robustin gang overhaul frankenstein's PR edition

[vcordie]

Bottom post of the previous page:

It is not like he can make it worse

You were wrong. You were so fucking wrong.

Let's just talk about a few things about new gangs (gangacoplyse)
A. it telegraphs the round type fucking IMMEDIATELY. there's zero paranoia whatsoever in this game of paranoia.
B. it removes core components of the game to jury rig its own fucking team deathmatch bullshit.
C. Vigilanties either die in the first 3 minutes because they spawn with no weapons, or become insanely overpowered. They don't respawn however.
D. Respawning is bad, mmkay. Just period. It encourages shit play from people and is just a way to make the team death match drag out longer. With endlessly respawning reinforcements, the vigilanties just get ground down till they no longer exist.
E. It's literally validhunter versus gangs the mode. TDM.
F. did I mention the validhunters can get admin mechs and admin guns like rocket launchers?
G. the mounted machine gun turret is prett yfucking cool, I'll give you that. Too bad it's a bit op and glitchy as all fuck right now
H. Do i even need to tell you why just turning the game into stupid pvp is a bad idea? Some of us are here for more interaction then just clicking on sprites to render them horizontal
I. I fucking hate you robustin
J. allowing gangs to respawn fucking defeats the purpose of having the shuttle autocall, now doesn't it? since it'll never reach that point thanks to reinforcements...meaning you'll constantly have a fucking stalemate.
H. speaking of stalemates, they somehow are even worse when everyone has high powered weapons that just blow any latejoiner away. Fucking 10/10 balance there.
K. Both servers voted that they hate this new version of gangs. Myself and a couple others personally leave for hte other server whenever its testmerged. When it's testmerged on both I just stop playing. that's how NOT FUN this bullshit is. IF i wanted Team Deathmatch I'd play colonial marines, except I wouldn't because colonial marines actually enforces a level of rp we don't
M. Speaking of rule enforcement, vigilantes don't fucking count as antags so if they get some collateral damage in with their stupidly op guns, they get bwoinked and potentially banned. For doing what they need to do. Fucking thanks, cunt.
N. My sodium levels are too goddamn high for this bullshit.
O. I would rather 24/7 wizard then this bullshit
P. I would rather 24/7 raging mages then this bullshit
Q. I would rather 24/7 BULLSHIT RAGING MAGES then this bullshit.
T. Truthfully, I'd rather dig my eyeballs out with a rusty spork then this bullshit.
U. The gangs can just drop a dom and a MG turret in the time it takes you to earn soap as a vigilante, which means this goddamn gamemode is totally fucking out of balance. The only relevant parties in gangs is other fucking gangs, because vigilanties wont have any fucking weapons to fight by the time the first dominator gets dropped.

[Kel]

he's dead, jim.

[vcordie]

I'm still mad.

[oranges]

Why did you do H twice and skip L?

[oranges]

Gang was brought back on a whim with no forethought besides "I had fun once with it."

Yes bring your fucking polls out if you want you know what I said is right.

Poll was unironically rigged by having two different "yes" options

I got permabanned for removing gang? I guess I missed the memo.

haha he lifted it

no balls

[Oldman Robustin]

Ive had more paranoia with vigilantes than I've had in all the other GW iterations combined. With GW you just sat around waiting to get penned or implanted and nobody had a reason to fuck with you, and you no reason to fuck with them because who gives a shit if their wall has some new graffiti on it.

I won't bother reading the rest but its clear some people have acquired the fantastic ability to understand every nuance of a mode from a couple rounds.

[kevinz000]

Vigilante is just forcing everyone to validhunt

[Oldman Robustin]

Nobody is forced to validhunt. You can sit on your ass just like any other round and do whatever you want.

Its the only viable version of no-sec gang war. Otherwise everyone's incentive on a station full of gangs with no security is to sit around and ask to be converted. You have absolutely no reason to fight the gangs since the "loyalists" are destined to lose.

Bringing back sec just means reducing the number of validhunters but giving them tasers, flashbangs, and access to infinite implants instead.

For a completely fresh approach to a mode it was absurd to shut it down within a few rounds of it actually working, while "accidentally" letting a bugged version run for 24 hours leading up to the working version getting its 2 hour debut before the PR was closed.

[Segmented]

It had a few balance issues that you definitely needed to look at, though I'm not sure if you didn't see them between the OOC spam of how much people hated new gangs, or if you just didn't agree. Vigi influence depended on you actually being robust (hint, most players aren't) or waiting half the round to buy some soap. This could have easily been solved by just giving them soap at the start and perhaps other nonstandard ways to gain influence. Perhaps linked to actually doing their job so there is at least some pretense of the station working normally? By either keeping their department clear of gang signs or somehow gaining influence when they do something related to their job (not even sure if that is possible). Security didn't have to be completely removed, we just needed to inform Security that Gang members were only valid if they had weapons visible or were actively harming other Space Station members. Tagging would be like a 5 minute brig sentence (Defacing Company property). We could even still have Vigilantes, as upset members of the Station who are annoyed that NT isn't doing anything about the gangs unless they are super obvious, and choose to take it into their own hands. Of course, they are still subject to the law so killing in public is a Bad Thing. Then we could have removed the Gang-removal effect of Mindshields and shifted it onto a Vigilante item, giving them and not Security the sole method of deconverting gang members.

[Oldman Robustin]

There is no more soap in the last commit that was tested, just proving my point that this idea was killed before most people even got to see its finished format (soap was changed to a rag that everyone got at roundstart, it was nonslip, vigi's got more baseline influence too).

The other ideas require changing our rules, which is virtually impossible and not really desirable.

[Luke Cox]

Might as well have tried it, gang literally could have not gotten worse. I feel bad for you, Oldman.

[lumipharon]

RIP, never even got to try the updated gang.

[Bombadil]

Welp if Joan's going to deny this entirely because Joan is a massive cunt who's sole goal is to make cuck cult unstoppable monsters. Might as well remove gang and cuck cult

[Oldman Robustin]

That meme is basically what inspired the current clockcult poll.

Which, while I love the fact we're finally getting a MODE poll, will ironically only solidify Joan's position while us of a chance to actually test my final, working product. I will either open a poll here or once MSO's first set of polls are done to give me some ammunition to fight off Joan's shittyness.

Players will almost never vote to remove a mode, just weigh it superlow and the occasional novelty will make up for the round's inherently terrible nature.

That puts Joan at 2/2 for suddenly killing a major feature PR of mine with no warning. Forum polls are the only way I've been able to I've been able to outmeme her in the past so who knows: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6476

[oranges]

why don't you just accept her decision because nothing can change it?

[Deitus]

i personally liked vigilante mode but coderbus circlejerk gonna do their thing i guess

[Oldman Robustin]

I accept decisions in fairly short order.

What I have a hard time with is watching my time go down the tube over and over on the basis of some maintainer's secret beliefs.

If player opinions were the basis of whether my PR lives or dies, then make a fucking server poll Ms. Maintainer + Headmin and let me know in advance what basis you're using to judge my PR, don't just leave a fucking bugged version up for 24 hours, then by the time you testmerge the functional version people are pissed at having a bugged version shoved down their throat all afternoon.

I don't care as much about being forced to obey the tyrannical rule of people who don't even play if they would just be fucking transparent about the requisites for merging/closing a PR. Same story with Engipoints. I got told 5 different things I needed to do to see a merge, or even a testmerge, then Joan pops out of nowhere and shuts it down.

Kor felt that you or Cheridan would reverse the closure but at this point this shit if he doesn't care enough to directly intervene I've moved on. I just want to make sure my next Gang PR doesn't suffer the same fate. The only hope I can cling to at this point is that PKP and MSO have started a new era where maintainers have to give some weight to player polls, I'd rather throw myself to the whims of the masses than subject myself to any more Coderbus memes.

[Kel]

updated op with the new gang pr

[BeeSting12]

why are we giving vigilantes deathsquad mechs

[ShadowDimentio]

Because mechs blow and are expensive and cool?

[Oldman Robustin]

It was a mistake for me to call an essentially reskinned Durand a Seraph. This is equipment being supplied by NT so I thought it fit the theme a little better since its the ultimate acquisition for a vigilante.

Instead I keep getting meme'd about it.

[BeeSting12]

i still don't think it's a good idea to give vigilantes mechs. also im pretty sure that moved faster than an actual durand

[FantasticFwoosh]

a gygax would be more appropriate, maybe with a non-lethal option. Speed over close to invunerability.