Dominator [Unique Sec Gun]

Remie Richards · Sun May 11, 2014 4:50 pm

Dominators are Tasers of Double Stun and Double Weaken and Double the number of shots BUT with unique features and drawbacks.

To fire a Dominator, the user must have security access on their ID (Yes it checks PDAs for IDs)
The User must also NOT be listed in the Sec records as *Arrest* or Incarcerated
and the FINAL point that balances this weapon...

if the target (Who you shot) is NOT in the Sec records as *Arrest* or Incarcerated then the target is NOT stunned.

the Gun can be produced by RD (in a lockbox) for 3 Combat 3 Materials and 2 Magnets tech, with a cost of 5000 metal and 1000 glass

HACKING:
The Gun's Lock may be overriden by Emagging it or using a multitool on it, a multitool may also reset the lock to normal.
a Malfunctioned gun may be fired by ANYONE and may stun ANYONE, all Restrictions are removed when malfunctioned, making it a powerful stun weapon.

tl;dr:
- Sec only gun
- Criminals (Including Sec officers labelled as such) cannot use the gun
- Only Labelled criminals actually get stunned (The Beepsky sec record trick with Unknowns WILL work with this, but I like that)

https://github.com/NTStation/NTstation13/pull/550

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun May 11, 2014 5:10 pm #5197

All of that up until the "ahve to be arrest set for stunning" actually only BUFFS the weapon for Security, as it means that there's less risk in them carrying it anyways. It's just making sec really really strong.

The records are going to make people go all "Paperwork? /strokestroke" or order the AI to do it.

Remie Richards · Sun May 11, 2014 5:15 pm

Cipher3 wrote:All of that up until the "ahve to be arrest set for stunning" actually only BUFFS the weapon for Security, as it means that there's less risk in them carrying it anyways. It's just making sec really really strong.

The records are going to make people go all "Paperwork? /strokestroke" or order the AI to do it.

While yes, it is intended to be a buff to security, but the only tactic it prevents is taking the officers gun, if you take his ID, he can't shoot you.
if you get access to the Records, you could set it so only Heads/Officers are "Criminals" meaning Sec just run around accidentally shooting each other.

And yeah, I get Paperwork is sometimes deemed an issue, but I've seen plenty of Hardworking wardens using Sec Records for Beepsky, all it means is that their work ALSO helps the officers.

And theres the fact it's not available at roundstart, it's a Buff to sec, but only if RD bother with it.

Personally, I feel it's Balanced, but that's what the "Yes but with revision" option is for.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun May 11, 2014 5:17 pm #5199

I like it, I'm a bit iffy on the infinite ammo capacity however but I do like the ID Lock system so simply being disarmed won't mean insta death.

Why not? Its a RnD only item for now anyway.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun May 11, 2014 5:19 pm #5201

Worth a test maybe.

Remie Richards · Sun May 11, 2014 5:22 pm

Well, With it's Stunning capabilities being Double that of the Standard Taser, how about it's Ammo capacity simply following that same pattern?
Personally I'm happy with Infinite ammo considering the Unique stuff tied to the weapon, But if it's wanted, the Ammo can change.

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Sun May 11, 2014 5:25 pm #5204

>steal hudglasses, captain's id, and one of these.
OH YES STATION IS MINE.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun May 11, 2014 5:45 pm #5211

Bluespace wrote:>steal hudglasses, captain's id, and one of these.
OH YES STATION IS MINE.

You'd still need to set anyone you can consider going up against to arrest. And make sure nobody fixes that once they realize what you're doing.

Remie Richards · Sun May 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Cipher3 wrote:
Bluespace wrote:>steal hudglasses, captain's id, and one of these.
OH YES STATION IS MINE.
You'd still need to set anyone you can consider going up against to arrest. And make sure nobody fixes that once they realize what you're doing.

That's what the Hudglasses are for, they let your remotely set someone to Arrest by right clicking them.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun May 11, 2014 6:25 pm #5217

I didn't even know that. Huh.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Sun May 11, 2014 7:17 pm #5224

On paper this concept would be an excellent addition, because security is generally incompetent.

An incompetent security with this weapon could probably do their job well.
A competent security without this weapon can do their job well.

However, the restrictions on the weapon have the side-effect of forcing security to be competent and communicative, at which point they are both competent and in possession of the best weapon in the game.

I still don't think this is a huge issue, but it's worth mentioning. Generally security could do with being a stronger force on the station. It would reduce the loud and proud bombings and ebow+esword rampages that are all too common. Much as I love them, they aren't fun for the people who get instantly killed, and I think a more subtle brand of sabotage should be encouraged without restricting an antagonists options.

Overall I would very much like to see it trialed for a while to observe the effects for a week or two before actually implementing it for good.

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Sun May 11, 2014 7:36 pm #5229

Make it require the person firing it to have a loyalty implant aswell, just to make it even harder to abuse this.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun May 11, 2014 8:23 pm #5239

Tokiko2 wrote:Make it require the person firing it to have a loyalty implant aswell, just to make it even harder to abuse this.

Nope, way too hard. You don't design a weapon so that antags just can't use it. You just design more powerful weapons with more safeties, and that way it takes them more effort to get more reward. Getting a loyalty implant is too much - we're not trying to design a strong weapon impossible to subvert, because the fun of being an antagonist is to hack/sneak/infiltrate/sabotage the station, so making totally traitor-proof things ruin it. Literally nothing on the station requires loyalty implants - something like getting a job as Security is dependent on how competent the person appointing you is to take the precautions necessary.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun May 11, 2014 10:09 pm #5256

Clever use of code but way too niche.

Cipher3 wrote: Getting a loyalty implant is too much

If you can break into the armory, you can steal a loyalty implant. It takes 20 seconds at most, and double stun is so fucking worth it.

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon May 12, 2014 5:18 am #5359

I think it's far too strong for regular sec work, compared to how easy it is to produce.

Being effectively immune to friendly fire means you can just spam it to take people down, and after adding an Unknown to the sec records, has no real drawback.

the requirements to operate the gun is neat (always liked the idea of ID/dna locked guns, as some high tier shit), but the target needing to be flagged makes it rather powerful and able to be used fairly indiscriminately, which I dont support.
Also what happens if you hit a non 'arrest' person? The shot just mgically doesn't effect them?

Also I just realised, why is there not like, a net gun? Stuns a target and they gotta resist a bit/cut their way out.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon May 12, 2014 6:26 am #5369

What, I can't emag it to remove the restrictions? Dropped

E: What I mean is, if I go to the trouble of dunking a sec officer with his most-powerful-nonlethal-in-game, I better fucking be able to use it. If I'm in Science printing guns and emagging lockboxes, why the hell would an emag magically not work on the ID locks on the guns, when it blows the ID locks off literally everything else?

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon May 12, 2014 11:28 am #5416

Not emag proof. Sounds good.

Remie Richards · Mon May 12, 2014 2:36 pm

The Emag function does sound good Psyentific, Now that you mention it Emags break most if not all ID type systems on the station, I suppose it's adequate do follow that trend here.

Edit:
Emag sets the gun to a malfunctioned state.
This can be undone by a Multitool, a Multitool may also set the gun to a malfunctioned state.

a Malfunctioned gun may be FIRED by anyone and may stun ANYONE.

(I'm half expecting officers to grab an multitool or a stolen emag to go all rogue cop)

WeeYakk · Post by **WeeYakk** » Mon May 12, 2014 5:35 pm #5472

Didn't read the thread but this is inspired heavily by Psycho Pass isn't it?

E: Yup. Anime club stream when?

Remie Richards · Mon May 12, 2014 5:54 pm

WeeYakk wrote:Didn't read the thread but this is inspired heavily by Psycho Pass isn't it?

E: Yup. Anime club stream when?

That's where a Request for an SS13 item following roughly the same Unique traits as Psycho pass' dominators came from, yeah.
However this is only the features that fit/mesh with SS13 and has it's own unique art (imblyings did a good job)

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Mon May 12, 2014 9:33 pm #5514

my idea: make these things, name them something else
then make an admin spawn or researchable version that looks like the real one from the show and give it a kill feature

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Tue May 13, 2014 12:11 pm #5645

And non-infinite power cells.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Tue May 13, 2014 12:36 pm #5651

>infinite ammo unstoppable sec weapon that is easily manufactured

Fuckin a son

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue May 13, 2014 6:36 pm #5684

This is a joke, right?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed May 14, 2014 12:37 am #5738

Maybe a better solution is a temp ID lock on just Tasers, that can be overridden in about 20 seconds if you stand still or use a multitool/emag on it. Would mean you can't instantly disarm and turn the weapon on the user but can still steal the gun or at least relieve it.

Just Tasers to incentive using a Taser over a Egun if given an option.

The Dominator is neat but I think its either going to be ignored or spammed to hell thanks to the fact you can fire indiscriminately.

Remie Richards · Wed May 14, 2014 6:53 am

Well considering the Equal Votes right now, I'll probably just siphon off the procs I made to make this work and add those alone.
Maybe the votes will become positive again, but I'm not sure.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Wed May 14, 2014 6:55 am #5773

it really should just be an admin only item
maybe add one or two in space somewhere if we ever add more things to space

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Wed May 14, 2014 7:56 am #5782

yeah making anything with double stun unlimited ammo available to the general public is a horrible idea

the first thing the HoS is going to do is fuck off to space, then hand tele back with unlimited ammo

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed May 14, 2014 12:20 pm #5807

Thats why there is a suggestion saying WITHOUT UNLIMITED AMMO.
HENCE ONE OF TWO VOTES FOR "NEEDS REVISION".

Remie Richards · Wed May 14, 2014 1:42 pm

Ammo is now double the ammount of shots a Taser can fire.

Fair?

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed May 14, 2014 2:18 pm #5820

Is for me!

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Wed May 14, 2014 4:27 pm #5849

Remie Richards wrote:Ammo is now double the ammount of shots a Taser can fire.

Fair?

but its a double stun

why not the same as a taser

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed May 14, 2014 5:10 pm #5861

Cuz its more expensive.

Its like asking why the advanced E-Gun is not the same as a tazer.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Wed May 14, 2014 6:09 pm #5874

AseaHeru wrote:Cuz its more expensive.

Its like asking why the advanced E-Gun is not the same as a tazer.

it cost metal and glass and has a double stun

should just make it an upgraded taser

and you can spam the fucking shit out of it and not worry about friendly fire this shit is overpowered and retarded

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Wed May 14, 2014 9:12 pm #5903

miggles wrote:it really should just be an admin only item

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu May 15, 2014 12:03 am #5933

I'd like to see it for events. Send in a special non lethal team that can fuck people up with double stuns.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Thu May 15, 2014 1:55 am #5956

Nuke Cops rounds would be awesome with this. I love my non-lethal OPs, however unsuccessful they may be.

Remie Richards · Thu May 15, 2014 10:21 am

Alright then, Alright. Considering I do want this to be constructable in a normal round.

Shoot me your most "Balanced" R&D Values for it. Go.

(I'll add the Unlimited ammo version in for badmins too)

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Thu May 15, 2014 10:24 am #6049

Remie Richards wrote:Alright then, Alright. Considering I do want this to be constructable in a normal round.

Shoot me your most "Balanced" R&D Values for it. Go.

(I'll add the Unlimited ammo version in for badmins too)

Same as an advanced energy gun but it only requires metal and glass.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Thu May 15, 2014 2:35 pm #6109

Bah. Needs a tiny bit of diamond aswell.
A tiny bit, for focusing.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat May 17, 2014 1:01 pm #6471

It's honestly not a balanced weapon, doesn't matter what R&D requirements are, if you have 1 non dead/traitor miner, you will have plenty of every mineral, and everything except high illegal tech is easy to get.

Seriously, it's an ID locked weapon that can't friendly fire, that's OP as hell for normal use.

Remie Richards · Sat May 17, 2014 1:31 pm

lumipharon wrote:It's honestly not a balanced weapon, doesn't matter what R&D requirements are, if you have 1 non dead/traitor miner, you will have plenty of every mineral, and everything except high illegal tech is easy to get.

Seriously, it's an ID locked weapon that can't friendly fire, that's OP as hell for normal use.

can't friendly fire, and can't also fire upon proper targets without A: Wearing Hud glasses(and then using them to do option B) or B: having them set as a Criminal in the Database
It means that there's no Point rushing to get this gun at roundstart or anything, as it just won't Work.

I think that's a pretty fair balance, but with people's concerns I've asked for new R&D Values.

Remie Richards · Sun May 18, 2014 10:55 am

Aight, nice experiment, but it's failed. Nice feedback regardless.

Add Dominators?