/tg/Station 13

> I'd say the rules are both verbose, but also too vague.

This is 100% intentional, there are so many intricacies and social "valves" that we simply cant place in the rules to satiate the RAW types and even moreso expect people to know every rule written. We have policy discussion for that very ...

i laughed you are a vibe and im here for it

im really not vibing with the "just think like X" posts im not really sure what you mean. I do not need to think about how the banned people feel because they are second class to the PLAYERS who are here now who are trying to balance between appreciating the pop and having to deal with potential ...

I wasn't addressing you specifically cobby I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was talking more to the OP. I'm not actually in support of this, I think the paths to rejoining are very plainly laid out and I never want to see anyone who has been legitimately blacklisted just arbitrarily ...

This isnt unique to the Atmos default configuration setup when we look at the other rules, or even rule 4 itself in other situations. Rule 4 prevents preemptively hindering antags which would include doing something (in this case tweaking the pipe setup) specifically to hinder the AI. There being a ...

The reason why it matters is because the long term solution of curating the playerbase to be of quality is more important than the short term allegedly low amount of pop from people who, again, cannot be bothered to apologize for the allegedly benign actions you seem to think they were doing ...

"Everything to gain and nothing to lose" is a bit of a reach if you agree they deserved the ban. If they wanted to come here on good terms they would appeal, if they were given a free pass to basically grief again without having to evade they would most certainly take on the opportunity, and I dont ...

this isnt even a problem anymore with latejoin borgs, i think the ruling never caught up with the codebase unless you specifically want to protect the ability to T0 flood to distro which no one would do anyways if theyre trying to win.

Rule 4 already covers preemptively BTFOing antags, which covers ...

From the code side I dont think there is really any sort of "newbie" job, but there are "veteran" jobs and those tend to be hour locked anyways particularly heads and AI.

If you need a tutorial for arrow keys and stuff yeahhhhh ok assistant is good for that because theres no job associated ...

things

Yeah I dont necessarily think a pop cap is the smoking gun to this issue either, I think the final paragraph of my last last post summed up the root of the issue and arguably the real solution to this which seems to be easier said than done: ban the problem.

Id also not necessarily ...

Of course, I guess I would have expected an (single) option that expresses you like the spirit of the change, just not the change itself. To me that would make the poll more "fair" I guess for those that simply dont know what options are available, without being expected to explain that in the free ...

Whats the realistic end goal for people who want this to be a code solution?

Like yeah coders want to be able to just "make it work" but particularly with shuttles and other things that touch turfs, there is really only so much we can fit in a single Z level, and even less that doesnt touch the ...

The assistant cap being polled in the way that it is seems like its the only option to tackle the root issue compared to a simple pop cap which at least from a "can you do it" aspect is definitely on the table seems a bit strange.

Naturally the poll will be implied as a "this or nothing ...

Im adamantly against xeno-limbs making you non-human, i think it's taking the thread intent too far? What i got from the intent is that Ezel wants to make so that if you have cat infusions/fox infusions/shark infusions which VISIBLY gives you a tail and/or ears ai can ignore you as you're no ...

I'd say sprite and examine only, if it's covered then ai has to assume humanity until proven non-human since that's what we already do. AI isn't forced to species check people right now and shouldn't in the future. If that's what the policy thread is about then I'm against forcing players to check ...

Yeah that PR basically did the reverse of what it claimed to do.....

I really miss the abillity to poison this way, both as traitor and also as rogue ai.

You at least have to pull the medibot and stand still (?) vs getting ur omnizine injection and running off. Post-wounds Id say these guys ...

Im getting hung up on the fact this already happens (lol) in a much more dynamic way, via the HOP, and Im confused why the ask is to change the config to carve out their capabilities further vs. finding a way to tackle it (likely via code) as to why hops or even heads (if we gave them the capability ...

I agree that there needs to be a way ingame to sift thru the argument so there is an objective standard simply because I dont like that there could be variation in what someone determines as visible. Is it sprite only? Examine text? What if its partially covered via clothes and a new AI player ...

Preslotting on the config end for the idea that something goes awry during the course of a shift seems odd when theres a job explicitly built for that.

I cant speak to the first sentence because I largely agree, but if they both have predisposed access and both have the job description to make meds ...

Its not exactly right to say Chemistry has 3 dispensers for 2 job slots because dispensers are not exclusive to the job slot of Chemistry, and if all chemists are expected to use the plumbing area its gonna get messy.

This isnt a for-profit business, the idea the community has to "stay ahead" or trailblaze the "industry" seems a bit odd.

More people for sure use Discord than the forums, but I think Discord conversations about these topics are way harder to follow and invite less thought.

Sorry, I was saying put the changelog portions as the discord bot since I think most ppl care about the results instead of the entire ...

SS14 has a steam store page which is how most people look for games now, and even if youre sick and use prime gaming/ epic games/origin/ubisoft/etc. all of those are insanely more popular than BYOND of all things. That alone puts us in the category of you have to be looking for ss13 to find it ...

Whats more realistic, a player reading the github changelog or a player reading the forum?

Funny enough youre better off putting those as a bot in a discord channel or something if you think people cared enough, otherwise id just assume let people navigate the github which in turn steps them into ...

someone played divinity 2

i smiled

no one ever replied to this so ill say I think thermal pistols are in the place WT used to fill, and WTs used to just be straight upgrades because the ammo mechanic is/was nutty. These were supposed to be relative to the WT (worse obv cuz the point was the nerf), but even then they are still better ...

ts got a lot of potential, but I think people are hesitant to depend upon cargotechs because they might be unreliable and end up having their package sit in cargo all round.

It's interesting because every other department that does this (medical, engineering, science although thats just upgrades ...

To me paramedics have no business having access to begin with, it should be "earned" through socializing or at the very least be built through rapport with the heads of each department versus just getting basic access everywhere. Will it make the job harder? Sure. It doesnt mean theyre owed access ...

oh, in which case truth nuke

-Paramedic has obvious access issues symptomatic in the application of interdepartmental access outside of emergency situations. Causes extradepartmental territory despondency

Is this really a negative? Is it bad that you have to ask the AI or someone from the department to be let into an area ...

If someone fucks up and says something stupid that's clearly just a poorly advised joke, they get a slap on the wrist and are told not to do it anymore. If someone comes in and starts talking about how much they hate Jews or Romani or black people, I'm going to ban them, not out of some moral ...

If you’re out of the shuttle you gotta know you are subject to the whims of the current events. The only fix to this is to have multiple spawns and even then isn’t a perfect fit.

The rule is meant to stop ppl specifically plucking ppl out of spawn because they’re easy not a blanket protection for X ...

On the internet we are all equal, so the idea that certain things get a pass because this group happens to be a majority in your particular country is incredibly ignorant. All groups, including majority ones in your local area, should be covered (for instance white and male and even stra*ghts)

At ...

Fermichem also made it so those meds do NOT have ANY side effects at pure purity iirc.

Its a way Id want to go but its not exactly something im vehement enough to force people to go thru live-testing on to find the good balance for at the moment.

Ideally, at a high level, the chem itself doesnt do ...

Not a fan of anything that makes changelings another flavor of ebow esword traitor of old.

We have sling, we have heretic, we have plenty of ambush with their goober weapons meme roles.

Changeling should be focused on abusing the fact you can be anyone on the station and should be a tough role ...

Im ok with the activity lasting longer at the start (aka you dont know what ur doing in the minigame) if the actual activity is more palpable for both parties.

If its a minigame it would be incredibly silly to ask people to not only focus on the minigame but have to slot in different items. We could retain the tools and make the surgeon kit, be it the medical variant or the ghetto variant, craftable if the concern is things like sawing -people- shotguns or ...

I would prefer "steps" as we know it be removed entirely and instead you just have a surgery bag (with a ghetto version being available for crafting/disassembling).

I havent played many medical minigame-esque games for the frame of reference so you'd have to explain it better, but my ideal state ...

your post

I mean I understand the fear but like we have people who get replaced already and their stand in doesnt diddle space kids or whatever. Your situation is an anomaly and one not exclusive to your character being offered to ghosts. A simple voice changer could largely replicate that ...

Metagaming or shoehorning your weird fantasies on people not consenting to it (IE ghosts who are forced to turn off spectator ears specifically to avoid you) is absolutely clear cut being a dick.

All of the rules fall under rule 1 so to use that as an example here is really weird and besides the ...

I can understand intentionally sandbagging your team by passively resisting as a nono, but you also have to keep in mind the antagonist doesnt necessarily have the full information to deduce "Someone needs to help me convert at dorms" means THEY need to immediately go to dorms or if the other guys ...

The suicide verb is generally considered an IC action. Calling it OOC is like arguing that using the say verb to avoid being converted successfully is an OOC action.

It can only be used while alive and while the appropriate set of IC restrictions are met.

It's pretty much a fancy emote at this ...

i think doing ooc actions like ghosting or suiciding via verb are pretty clear cut actions of misuse. Both indicate you do not want to play the game anymore, they are not meant to be used as a get out card for IC denial.

This is consistent with the policy that AIs cannot suicide verb to avoid ...

pretty much. if it becomes an issue, it needs to be handled as rule 1, not some special clause buried in the rules that say it's okay when x or y criteria is met.

The typebaiting policy is pretty restrictive to typebaiting in the headmin ruling page though, the policy needs to be expanded on ...

Do people actually do this?

I mean if they happen upon your body maybe, but if john doe sees me murder via ghost im not really going to actively look for his body. I absolutely would if the ruling is he can out me immediately as he respawns.

the IC parallel argument doesnt really hold because the idea that I would take my full focus away from someone potentially suspicious is absurd, especially when looking at a handheld object or something.

If youre using mechanics of the OOC game such as a window popup that takes focus from the game ...

Which is again no different than seeing a murder of someone while youre invisible.

Just because the murderer can tell that youre watching him means that you get to kill him when you respawn.

The only argument I can think of for this is well the murderer could also kill you when you revive, but you ...

Holoparas were used regularly and I mean you’d have people observe for the role regularly, and they are a pain to fight because they are simple mobs so once they do enough damage to slow you down it’s gg. Silicons had no way to stop it because they could just break doors or straight up tp you. I don ...

You still forget what you saw as a ghost whether you’re visible or not, your visibility shouldn’t impact how you retain info.

You can see a murder just the same without summon ghosts, the only difference is the murderer can ahelp you more easily if you act on that since they knew your presence.

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