Nuke Shuttle Discovery Clarification

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:52 am #218117

Historically, it has been against the rules to go out into space with intent to find the nuke ops shuttle. This made sense, considering that in early revisions the op shuttle was always in the same place.
However, advances in the game now let you move the shuttle to a number of different locations, and the shuttle is protected by powerful turrets that can shoot you off screen.

The turrets were explicitly added as a gameplay-side solution to the previous rules-side solution. However, there's still a lot of confusion about the legality of looking for the shuttle, even among admins, with many of them still considering it an offense.

Personally I think it's a dinosaur of a rule that should no longer be enforced. However if it is going to be enforced then the turrets should get removed as the shuttle is being protected by admins instead. Either way the muddy waters here need to get cleared.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:02 am #218120

Clearly the solution here is to make the turrets shoot bullets that ban you.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:20 am #218122

If a group of terrorists is boarding the station, it makes sense to try and find how they got there. I'm for removing the rule.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:40 am #218129

The shuttle may be moved to a variety of locatiosn, but as far as I know these locations are still the same between rounds.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:59 am #218134

I think it should still be considered metagaming if they search for the shuttle without knowledge that there are nuke operatives on the station.

Once it's already confirmed though, it should be free game.

Screemonster · Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:01 am

Sligneris wrote:I think it should still be considered metagaming if they search for the shuttle without knowledge that there are nuke operatives on the station.

Once it's already confirmed though, it should be free game.

basically the "may not pre-emptively search for traitors" that every other antag gets then

Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:05 am

Having 5 people immediately fly off into space whenever ops are confirmed so they can cheese the turrets, space the nuke and ruin the round while the ops are still fighting for the disk has consistently shown to be the most boring shit

ShadowDimentio · Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:12 am

The turrets kill you in like 3 hits, how do you even cheese them

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:10 pm #218168

If I recall correctly you can use displaced dense objects (like girders and computer frames) as a bullet shield to creep up on the turrets.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:35 pm #218177

ops shuttle walls/doors should be indestructible again so this rule can be removed.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:20 pm #218239

Alternatively, ops can git gud

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:56 pm #218254

Luke Cox wrote:Alternatively, ops can git gud

ohw yeah, because having to leave someone to guard the shuttle the entire time is so exiting for gameplay

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:08 pm #218263

CPTANT wrote:ops shuttle walls/doors should be indestructible again so this rule can be removed.

Post by **oranges** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:29 pm #218300

the rule was papering over cracks in the code, and we can't really remove it until either the turrets are properly deadly or the walls are indestructible again.

Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:33 pm

Saegrimr wrote:
CPTANT wrote:ops shuttle walls/doors should be indestructible again so this rule can be removed.

do this please

Shaps wrote:Having 5 people immediately fly off into space whenever ops are confirmed so they can cheese the turrets, space the nuke and ruin the round while the ops are still fighting for the disk has consistently shown to be the most boring shit

also this. it absolutely ruins the round, extremely shitty thing to do. i say keep enforcing the rule unless all the ops are dead/the ops lead you there/we update the shuttle to have unbreakable walls.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:46 pm #218308

How about the following - the syndicate shuttle walls are made immune to welding, but can still be broken by explosives, so that you can still break into the shuttle with enough prep work.

That way, you need multiple things: EVA suit, ability to maneuver in space, a location of the shuttle, a cover from the turrets, and a bomb to destroy the shuttle walls. Making "backdooring" a strategy possible to pull off, but unlikely to happen on regular basis.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:46 pm #218310

oranges wrote:the rule was papering over cracks in the code, and we can't really remove it until either the turrets are properly deadly or the walls are indestructible again.

The former is by far the more preferable option of the two. If turrets are made un-cheeseable and you survive them, you deserve to win.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:30 am #218350

I've found it by pinpointer after disk got stolen and I've never run in to trouble after explaining i used a pinpointer.

Isane · Post by **Isane** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:19 am #218360

That's because you're using the pinpointer for its intended purpose. Circling the station as soon as Ops are shouted over comms to check the 6 or so places the shuttle might be is shit, that's what needs to be prevented here.

KAP · Post by **KAP** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:58 am #218416

I've almost been hit by the shuttle a few times as CE moving to solars (actually I think I've been hit once too).

I think the rule ought to be removed, because if I have a chance to get hit by the shuttle with no warning and killed instantly, then the ops deserve to get shit on with no warning as well.

Random chance can be a bitch, but the game isn't the same if these things can't happen.

Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:01 am

KAP wrote:I've almost been hit by the shuttle a few times as CE moving to solars (actually I think I've been hit once too).

I think the rule ought to be removed, because if I have a chance to get hit by the shuttle with no warning and killed instantly, then the ops deserve to get shit on with no warning as well.

Random chance can be a bitch, but the game isn't the same if these things can't happen.

Play more until you see a handful of rounds where some chucklefuck yoinks the nuke and you're sitting in deadchat for an hour then come back to this thread

Incomptinence · Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:44 am

If turrets are too easy to game give it temporary lifespan carp spawners or some shit. Get in the fight cayenne!

If watching the shuttle is too dull for a player to do an entire round introduce roles that you can ghost out of (or if you idle) then some other spirit can crawl on in or something.
Step near the shuttle ghost zips into the warborg or whatever that can only draw power from the shuttle and blows your face off.

Make shuttle placement more free form don't let it ram but if it's not going to hit shit let it go in.

Put super nasty defensive tricks on the ops menu for stupid low prices like 1 TC for shuttle exclusive super nasty shit like I dunno a shuttle placable camouflaged pop turret or some shit. Shuttle mines, shuttle bees, sending a fake shuttle with defences and nothing else in it to the station. Did the ops have spare change? Feeling lucky?

Make it a warship/deathtrap not irrelevant due to policy. THIS EXACT SAME POLICY EXISTED WITH INVULNERABLE WALLS AND SHUTTERS!
That policy has always been a crying shame you might as well be spawning nukes into space fully suited. For all the interaction the shuttle has under current rules it might as well be the invisible sun.

Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:55 am

Because, again, people completely sidestepping the conflict in the game by just stealing the nuke is incredibly boring and cheesy

Incomptinence · Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:03 am

Put conflict at that point is what I am saying.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:49 pm #218506

Shaps wrote:Having 5 people immediately fly off into space whenever ops are confirmed so they can cheese the turrets, space the nuke and ruin the round while the ops are still fighting for the disk has consistently shown to be the most boring shit

Could have the nuke locked away behind some shutters that only ops can open. Plus more people fucking off to find the ship means less people on the station to defend whoever's carrying the disk

Slettal · Post by **Slettal** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:35 pm #218541

Why is it so important for you to be allowed to raid the shuttle?

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:21 pm #218646

Slettal wrote:Why is it so important for you to be allowed to raid the shuttle?

Valids, duh.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:16 am #218945

Counterpoint: It is also thoroughly boring for everyone to just sit around twiddling their thumbs once it is confirmed the captain is dead. If this were a more RP-based server this is where people would coordinate escapes to mining, but no one really does that.

One code-based idea is possibly to have a remote camera and/or remote control for the shuttle. so that the ops can at least get an idea of what's going on. We have both camera bugs and remotes already in the codebase so I can't imagine it would be that difficult.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:36 am #218964

we could always give it a cloaking device

TheColdTurtle · Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:42 am

What? Jesus christ goof. A fucking cloaking device? You do know that someone will HAVE to code that, and if it is coded then how the fuck could ANYONE see it? Plus the sheer amount of bugs, if someone goes on solars they would die instantly without knowing what the fuck is going on. And you wont fix it saying that 'ha dude just dodge the invisible shuttle git gud lol'.

Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:16 am

actually a cloaking device sounds neat

420goslingboy69 · Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:27 pm

It's all free-game as long as it makes sense ICly.
I've hit nuke ops shuttles while just free-floating off into space, trying to actually fuck off into space, not knowing about ops.

If the ops want to leave their most valuable possession outside of their reach (the nuke) and in their shuttle, then let them stupidly do that. In my days we brought the nuke onboard always.

Post by **Cobby** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:57 pm #219272

TheColdTurtle wrote:What? Jesus christ goof. A fucking cloaking device? You do know that someone will HAVE to code that, and if it is coded then how the fuck could ANYONE see it? Plus the sheer amount of bugs, if someone goes on solars they would die instantly without knowing what the fuck is going on. And you wont fix it saying that 'ha dude just dodge the invisible shuttle git gud lol'.

HAHAHAHAHAHA How the fuck is the nuke ops shuttle real hahahahahhaa

just walk away from the solars

close your cablecoils hahahahahahaha

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:13 pm #219276

I WAS JUST FLYING THROUGH PREDETERMINED POINTS IN SPACE FOR NO REASON AND I WAS GRIEF KILLED BY INVISIBLE SYNDICATES FOR NO REASON I AWAIT MY APOLOGY AND FOR ALL CODERS AND PLAYERS INVOLVED TO BE BANNED

also cloaking device sounds p cool

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:00 am #219392

As long as the shuttle can only be sent to those 6 locations, the rule must stand. The turrets can 3-shot you, true, but lavaland bosses can do that too and are killed constantly all the same even without cheesing them, and it's worth noting that the kind of players who go looking for the op shuttle are also those more likely to cheese stuff. Removing the rule will force ops to take the nuke onboard, this is a sure way to lose and will result in a steady drop in ops win rates. Go ahead and test it if you want, you'll see that this is what will happen.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:44 pm #219428

Sligneris wrote:How about the following - the syndicate shuttle walls are made immune to welding, but can still be broken by explosives, so that you can still break into the shuttle with enough prep work.

I still think this and a strong turret buff would be solution enough.

yackemflam · Post by **yackemflam** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:10 am #219593

How to fuck over ops every time if this is put in.

Step 1: make 6 maxcaps if you haven't done so by the time ops get on the station (seriously what are you doing?)
Step 2: grab a bag, a suicided body ( a monkey works too), and 7 signalers.
Step 3: put the signalers on the bombs
Step 4: put the bombs in the bag
Step 5: put the bag on the body
Step 6: get a hard suit or Eva suit
Step 7: find the shuttle
Step 8: get to the aft part of the shuttle off screen so you don't get shot
Step 9: drift the body to the shuttle while off screen and wait like 20 seconds
Step 10:
*BEEP BEEP*
*BEEP BEEP*
*BEEP BEEP*
*BEEP BEEP*
*BEEP BEEP*
*BEEP BEEP*
Step 11: get the nuke and space it if it is not borked

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:31 am #219596

Not everyone makes six maxcaps roundstart and responds to every conflict with bombs right away, yackemflam. If it becomes less such a problem, walld could be made immune to explosions too.