BYOND account: FlapjackShrek
Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note): Note
Ban/note duration: N/A
Ban/note reason: OOC in IC TTS spam/abuse, spamming ""AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!"" and variations, chat log is entirely full of this. Player continued to do this after being told to stop it in ahelp multiple times while being bwoinked, eventually agreeing to stop (after a prison trip)
Time ban was placed: 2025-04-30 21:47:36 during 251756
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 251756
Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(x) - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
(x) - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance
Why should this appeal be accepted?: viewtopic.php?t=38628
I didn't like getting sent to gay baby jail for TTS spam.
[iain0] OOC in IC TTS spam/abuse
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FlapjackKong
- Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:32 am
- Byond Username: FlapjackShrek
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iain0
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [iain0] OOC in IC TTS spam/abuse
I'll help with the copy pasting and here's your content for the relevant half of the other appeal:
As far as I know the TTS spam rule was put in place to not break immersion/roleplay, at least according to this appeal viewtopic.php?p=766321
I screamed because the captain said "Whoever screams the loudest gets spare." So I scream outside bridge, mind you no one was there to listen to my screams (except ghosts I guess). I was a ling and wanted to potentially get AA so I scream, seems reasonable to me. I get boinked around the same time as the captain finally leaves his office, and as a shapeshifting skin thief that can shape their vocal cords to even cause EMPs who is now screaming at the man who offered AA for the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I tell admin "I'm getting my AA dog" and scream at captain, captain eggs me on saying things like, "I can barely hear you!" and telling me to be louder. Then from the same admin who gave me this gem viewtopic.php?t=38405 sends me to the admin jail with an ominous "In-game administration rulings are final." a classic move invented by powertripping admins from fulpstation and darkRP gmod servers. Not only does this annoy me greatly, but it also robs me of any chance for that sweet sweet golden AA card as I was teleported away right in front of him and jailed for 5 minutes (Very immersive! You saved the server from the ultra griefer who was killing server!). Now I was annoyed at this because I wanted to go mining for ores ASAP and start working on a gimmick for roboticist (or use the AA card I could have gotten for some other trouble). I was considering typing a rebuttal but my UI broke and after that I didn't want to argue or debate anything because I didn't know the rulings on AAAAAAAAAAAA spam and the such and more importantly I wanted to do evil man stuff.
As far as I know the TTS spam rule was put in place to not break immersion/roleplay, at least according to this appeal viewtopic.php?p=766321
I screamed because the captain said "Whoever screams the loudest gets spare." So I scream outside bridge, mind you no one was there to listen to my screams (except ghosts I guess). I was a ling and wanted to potentially get AA so I scream, seems reasonable to me. I get boinked around the same time as the captain finally leaves his office, and as a shapeshifting skin thief that can shape their vocal cords to even cause EMPs who is now screaming at the man who offered AA for the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I tell admin "I'm getting my AA dog" and scream at captain, captain eggs me on saying things like, "I can barely hear you!" and telling me to be louder. Then from the same admin who gave me this gem viewtopic.php?t=38405 sends me to the admin jail with an ominous "In-game administration rulings are final." a classic move invented by powertripping admins from fulpstation and darkRP gmod servers. Not only does this annoy me greatly, but it also robs me of any chance for that sweet sweet golden AA card as I was teleported away right in front of him and jailed for 5 minutes (Very immersive! You saved the server from the ultra griefer who was killing server!). Now I was annoyed at this because I wanted to go mining for ores ASAP and start working on a gimmick for roboticist (or use the AA card I could have gotten for some other trouble). I was considering typing a rebuttal but my UI broke and after that I didn't want to argue or debate anything because I didn't know the rulings on AAAAAAAAAAAA spam and the such and more importantly I wanted to do evil man stuff.
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iain0
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [iain0] OOC in IC TTS spam/abuse
If anything is missing from the above, add it
It's interesting how you're able to present a defence for your actions in appeals that varies from what you were willing to engage with in the ticket.
Lets go over the events from round start ; my attention is caught by the multiple lines of AAAAAA sent into radio for sure, but when I jump to you, you're just standing in the command hallway cycling through the spam with no-one else around, which is where I ask you to stop doing that.
You can see where my orbit lands, which is the "checked the individual player panel", i'm already in orbit there and probably right click player panelled you. Having watched you just spamming multiple different lines alone in command hallway, with no real context myself, I bwoink you and ask you to stop.
You point out that TTS kinda freaks out over these sort of strings. It sure does, in a few ways. Has been intermittently a common past time by people and has been bwoinked a large number of times when people are just running around spamming stuff to make the TTS engine sounds without other reason.
I ask you again to stop it, once more you disregard this and just continue. Then you finally mention the first and only relevant thing ; you're getting your AA. Which means nothing to me, other than you're in the command hallway so yeah I guess thats where you go to get AA. It doesn't explain why you're copy pasting spam that messes with the TTS.
Not having any idea why you're doing what you're doing, other than you keep doing it even after being asked to stop twice, I send you to prison, and remind you that my ruling is final, process is you should be going through appeal or whatever over the situation. However really what you should be doing is replying to the opener of the ticket with the actual relevant information ; "Captain said to shout loud for AA so i'm doing that". So simple, but not in your ticket at all, for some reason it has to come to appeal for you to mention this.
And yeah, this just gets stupid, I'm not sure why you're like this in tickets, you just refuse to provide the evidence you'll later call upon in your appeal, and refuse to engage with the ticket, very little of anything you say in this ticket will be a useful response or give the necessary context that you're now pulling.
You literally sit there trying to hack the door that isn't a door in the admin prison rather than just talking to me, agreeing not to do it, or offering explanation
Finally you say something relevant, though I'd still rather you actually gave the relevant IC information for your actions, but instead if you're going to agree not to do it I guess the ticket is closed and you finally engaged.
I've no idea what the fulpstation comment has to do with anything, I suppose I don't really care and just close out the ticket and return you to the game and move on. Which is all I ever wanted to do with this. I'm not sure why the whole conversation ends up like feeling like trying to get blood from a stone just to get you to engage with me on topic. Your entire input into the ticket that relates to what I'm asking is the cryptic "i'm getting my AA dog" and "OKKKKKKKKK", thats it; admins are not omniscient and all knowing in the round, you need to present the case, which apparently you're capable of doing since you do it in your appeals. What's the issue with engaging with tickets? You'd rather stand in silence unable to do anything in a prison cell for a few minutes rather than engage with the ticket.
Why do you do this?
Had you said in game what the captain had said I could have verified that very trivially (and have) and would simply have asked you not to just copy paste oversized text strings and try roleplaying screaming loudly or finding actual mechanical methods rather than copy paste spam and would probably have just closed it there if it was that simple, but instead somehow we have to come here for you to explain yourself properly.
Anyway, now that we're in a medium where you're able to be engaged on the topic, why don't we just start from the top. I'm gonna approximate a first line you could have used in the ahelp, feel free to rewrite it if you need to, we can go from there, but in the interests of saving time
*BWOINK*
iain0: yup, please dont abuse the TTS to the point you're going for the OOC effect
flapjackshrek: the captain offered AA to whoever shouted loudest
iain0: *speed checks* hmm, i see, fair enough, then I'll ask you to avoid the copy pasta version and particularly the length that causes TTS to glitch out, please try pick a more roleplay approach okay?
(( The hmm is largely because i probably can't say anything to the captain about that as its all quite reasonable, and yet I still aren't up for strings so long you have to copy paste them to even use them (and last thing we need is a copy paste competition if anyone else followed suit, i'd say you should be typing in your screams, and probably using the radio emote feature to actually role play), but this is more just copy paste spam. That happens to break the TTS, and be used regularly by people with that intent. ))
your turn
It's interesting how you're able to present a defence for your actions in appeals that varies from what you were willing to engage with in the ticket.
Lets go over the events from round start ; my attention is caught by the multiple lines of AAAAAA sent into radio for sure, but when I jump to you, you're just standing in the command hallway cycling through the spam with no-one else around, which is where I ask you to stop doing that.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
You literally sit there trying to hack the door that isn't a door in the admin prison rather than just talking to me, agreeing not to do it, or offering explanation
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Why do you do this?
Had you said in game what the captain had said I could have verified that very trivially (and have) and would simply have asked you not to just copy paste oversized text strings and try roleplaying screaming loudly or finding actual mechanical methods rather than copy paste spam and would probably have just closed it there if it was that simple, but instead somehow we have to come here for you to explain yourself properly.
Anyway, now that we're in a medium where you're able to be engaged on the topic, why don't we just start from the top. I'm gonna approximate a first line you could have used in the ahelp, feel free to rewrite it if you need to, we can go from there, but in the interests of saving time
*BWOINK*
iain0: yup, please dont abuse the TTS to the point you're going for the OOC effect
flapjackshrek: the captain offered AA to whoever shouted loudest
iain0: *speed checks* hmm, i see, fair enough, then I'll ask you to avoid the copy pasta version and particularly the length that causes TTS to glitch out, please try pick a more roleplay approach okay?
(( The hmm is largely because i probably can't say anything to the captain about that as its all quite reasonable, and yet I still aren't up for strings so long you have to copy paste them to even use them (and last thing we need is a copy paste competition if anyone else followed suit, i'd say you should be typing in your screams, and probably using the radio emote feature to actually role play), but this is more just copy paste spam. That happens to break the TTS, and be used regularly by people with that intent. ))
your turn
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FlapjackKong
- Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:32 am
- Byond Username: FlapjackShrek
Re: [iain0] OOC in IC TTS spam/abuse
I apologize for the misunderstanding, you didn't ask "why are you screaming" and I thought your complaint was more about fear of the TTS bugging out and sending a long AAAAAAAAA chain at the beginning. I was under the assumption you had seen the big message from the captain to everyone, saying "whoever screams the louedest gets spare" and the replies in comms from other players also screaming hence why my reply after captain walked out was I'm getting AA dog (when I said dog I meant dawg not some insult to you).
While you were checking my player panel to send me to jail captain was talking to me, which I'm pretty sure that panel cannot be accessed remotely unless that has changed. Meaning you were there as a ghost to see the captain was egging me on and telling me to scream louder, which was lacking in logs by the way. I think its harder to ignore all this context than it is to understand what my intentions were, which is why I was under the impression you understood the context. I would have gladly expanded upon this after I was done screaming at captain had I not been jailed.
As for my behavior in gay baby jail, I was mostly just bewildered you would wisp me away right in front of the captain. You weren't asking for a reasoning, you were asking for my subservience and to accept your ruling by the first message of the ticket. And when you sent me to jail you did something from my POV that was a powertrip over some AAAAAAAs in an isolated area, hence why I act that way in admin jail. I was trying to think of the right words but I was annoyed and while formulating a response my UI crashed and at that point I just give in to your demand and say okkkkkkkkk. I genuinely just didn't want to argue at the time and thought you understood the context of me screaming for AA already. Since I told you I'm getting that spare and the captain was egging me on right in front of my face.
So I apologize for that, I hope you understand my frustration as an antag and a player and my misunderstanding that you lacked context while captain was asking screams.
iain0: No worries Flapjackshrek chan I would never send a player engaged in conversation to gay baby jail over spam, in the future try using scream emote on comms.
flapjackshrek: I don't have a clue how to throw emotes up on the radio, if you could enlighten me senpai I would appreciate that.
your turn
While you were checking my player panel to send me to jail captain was talking to me, which I'm pretty sure that panel cannot be accessed remotely unless that has changed. Meaning you were there as a ghost to see the captain was egging me on and telling me to scream louder, which was lacking in logs by the way. I think its harder to ignore all this context than it is to understand what my intentions were, which is why I was under the impression you understood the context. I would have gladly expanded upon this after I was done screaming at captain had I not been jailed.
As for my behavior in gay baby jail, I was mostly just bewildered you would wisp me away right in front of the captain. You weren't asking for a reasoning, you were asking for my subservience and to accept your ruling by the first message of the ticket. And when you sent me to jail you did something from my POV that was a powertrip over some AAAAAAAs in an isolated area, hence why I act that way in admin jail. I was trying to think of the right words but I was annoyed and while formulating a response my UI crashed and at that point I just give in to your demand and say okkkkkkkkk. I genuinely just didn't want to argue at the time and thought you understood the context of me screaming for AA already. Since I told you I'm getting that spare and the captain was egging me on right in front of my face.
So I apologize for that, I hope you understand my frustration as an antag and a player and my misunderstanding that you lacked context while captain was asking screams.
flapjackshrek: Thank you for the advice senpai and for not sending me to gay baby jail, I get quite unreasonable when sent to jail! I was throwing in some *scream emotes as well in person already, I was trying to pull out all the stops to get that golden card. I will be more mindful moving forward*BWOINK*
iain0: yup, please dont abuse the TTS to the point you're going for the OOC effect
flapjackshrek: the captain offered AA to whoever shouted loudest
iain0: *speed checks* hmm, i see, fair enough, then I'll ask you to avoid the copy pasta version and particularly the length that causes TTS to glitch out, please try pick a more roleplay approach okay?
(( The hmm is largely because i probably can't say anything to the captain about that as its all quite reasonable, and yet I still aren't up for strings so long you have to copy paste them to even use them (and last thing we need is a copy paste competition if anyone else followed suit, i'd say you should be typing in your screams, and probably using the radio emote feature to actually role play), but this is more just copy paste spam. That happens to break the TTS, and be used regularly by people with that intent. ))
your turn
iain0: No worries Flapjackshrek chan I would never send a player engaged in conversation to gay baby jail over spam, in the future try using scream emote on comms.
flapjackshrek: I don't have a clue how to throw emotes up on the radio, if you could enlighten me senpai I would appreciate that.
your turn
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iain0
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [iain0] OOC in IC TTS spam/abuse
Fair point on the question, though I suppose from my perspective there isn't a valid answer to that ; even knowing now about the captain thing my conclusion is still to request alternative approaches. Also difficult to know what the right questions are to discover unknown things. I guess overall the act of copy pasting oversized strings into chat as a means of interaction is the part that's questionable to me. Will admit you're the first time I've bwoinked someone for that and have eventually had any real reason to it though, even if I think you should take a different approach.
The prison thing can theoretically be done from anywhere via F6 for the global player list -> Player Panel [PP] -> prison, but I was indeed orbiting you at the time, it's just a case of blinkered vision at that point, once a ticket is being dealt with certain other things "fall into the background", like reading the chat window (which wouldn't help here either as my admin tab filters out local chat and emotes, leaving those in my player / main tab), and all I'd have to pick up here is the floating chat that passes by, meanwhile I'll have some logs, requests manager, orbits, player panel and maybe a notes window on top of all this, as well as the ticket somewhere, so stuff just sorta fades away at some point as focus is elsewhere.
The prisoning sucks, thats for sure, but from my POV at the time I'd asked you twice to stop and you'd not given me any real explanation of why you shouldn't (from my perspective), and just carried on doing the same thing. Prison is mostly just used to lock up griefers to stop them griefing while the permaban paperwork is filled out, but the concept is the same, removing someone from the field who's not stopping doing the thing you asked them to stop. Honestly at the time I didn't come up with any better ways to both force you to stop and make you focus on the ticket. In hindsight, and these ideas only cropped up after the appeal even, I could have IC muted you or something. But actually that might be a worse outcome ; the world can still interact with you, and you with the world, other than talking, and this dragged on for several more minutes before we reached conclusion even with you being removed entirely from the game field, I don't know if I'd have gotten a prompter response muting you and could just drag on if you carry on just playing the game as a mute. Not sure what the best approach here is, telling you for a 3rd time to stop doing something probably doesn't help at that point or progress anything, and the ideal would be getting the relevant information conveyed in the first few lines of the ticket, but with that failing and the copypaste continuing what are the options other than just letting you carry on despite direct instructions. Answer probably doesn't matter, things very very rarely work out like this but I'm not sure I find a better overall choice given my perspective at the time.
Anyway, genuinely wish we could have just resolved this in the ahelp ticket, rather than it drag out into this, please try give appeal-like context in your tickets and hopefully we can shortcut a lot of this process.
As for the all new version of the ticket, probably be something like:
flapjackshrek: [something akin to your line]
iain0: alright, no problem, cheers
i'd probably then remember the radio thing and go look that up which is something like
iain0: FYI you can radio emote with something like ;shouts loudly* (see https://wiki.tgstation13.org/Radio_channels)
(resolve)
I can never remember how that emote thing over radio works but i remember well which wiki page its on.
So, what now. I was tempted to downrank and rewrite the note to take the new stuff into consideration, but having mulled on that for some hours I think I'll pass and just delete the note, you had a reason, and while I still don't agree with the application, having a reason that makes sense is above the bar for the vast majority of "AAAAAAAAetc" related bwoinks in having any explanation attached. Had we handled this via the 5 line version of the ahelp in this appeal I think I'd have just resolved it and moved on, the situation has some mitigation and is in its self niche so there's probably no value to making a note. And based on that I'll just opt for the same handling here and delete the note and just say "Yeah, please avoid the copy paste / spam approach" and leave it at that.
Thanks for your time
The prison thing can theoretically be done from anywhere via F6 for the global player list -> Player Panel [PP] -> prison, but I was indeed orbiting you at the time, it's just a case of blinkered vision at that point, once a ticket is being dealt with certain other things "fall into the background", like reading the chat window (which wouldn't help here either as my admin tab filters out local chat and emotes, leaving those in my player / main tab), and all I'd have to pick up here is the floating chat that passes by, meanwhile I'll have some logs, requests manager, orbits, player panel and maybe a notes window on top of all this, as well as the ticket somewhere, so stuff just sorta fades away at some point as focus is elsewhere.
The prisoning sucks, thats for sure, but from my POV at the time I'd asked you twice to stop and you'd not given me any real explanation of why you shouldn't (from my perspective), and just carried on doing the same thing. Prison is mostly just used to lock up griefers to stop them griefing while the permaban paperwork is filled out, but the concept is the same, removing someone from the field who's not stopping doing the thing you asked them to stop. Honestly at the time I didn't come up with any better ways to both force you to stop and make you focus on the ticket. In hindsight, and these ideas only cropped up after the appeal even, I could have IC muted you or something. But actually that might be a worse outcome ; the world can still interact with you, and you with the world, other than talking, and this dragged on for several more minutes before we reached conclusion even with you being removed entirely from the game field, I don't know if I'd have gotten a prompter response muting you and could just drag on if you carry on just playing the game as a mute. Not sure what the best approach here is, telling you for a 3rd time to stop doing something probably doesn't help at that point or progress anything, and the ideal would be getting the relevant information conveyed in the first few lines of the ticket, but with that failing and the copypaste continuing what are the options other than just letting you carry on despite direct instructions. Answer probably doesn't matter, things very very rarely work out like this but I'm not sure I find a better overall choice given my perspective at the time.
Anyway, genuinely wish we could have just resolved this in the ahelp ticket, rather than it drag out into this, please try give appeal-like context in your tickets and hopefully we can shortcut a lot of this process.
As for the all new version of the ticket, probably be something like:
flapjackshrek: [something akin to your line]
iain0: alright, no problem, cheers
i'd probably then remember the radio thing and go look that up which is something like
iain0: FYI you can radio emote with something like ;shouts loudly* (see https://wiki.tgstation13.org/Radio_channels)
(resolve)
I can never remember how that emote thing over radio works but i remember well which wiki page its on.
So, what now. I was tempted to downrank and rewrite the note to take the new stuff into consideration, but having mulled on that for some hours I think I'll pass and just delete the note, you had a reason, and while I still don't agree with the application, having a reason that makes sense is above the bar for the vast majority of "AAAAAAAAetc" related bwoinks in having any explanation attached. Had we handled this via the 5 line version of the ahelp in this appeal I think I'd have just resolved it and moved on, the situation has some mitigation and is in its self niche so there's probably no value to making a note. And based on that I'll just opt for the same handling here and delete the note and just say "Yeah, please avoid the copy paste / spam approach" and leave it at that.
Thanks for your time
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FlapjackKong
- Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:32 am
- Byond Username: FlapjackShrek
Re: [iain0] OOC in IC TTS spam/abuse
Thank you for your time and consideration, I'll keep those things in mind.
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iain0
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [iain0] OOC in IC TTS spam/abuse
Cheers. Accepted/Closed
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