[???] Amelius - Deleting an antagonist

[Amelius]

Byond account and character name: Amelius - revenant

Admin in question: Unknown

Time incident occured: Thurs. Aug 20, 2015, round ending 7 PMish

Detailed summary:

I spawned as a revenant in a malf round fairly early on. Later in the round, after some absorbing of the paltry few corpses I could muster, I decided to try out that fancy newly unlocked and added malfunction ability to see what it could do. The AI, coincidentally, went Delta, minutes later, thus, I took the opportunity to venture over to the AI core, and harass it with malfunction.

Regardless, after spamming malfunction on the AI core for a minute or so, I was deleted. No voice in the head was provided to tell me to leave the AI alone, no answer to my adminhelp immediately afterward was provided, and no one seemed, overall, to give a rat's ass, despite the fact that an admin just intercessed on behalf of an antagonist to save another. An equivalent would be killing a blob as a traitor in one of those meme rounds, or killing a wizard as any other single antagonist, and them spontaneously being deleted with no explanation.

Insofar I know, all antagonists are exempt from rule 0 and all solo antagonists are allowed to divert or even act contrary to their own objectives (i.e. murderboning with a 'steal your own jumpsuit' and 'escape alive' objective), and always have been (excluding the short period of time with SoS' policy). Revenants do not have a special snowflake antag status, at least on the wiki and from what I've heard, that states that you aren't permitted to act contrary to your objectives (which were to kill the dead Chaplain and steal some essence) according to the wiki, and I didn't even have an objective analogous to 'remain undetected' or anything.

[Scones]

Are you sure you were deleted instead of just falling prey to one of the many bugs involving revenant deaths?

[Amelius]

Are you sure you were deleted instead of just falling prey to one of the many bugs involving revenant deaths?

There was nothing in my chatlog. I just spontaneously... died. It was weird. There was nothing to fall prey to, given I was EMPing the room. OOC seemed to think I was deleted post-round, so that's what I assumed. Boy, I'd feel like an idiot if it was just a bug or I ran out of energy, but I was monitoring the latter fairly closely so I don't think so.

Of notice though, I don't think I left ectoplasm, and the other revenant 'died' immediately afterward as well, so I think the admins struck us both down.

The AI also mentioned that his prayers must have been answered or something to that extent. I think he adminhelped or prayed.

[TechnoAlchemist]

I deleted you, apologies for the sudden removal from the round.

The reason you were deleted is because revenants are a side antagonist and although they are exempt from most of the rules, I put the experience of the person playing the malfunctioning AI in front of you, the multiple emp bursts you used to harass the AI disabled half of its cyborgs, and turned off its APC during the siege on the core. Because of this the AI couldn't even prevent the blowing of its Borgs as they were black screened without power.

This is especially problematic because the AI has no protection against revenants.


These features of course do not lie on you, the frequency that revenants show up is ridiculous, and their ability to fuck with other people's rounds is much too significant for what they are.

If it were anything but malf I would have gotten you back in the round, but I had my hands full with multiple admin helps at the time.

Regardless the round ended something like 60 seconds later.

Just bwoinking you would have been better but in my urgency I chose to delete you, and I really am sorry for that.

[Amelius]

It's OK. Primarily, I just wanted an explanation.

That said, I personally feel that it's not apt to interrupt an antag, whether fair or not, aside from the typical ERT/nuke op/ghostbuster/etc. squads to speed along/slow down a round, simply because this is an unfinished game built on uneven gameplay. If abusing obvious design oversights is deletable, then other equivalent situations should have resulted in the very same action, for instance, when macrobombs were added briefly, people started spamming them every traitor round and exploding most of the station at roundstart. Yes, it sucked, but I don't recall a single case of a traitor with one spontaneously being deleted because they were doing something literally uncounterable and gibbing/killing several people each time.

Basically, shit happens. That said, that is just my opinion. I know plenty of people would disagree with me, yourself included.

[Jacquerel]

How could you prevent macrobomb detonations via deletion when by definition, the bombs only activate when you have died? By the time someone has macrobombed the station they are past the point of deletion. They've already fucked it up.
You however were actively ruining another antagonist's round, and could easily be stopped from making it worse by being removed from it. Not that it helped the AI, who you had already doomed.

Revenants are still a feature in development, and if someone is using them in a way that actively destroys other rounds and will almost certainly be patched out later, it is definitely an admin's job to intervene.

[oranges]

I'm sorry but why are admins intefering with antags again?

[Stickymayhem]

It's the round versus one single person.

Personally I think shit can just happen but I'll back any admin who tries to save a round for the majority rather than one guy ruining everything.

It was basically a malf round that got ruined by an unintentional feature (Which will probably get fixed at some point) of a random antagonist. It's a major balance problem and they do come up.

I probably would have let it happen under the basis that it would have been something interesting but if it happened again I'd definitely intervene.

I'm sorry but why are admins intefering with antags again?

Admins interfere with anyone and everyone if needed. Antags aren't arbitrarily off the table. If the intentions are good there's no reason not to. 95% of the time this results in assisting antags with neat gubbins and telecrystal trades and shit. Sometimes it means this.

[Scones]

MSO the fixed the absurd revenant spawn rate (They were more common than carp waves) last night so hopefully this won't happen again

[Amelius]

How could you prevent macrobomb detonations via deletion when by definition, the bombs only activate when you have died? By the time someone has macrobombed the station they are past the point of deletion..

When Macrobombs were added, people were triggering them at roundstart WHILE THEY WERE ALIVE, typically while surrounded by several people who were promptly [uncounterably] gibbed. That was why they were removed promptly, and why DA/tator rounds were so shitty for a week or two until they were removed.

The analogous situation would be deleting the traitor because he was going to 'abuse a WIP piece of equipment in an uncounterable way'.

[Jacquerel]

Did they trigger them and survive?
You weren't deleted pre-emptively, you were deleted during the act.

The act of detonating a macrobomb is not an ongoing process, you blow up and then you are dead.
You can't detect that pre-emptively as an admin until the detonation has happened.

You weren't deleted because you were going to abuse an un-counterable feature, but because you already had and were still doing so, and the admin needed to quickly stop that so they could attempt to salvage the situation somewhat.
This doesn't work in the case of a suicide bomb, which goes from "nothing has happened" to "it's happened" immediately, and also deletes the traitor automatically in the process.

[Saegrimr]

People seem to be missing the point where Techno made a choice in a situation where time was a factor, and acknowledged he made a poor choice and apologized.

[ThanatosRa]

People seem to be missing the point where Techno made a choice in a situation where time was a factor, and acknowledged he made a poor choice and apologized.

Seems to be the state of the server that the moment, the NANOSECOND an admin makes a mistake "DEADMIN DEADMIN! LYNCH HE!"

[Amelius]

People seem to be missing the point where Techno made a choice in a situation where time was a factor, and acknowledged he made a poor choice and apologized.

Seems to be the state of the server that the moment, the NANOSECOND an admin makes a mistake "DEADMIN DEADMIN! LYNCH HE!"

I think you missed the point of my posts. I even said that 'it's OK'. I never said 'deadmin' or anything like that.

I simply wanted an explanation since it wasn't answered IG, aside from conjecture in OOC. Furthermore, I offered my opinion and an argument that might support it. If this isn't the place to do it, where is?

I did not scorn him either.

[ThanatosRa]

People seem to be missing the point where Techno made a choice in a situation where time was a factor, and acknowledged he made a poor choice and apologized.

Seems to be the state of the server that the moment, the NANOSECOND an admin makes a mistake "DEADMIN DEADMIN! LYNCH HE!"

I think you missed the point of my posts. I even said that 'it's OK'. I never said 'deadmin' or anything like that.

I simply wanted an explanation since it wasn't answered IG, aside from conjecture in OOC. Furthermore, I offered my opinion and an argument that might support it. If this isn't the place to do it, where is?

I did not scorn him either.

I didn't mean you specifically, I mean in general. Honestly, Your reasonable attitude regardless of salt is so refreshing I could die.

I mean holy crap dude, I like you already. And I hate everyone here despite how nice friendly and cordial I am. I still love this community.

[Fr05tByt3]

People seem to be missing the point where Techno made a choice in a situation where time was a factor, and acknowledged he made a poor choice and apologized.

Seems to be the state of the server that the moment, the NANOSECOND an admin makes a mistake "DEADMIN DEADMIN! LYNCH HE!"

I think you missed the point of my posts. I even said that 'it's OK'. I never said 'deadmin' or anything like that.

I simply wanted an explanation since it wasn't answered IG, aside from conjecture in OOC. Furthermore, I offered my opinion and an argument that might support it. If this isn't the place to do it, where is?

I did not scorn him either.

I think Amelius should get an antag token or a antag spawn or something for this.

[Amelius]

I didn't mean you specifically, I mean in general. Honestly, Your reasonable attitude regardless of salt is so refreshing I could die.

I mean holy crap dude, I like you already. And I hate everyone here despite how nice friendly and cordial I am. I still love this community.

Aww, I'm flattered, but

Spoiler:

'dude' is inaccurate.

I think Amelius should get an antag token or a antag spawn or something for this.

As Nik humorously pointed out ingame, doing so would most likely invoke a round-ending murderboner unless it's shadowling, bleb, or malf, so, while I'd appreciate it, I'm not really expecting or demanding recompense in any sense, especially since I was deleted as a side antagonist with ~60 seconds before round end, so I didn't miss out on much in the first place.

[ThanatosRa]

words

Where I'm from on the east coast dude is a unisex term. Deal with it.