Summon mechs is dumb

[Cipher3]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Giving everyone overpowered items =/= balance

[miggles]

i really do fail to see how summon mechs is any more OP than summon magic or guns
the phazon is the only real issue IMO
all the other mechs are.. mechs, so the standard is set higher
when everyone is OP, nobody is OP

[ColonicAcid]

Giving everyone overpowered items =/= balance

wizard

balanced
wizard

balanced
wizard

balanced
wizard

balanced
wizard

balanced
wizard

balanced


these two words don't and should not go together at all

[Cipher3]

Well, if you're telling me an Odysseus can fight any kind of combat based mech or even a Ripley, then mmkay. Odysseus with its default set can literally only affect out-of-mech people. Same goes for the Firefighter, though I don't know if that spawns, and the Ripley is probably going to die if the other mechs have lethal equipment. And the station isn't OPinated, poor walls, poor AI. How is Security supposed to do anything about dozens of mechs? With summon guns I see them mass-confiscating anyone they can bring in. You can't even bring in an Odysseus because it's so fast. There's not balance among the players. It invalidates every competent job and secure location as soon as an assistant gets a Ripley because drills.

[ColonicAcid]

so?
in guns some people got tasers others got gyrojets


rng man
rng

[Tokiko2]

I dislike the spell.

Mechs provide great defense, most of the summoned mechs can barely scratch other mechs with their weapons and they do not have infinite power which means that many people choose to just sit around at a location to avoid running out of charge. This means that the mech rounds are really quiet compared to summon guns or summon magic.

Now, if the mechs had infinite charge, completely randomized equipment and weapons...

[TheTerbs]

everybody should get keys to a generic civilian mech at the beginning of the round

like cars

space cars

[Cipher3]

so?
in guns some people got tasers others got gyrojets


rng man
rng

A robust tazer can take down the gyrojet man then take the gyrojet. A robust gyrojet can blow a hole in the tazer man's chest. An Odysseus cannot swallow a Durand, a Durand can blow a hole in the Odysseus's chest.

I dislike the spell.

Mechs provide great defense, most of the summoned mechs can barely scratch other mechs with their weapons and they do not have infinite power which means that many people choose to just sit around at a location to avoid running out of charge. This means that the mech rounds are really quiet compared to summon guns or summon magic.

Now, if the mechs had infinite charge, completely randomized equipment and weapons...

This was my next point, actually. It doesn't create chaos so much as it does people that are much harder to kill and do their jobs way less.

[paprika]

I think it should be 3tc and the odys should come with dual lexorin syringe guns and the ripleys should have diamond drills but yeah it was fun while it lasted but it's going to ruin wizard rounds for a long time unless something is done about it considering it's going to be the choice for practically every wizard for weeks.

I'd like @RR to take a look at removing or at least tweaking it a bit. Summon melee is fun as fuck tho.

[ColonicAcid]

any wizard who uses summon anything is dumb

the griffing shits /will/ get killed and then they'll turn the weapons straight at you.
don't do it.
ever

[miggles]

i dont have anything to say
there is no response i can come up with to how horrible that post is

[ColonicAcid]

uhm. I swear to god miggles if you somehow say that "it doesn't matter it's fun!!!" i'll fucking wedgie you
it's pretty much true though? If we're talking about how effective at winning the round as a wizard is, then summon x is fucking shitty. You're depending on the crew to murder eachother. What if they don't? Oh look your whole plan just went to shit, now the crew has the best thing against you, physical bullets/mechs!

Depending on other people to do shit for you isn't how you're going to win unfortunately. The only person who you can count on is yourself in these situations. I dunno is Magic Missile, Jaunt and Ei Nath still retardly strong? Because if you didn't use to go this set up you were either trying to do some gimmick or being "funny" by spawning 5X guns.

[paprika]

I like how your grammar gets better the more you try to make a point, maybe you should always post like that CA

[ColonicAcid]

no fuck you i've written essays for like half my life now i can write how i ever i want

[NikNakFlak]

I agree with paprika (for once)
The other summon spells seem great because its mostly man to man and crazy chaos and stuff. Guns is well guns, killing and shit. Magic is magic, with people being turned into creatures, getting revived with healing staffs and tossed around, and shit like that. Melee is great because murderbone hand to hand style is classy. Mechs was the only thing I didn't like and getting it removed seems like a good idea. Keeping it as an admin button though right?

[Neerti]

Summon mechs can be made better by 1. blacklisting certain mechs and 2. making random mech weapons appear.

[Cipher3]

3. Removing it

[miggles]

actually going for your objectives hardcore is a fucking waste of a wizard slot
there is so much potential for fun as a wizard and you spend your points on nothing but MM/jaunt/ei nath/etc? no gimmicks? boring
good luck giving me a wedgie all the way from frome CA, i actually like fun

[ColonicAcid]

I like fun as well. But right now I wasn't talking about ~fun~. I was talking as a objective device it's not very good. Any wizard that is using it to achieve his goal /is/ dumb.

[paprika]

I'm still waiting for rob to comment on what he plans to do with this before I do anything to it, he's got more coder prowess than me and could probably balance it, whereas I'd just outright remove it or take out the phazon/etc.

[Remie Richards]

got more coder prowess than me

D'aww, Thanks!

Yeah seriously though, I'd remove Civillian Mechs which have little weaponry, remove the Phazon which is too "Antihuman" with it's Toxin/fire/brute punches,
Ensure each mech gets an "Anti mech" weapon (Mounted ion gun, or just one of the rocket pods), and give them all infinite battery so people don't camp around waiting for other's to run out of battery.

This ensures every mech granted has the ability to cause Chaos, the whole point of the "Summon X" series.

[paprika]

If you really do that wizards everywhere with their scyring orbs will cry tears of joy at the chaos. It'll also make it so people don't storm robo to recharge their mechs as well, making our friendly neighborhood robo mainers not cry themselves to sleep every time they hear 'wizard'.

[miggles]

I like fun as well. But right now I wasn't talking about ~fun~. I was talking as a objective device it's not very good. Any wizard that is using it to achieve his goal /is/ dumb.

yeah but no wizard actually does summon X as their main way to attempt to win
you either have 5x summon guns funzards or 1x summon X and then the other 4 slots are something normal and they use the chaos to hide themselves

[Remie Richards]

https://github.com/NTStation/NTstation13/pull/645

Goof has implemented the Balance I suggested.

[paprika]

>missile rack on the durand by default

bueno.

[420goslingboy69]

Can we just remove it? I'll say what I've been saying about mechs for years and years. They are slow and stun-proof. They are anti-ss13. The game is made about one shot stuns that completely stop a huge, fucking powerful guy. An assistant with a taser can stop a heavily armed Nuclear operative. That's the point of this game. The fact that anyone can stop anyone. Now, mechs are, for the most part, slow, which goes against the feeling of SS13. They also have no way to be stunned, which also goes against the feeling of ss13. Mechs don't sow chaos because they aren't huge fucking glass cannons like the crew are. They are slow, immobile, pieces of metal with huge guns attached to them. Despite the fact that mechs have huge fucking killing potential, you'll see most mech rounds to be much more quiet then a summon magic round or a summon guns round because of how slow they are and the power cell. The reason summon magic and summon guns works is because when you kill another player, you get their shit. You are continuously recycling what you have until you find the loadout you like (moreso with guns). Summon mechs is you get stuck with one good or bad mech and thats all you get. You'll never get a better one or a shittier one. It's fucking boring. There is zero progression.

[Incomptinence]

No way to be stunned doesn't really matter if everyone and their mother gets a mech.

[420goslingboy69]

No way to be stunned doesn't really matter if everyone and their mother gets a mech.

reading comprehension

[ThoughtSynapsis]

Though I don't have Napkins hatred of mechs, I do agree they tend not to be as chaotic, Which is the point of the spell in the first place. A crewmen in a mech would be far more concerned about keeping his Phazon alive then hunting either the crew or the wizard.