QoL for atmos goop

[Likteer]

A "design document"
More of "ideasguy-ing as an excuse to make this" than "making this as an excuse to ideasguy".

[Likteer]

fixed the link

and I just remembered the ideas forum exists

[TheFinalPotato]

I kind of like how the foampack feels... significant? you know, like suiting up to go deal with something. I'd honestly prefer we make it more impactful, tho I'm not 100% sure on what your issues with it are so I have a hard time coming up with suggestions.

[Cobby]

its specifically designed to not be available at all times, and a good AT makes for a bad saboteur so I think there is some concerns about being able to easily isolate/fix a mess like that.

[Likteer]

Thing is: it is fast & easy to just scrap the atmos suit and build a civilian MODsuit.
And that's probably the case with A LOT of things you can get an alternative module version of.
You could ofc rush to make THAT more tedious, but maybe stop & think if we really do have to make everything tedious.

[TheFinalPotato]

I do not really follow what you're getting at

[Jacquerel]

I think what they are saying is that the atmos modsuit has what feels like significant slowdown on it, but that's attached to the suit and not the module so you can just put the module on a faster suit which feels odd for an atmospherics technician when they have a branded one they won't ever use for firefighting because of how slow it is

[TheFinalPotato]

ah yeah that's weird

[NecromancerAnne]

The atmos suit being a bit faster does sound like a good way to give it some relevance over the engineering suit, which is in every way a strictly better suit because it has shockproofing, and temp regulators can provide atmospheric protections if that's what you want.

[Turbonerd]

Maybe the module could be an innate property of the atmos modsuit and not be available on other modsuits.

[Likteer]

Maybe the module could be an innate property of the atmos modsuit and not be available on other modsuits.

Me: There are ways to go around tedium. Not exploits but pretty boring (and probably the case for a lot of other useful non-combat modules).
We could of course remove this workaround but maybe we shouldn't be so bent on making such stuff tedious in the first place, MODsuit or not.

You: What if we removed the workaround.


The equipment in question IS used (MODsuit still being much more common) but mainly for technicians protecting themselves during their experiments. It's conveniently located on-site, where walking around with it or discarding it is less of a problem.

Now, we can blame that on them lazy, good-for-nothing atmospheric technician players who are only in it for the fun & rewarding stuff*
...or see that being a good samaritan here is hard for all the wrong reasons.

*I don't even play atmos tech

[Likteer]

I'll try to start over & be all serious.

First, I took interest in the firefighting backpack, noted it's usefulness, observed & tried to guess why people didn't use them outside the department.
I made a PR that added the existing resin mister module to the roundstart suit. Tried to show it off a bit to people.

Boiling down what people that disagree with me say to "we don't need better equipment, we need better players" is oversimplifying, though I swear it's not disingenuous.
So I tried being "the better player". I took the suit when others wouldn't and used it to good effect.
As hard as it is to convey, it really was a commitment. I made the "love goop" bit out of this, but during these rounds I REALLY didn't have much fun.
At the same time, I was competing for limited equipment, which people could use even if just inside atmospherics.
Felt bad taking the thing and even had some minor conflicts over it.

I tried going without it, but immediately noticed how needed a tool of this kind actually is.
Not just when someone speedruns the best bomb possible or plasmafloods on LRP, but through more random events & side-effects of things happening in the game.

I dislike playing optimally. Only a bit after feedback to the "design document" I started scrounging for ways to make it work without changes.
And civilian MODsuit did work. Rushing to convert the atmos one was easy, but felt even worse than just stealing it.
Showcasing that solution to people also didn't click.

I finished thinking about this by exploring alternatives I have used before (earlier I got someone to show me the gas reaction for atmos resin too). Basic atmospherics without changing job from station egineer: space heaters, cans of air, air alarm modes + metal foam, RCD & manual construction.
All were insufficient to keep people comfortable.
The most effective tools solutions were hiding/walling off broken areas, disabling fire-alarms, sweeping debris under potted plants and placing floodlights on fullbright.

[iansdoor]

Lord forbid, you fill it with someone that isn't water. Then the backpack is unusable. I should make a bug report to empty the backpack.

Atmos resin, advanced firefighting foam and all the tools have major drawbacks in either consumption or the byproduct. unclickable floors, random short stops and blockable movement.
Halon usage is nice for the goop spreading, but there is no good way to dispense the gas in a meaningful way to fight multiZ fires.
Halon making atmos resin welds vents/scrubbers, which turned make a decent clutch gas to save a SM to SM will singularity everytime because of foam.

If you want my suggestion, I feel like you should be able to beat the crud off vents/scrubbers, don't allow atmos resin to close them up OR remove the unclick plasma residue that comes from advanced firefighting and replace with salt piles. The last one is literally how you stop metal fires, by pouring sand and salt upon it.

[Turbonerd]

Lord forbid, you fill it with someone that isn't water. Then the backpack is unusable. I should make a bug report to empty the backpack.

Atmos resin, advanced firefighting foam and all the tools have major drawbacks in either consumption or the byproduct. unclickable floors, random short stops and blockable movement.
Halon usage is nice for the goop spreading, but there is no good way to dispense the gas in a meaningful way to fight multiZ fires.
Halon making atmos resin welds vents/scrubbers, which turned make a decent clutch gas to save a SM to SM will singularity everytime because of foam.

If you want my suggestion, I feel like you should be able to beat the crud off vents/scrubbers, don't allow atmos resin to close them up OR remove the unclick plasma residue that comes from advanced firefighting and replace with salt piles. The last one is literally how you stop metal fires, by pouring sand and salt upon it.

Ideally the plasma residue shit would be transparent to clicks if the item you're carrying doesn't interact with it, but I don't know how to do that. Alternatively it could just be a decal and turf effect rather than a physical thing.

I don't think resin blocking off vents/scrubbers is a bad thing. It makes sense both logically and gameplay wise as it's meant to stop the movement of gas. It makes sense that it's bad for the supermatter because you want gas to move. As for multi-z fires, why is halon bad for that? It should be able to spread a fair amount before it goops itself.

[Turbonerd]

I'll try to start over & be all serious.

First, I took interest in the firefighting backpack, noted it's usefulness, observed & tried to guess why people didn't use them outside the department.
I made a PR that added the existing resin mister module to the roundstart suit. Tried to show it off a bit to people.

Boiling down what people that disagree with me say to "we don't need better equipment, we need better players" is oversimplifying, though I swear it's not disingenuous.
So I tried being "the better player". I took the suit when others wouldn't and used it to good effect.
As hard as it is to convey, it really was a commitment. I made the "love goop" bit out of this, but during these rounds I REALLY didn't have much fun.
At the same time, I was competing for limited equipment, which people could use even if just inside atmospherics.
Felt bad taking the thing and even had some minor conflicts over it.

I tried going without it, but immediately noticed how needed a tool of this kind actually is.
Not just when someone speedruns the best bomb possible or plasmafloods on LRP, but through more random events & side-effects of things happening in the game.

I dislike playing optimally. Only a bit after feedback to the "design document" I started scrounging for ways to make it work without changes.
And civilian MODsuit did work. Rushing to convert the atmos one was easy, but felt even worse than just stealing it.
Showcasing that solution to people also didn't click.

I finished thinking about this by exploring alternatives I have used before (earlier I got someone to show me the gas reaction for atmos resin too). Basic atmospherics without changing job from station egineer: space heaters, cans of air, air alarm modes + metal foam, RCD & manual construction.
All were insufficient to keep people comfortable.
The most effective tools solutions were hiding/walling off broken areas, disabling fire-alarms, sweeping debris under potted plants and placing floodlights on fullbright.

Could you elaborate more on what you were doing and why you found it unfun?