Got permad for surrender [BAN] [<DemirPL>] <KOH-I-NOOR>

[KOHINOOR]

BYOND account: KOH-I-NOOR
Character name: Johanna Vader
Ban type: Server
Ban length: Permanent

Ban reason: You have been banned by Demir pl from the server. Reason: Possible evader - griefed on campaign round as "war prisoner" , going naked letting himself be captured/killed by opposing side - appeal if you intend on playing. This ban is permanent. The round ID is 33886. To appeal this ban go to viewforum.php?f=70 You are either AFK, experiencing lag or the connection has closed.

Time ban was placed: about a hour ago from now
Round ID in which ban was placed: 33886

Your side of the story: I got perma'd with no warnings or conversations with an admin whilst playing on round 33886 during my attempt to save a dead dead marine during a lowpop round. Marine has been long dead though, but I didn't realized that until I've been crit'd with a defiler neurotoxic attack, and eating my medicine (bicardine/dylovene) trying to heal off the neurotoxicity went bad, so synergetic effect of dylovene went south on toxicity (I suppose toxic damage) eventually killed me. Going ghost I've seen that marine's long gone before I even attempted to do something.

There was a CMO on that round that was acting strange. He practically did not speak except a few words. Instead of performing surgery on chestburster impregnated marines, he's been shooting shotgun, throwing flares and throwing people into the autodoc, like, as if he deliberately delayed the time before the only +- living marine requiring chestburster surgery could've even tried to reach the body of +- almost alive ONLY fellow marine at that lowpop round.
Though surgery on chestburster is way more faster. Felt like that at the round 33886 CMO didn't know how/didn't wanted to perform surgery.

For some reason marine's dead dead body been showing on the minimap with a red cross, and I was thinking that the poor guy just have minutes before going dead dead, but the realization of what's red cross means came to me when I went flying ghost after death; this marine's been long dead, as I've seen it from the status bar near his body, and as I've read at the chat, when he told that it's all been useless. I've retrieved his body at least.

Round before I was playing on a campaign acting as a militia conscript and I was playing pretty much as I played.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I was exploring an alternative TGMC experience with the abilites that campaign gamemode provided me. I think this harmed nothing and no one.

And the data collected

► Show Spoiler

(there is people around that would've been grateful to accept a POW and play out of it)

can be beneficial, if ever the request on implementing the surrender mechanic into the campaign game mode will be met with an offer sometime. Like, if the developers would've been generous on creating an environment where POW by itself as an entity can exist, and can be transferred on board of the, say, OPFOR ship, interrogated, be treated, tourtured, and, well, you know, got the point? Various game situations can be developed from this endlessly, and lots of the roles already existing can be involved into that mechanic, like, the act of the liaison role can be extended beyond existing state, officers can get involved, MP's, etc. Me personally? I just have a different philosophy of the game, that's pretty much it. I like the unusual stuff.

I wasn't naked though. I was wearing liaison attire, snow suit and the snow boots that I've picked on the map, trying to cover myself as a some sort of civilian. Trynna to create a social camouflage withing the existing environment. I just stripped myself of all firearms and noticeable military equipment, so I could win the time to explain myself to the OPFOR before they gun me down on sight. Was there any grief at all?

References of good conduct: My bad for exploiting TTS. I just love Half-Life 2/Max Payne and I couldn't lose an opportunity to have fun with it, there is a citizen TTS voice.

[iansdoor]

As peanuts go, you tried to play a role outside of regular deathmatch.

[demirpl]

Heya!

First question i have before everything else: is account by ckey "cuckuwka" yours? As one of the reasons i permad you is suspicion of evading since that account is connected to your cid.

Now to clean up my thought process behind the 2nd part of the ban and main reason of ban:"griefed on campaign round as "war prisoner" , going naked letting himself be captured/killed by opposing side",
I and few other admins considered your behavior of going naked at enemies as grief/soft grief because campaign has limited respawns and each person matters a lot more, and its a pretty fast paced gamemode which usually
has no time for... Alternative game styles. Now I'm unsure on possible rules on pow or other stuff (if any) as it was never intended. For now if you can tell me if the account is yours or not and we'll proceed from there.

(By naked i meant no armor and guns not actual naked so slight misunderstanding there.)

► Show Spoiler

Reference for admins, campaign round id: 33883

[KOHINOOR]

Heya!

First question i have before everything else: is account by ckey "cuckuwka" yours? As one of the reasons i permad you is suspicion of evading since that account is connected to your cid.

Now to clean up my thought process behind the 2nd part of the ban and main reason of ban:"griefed on campaign round as "war prisoner" , going naked letting himself be captured/killed by opposing side",
I and few other admins considered your behavior of going naked at enemies as grief/soft grief because campaign has limited respawns and each person matters a lot more, and its a pretty fast paced gamemode which usually
has no time for... Alternative game styles. Now I'm unsure on possible rules on pow or other stuff (if any) as it was never intended. For now if you can tell me if the account is yours or not and we'll proceed from there.

(By naked i meant no armor and guns not actual naked so slight misunderstanding there.)

► Show Spoiler

Reference for admins, campaign round id: 33883

I believe as an admin you dispose with tools available to check it out, so, it's beyond my competence and I really can't say anything about relation to that key.

What's about the second part of the banreason, well, I just reflected the banreason content and I was not nude/naked, and I honestly didn't intended to grief. Game is a game and there was no single concept published on how it's meant to be played, so I played it the way I did. I didn't dived into details and specifics about the limited spawns though, and this information is new to me, that spawns were limited. If so, my sincere apologies. Did several extra spawns of militia conscript impaired the power balance between two fractions fighting during the round? Sounds doubtful to me, but it's up to you to judge.

[demirpl]

it's beyond my competence and I really can't say anything about relation to that key.

I'm asking you if you're the owner of this account , simple question yes or no.

[KOHINOOR]

it's beyond my competence and I really can't say anything about relation to that key.

I'm asking you if you're the owner of this account , simple question yes or no.

It makes me wonder why you are so concerned exactly about this point. Personally I've made it clear of what do I think about it in the previous post, and you obviously have a higher authority on declaring such statements, of evasion, so you tell me.

[demirpl]

Well okay then, account isn't yours and I've made a mistake. Happens to all of us. I'll be lifting the ban and changing it into a medium note.

Unless you have any more questions or requests this will be all from me

[KOHINOOR]

Heya!

First question i have before everything else: is account by ckey "cuckuwka" yours? As one of the reasons i permad you is suspicion of evading since that account is connected to your cid.

Now to clean up my thought process behind the 2nd part of the ban and main reason of ban:"griefed on campaign round as "war prisoner" , going naked letting himself be captured/killed by opposing side",
I and few other admins considered your behavior of going naked at enemies as grief/soft grief because campaign has limited respawns and each person matters a lot more, and its a pretty fast paced gamemode which usually
has no time for... Alternative game styles. Now I'm unsure on possible rules on pow or other stuff (if any) as it was never intended. For now if you can tell me if the account is yours or not and we'll proceed from there.

(By naked i meant no armor and guns not actual naked so slight misunderstanding there.)

► Show Spoiler

Reference for admins, campaign round id: 33883

There are many omissions in the wording of the note that give rise to vile thoughts after reading it. If you don't mind, it would be great if you changed the content to match the post where you indicated what you specifically meant in the definition of those terms, in the ban reason.

It sounds as if I were walking around literally nude. And I'm curious to know by which criteria you categorize the grief. Soft grief? Embarrased to ask, is there a hard, or a moderate one?

[iansdoor]

Well okay then, account isn't yours and I've made a mistake. Happens to all of us. I'll be lifting the ban and changing it into a medium note.

Unless you have any more questions or requests this will be all from me

I do believe, you didn't answer his second question. His answers and questions* is a bit hard to read since they look translated. Explain to the poor sap, why you banned him for his abnormal RP attempt in your deathmatch mode and read the rules back to him in your own interpretation.

I wasn't naked though. I was wearing liaison attire, snow suit and the snow boots that I've picked on the map, trying to cover myself as a some sort of civilian. Trynna to create a social camouflage withing the existing environment. I just stripped myself of all firearms and noticeable military equipment, so I could win the time to explain myself to the OPFOR before they gun me down on sight. Was there any grief at all?

What's about the second part of the banreason, well, I just reflected the banreason content and I was not nude/naked, and I honestly didn't intended to grief. Game is a game and there was no single concept published on how it's meant to be played, so I played it the way I did. I didn't dived into details and specifics about the limited spawns though, and this information is new to me, that spawns were limited. If so, my sincere apologies. Did several extra spawns of militia conscript impaired the power balance between two fractions fighting during the round? Sounds doubtful to me, but it's up to you to judge.

[demirpl]

There are many omissions in the wording of the note that give rise to vile thoughts after reading it. If you don't mind, it would be great if you changed the content to match the post where you indicated what you specifically meant in the definition of those terms, in the ban reason.

It sounds as if I were walking around literally nude. And I'm curious to know by which criteria you categorize the grief. Soft grief? Embarrased to ask, is there a hard, or a moderate one?

Changed the note to be more accurate with some extra info. And soft/hard grief. There isn't really a concrete definition but what i usually think is:
Grief - someone spawned , shot up alamo and disconnected.
Soft grief - someone accidentally set off grenade pile , resulting in a lot of deaths.

I do believe, you didn't answer his second question. His answers and questions* is a bit hard to read since they look translated. Explain to the poor sap, why you banned him for his abnormal RP attempt in your deathmatch mode and read the rules back to him in your own interpretation.

Main reason for the ban was possible evading , and ban was decided by another admin too but i might be getting into too much detail there - if you didn't had any related accounts (you currently do) i wouldn't do anything
past a simple warning, and we had more incidents of people going literally naked on campaign lately so that's slightly unfortunate timing of the whole situation too.

Going back to the rules one could really stretch rule 4 precedent to mean "don't become Pow" but instead "escape or fight till you die". Once again really a stretch since technically he went at them acting like a POW in the first place...
Again something i don't think anyone intended in a fast paced pvp gamemode where rounds last 5-15 minutes

Code: Select all

Rule 4 Precedents.

2. If you're being actively threatened by an enemy faction, you can either flee or fight back, but not support them in any way or form.

[iansdoor]

Changed the note to be more accurate with some extra info. And soft/hard grief. There isn't really a concrete definition but what i usually think is:
Grief - someone spawned , shot up alamo and disconnected.
Soft grief - someone accidentally set off grenade pile , resulting in a lot of deaths.

Always keep the changed note listed on forum for their approval and ask if this is reasonable. This makes going back and forth with disagreements of what happened easier.

Main reason for the ban was possible evading , and ban was decided by another admin too but i might be getting into too much detail there - if you didn't had any related accounts (you currently do) i wouldn't do anything
past a simple warning, and we had more incidents of people going literally naked on campaign lately so that's slightly unfortunate timing of the whole situation too.

Do not fall on the sword for another admins discretion about possible and not possible. You need to understand that this is your ban and own up to this. Apologize. Remember that Christmas season is full of spoofs. Please communicate to all of your team about what to do, rather than firing off without warning, that is their purpose.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=37415
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=37414

Going back to the rules one could really stretch rule 4 precedent to mean "don't become Pow" but instead "escape or fight till you die". Once again really a stretch since technically he went at them acting like a POW in the first place...
Again something i don't think anyone intended in a fast paced pvp gamemode where rounds last 5-15 minutes

Rule 4 Precedents.

2. If you're being actively threatened by an enemy faction, you can either flee or fight back, but not support them in any way or form.[/code]

Cant play the hindsight card without gathering information but seems like

Rule 4.1 You are allowed to assist members of an opposing faction given sufficient IC reasoning, but assisting them doesn't mean you get to act like one. Depending on the level of assistance, sufficient IC reasoning could be simply treating everyone who goes into medbay, regardless of them being an enemy combatant or not, all the way to being threatened under pain of death by them to do something. An exception to this is xenomorphs entering truces with other humanoid factions. Do not assist other factions as a Xenomorph. If you don't wish to fight with another faction, run away. If in doubt, ask an administrator if a particular action is okay.

Would have cleared up some misunderstanding and you may be able to enrich the experience of that round.

[KOHINOOR]

There are many omissions in the wording of the note that give rise to vile thoughts after reading it. If you don't mind, it would be great if you changed the content to match the post where you indicated what you specifically meant in the definition of those terms, in the ban reason.

It sounds as if I were walking around literally nude. And I'm curious to know by which criteria you categorize the grief. Soft grief? Embarrased to ask, is there a hard, or a moderate one?

Changed the note to be more accurate with some extra info. And soft/hard grief. There isn't really a concrete definition but what i usually think is:
Grief - someone spawned , shot up alamo and disconnected.
Soft grief - someone accidentally set off grenade pile , resulting in a lot of deaths.

I do believe, you didn't answer his second question. His answers and questions* is a bit hard to read since they look translated. Explain to the poor sap, why you banned him for his abnormal RP attempt in your deathmatch mode and read the rules back to him in your own interpretation.

Main reason for the ban was possible evading , and ban was decided by another admin too but i might be getting into too much detail there - if you didn't had any related accounts (you currently do) i wouldn't do anything
past a simple warning, and we had more incidents of people going literally naked on campaign lately so that's slightly unfortunate timing of the whole situation too.

Going back to the rules one could really stretch rule 4 precedent to mean "don't become Pow" but instead "escape or fight till you die". Once again really a stretch since technically he went at them acting like a POW in the first place...
Again something i don't think anyone intended in a fast paced pvp gamemode where rounds last 5-15 minutes

Code: Select all

Rule 4 Precedents.

2. If you're being actively threatened by an enemy faction, you can either flee or fight back, but not support them in any way or form.

Happy new year! Thanks for the changes in the notes. May I also ask, could've you fix note again, and find out how much times did I used respawn, and reflect it in the player note? I believe it was 4 or 5 times, but I don't remember for sure. Because it sounds like I've depleted literally all the spawns that faction had.

[demirpl]

Okay, thanks for the tips - will keep em in mind.

[demirpl]

There are many omissions in the wording of the note that give rise to vile thoughts after reading it. If you don't mind, it would be great if you changed the content to match the post where you indicated what you specifically meant in the definition of those terms, in the ban reason.

It sounds as if I were walking around literally nude. And I'm curious to know by which criteria you categorize the grief. Soft grief? Embarrased to ask, is there a hard, or a moderate one?

Changed the note to be more accurate with some extra info. And soft/hard grief. There isn't really a concrete definition but what i usually think is:
Grief - someone spawned , shot up alamo and disconnected.
Soft grief - someone accidentally set off grenade pile , resulting in a lot of deaths.

I do believe, you didn't answer his second question. His answers and questions* is a bit hard to read since they look translated. Explain to the poor sap, why you banned him for his abnormal RP attempt in your deathmatch mode and read the rules back to him in your own interpretation.

Main reason for the ban was possible evading , and ban was decided by another admin too but i might be getting into too much detail there - if you didn't had any related accounts (you currently do) i wouldn't do anything
past a simple warning, and we had more incidents of people going literally naked on campaign lately so that's slightly unfortunate timing of the whole situation too.

Going back to the rules one could really stretch rule 4 precedent to mean "don't become Pow" but instead "escape or fight till you die". Once again really a stretch since technically he went at them acting like a POW in the first place...
Again something i don't think anyone intended in a fast paced pvp gamemode where rounds last 5-15 minutes

Code: Select all

Rule 4 Precedents.

2. If you're being actively threatened by an enemy faction, you can either flee or fight back, but not support them in any way or form.

Happy new year! Thanks for the changes in the notes. May I also ask, could've you fix note again, and find out how much times did I used respawn, and reflect it in the player note? I believe it was 4 or 5 times, but I don't remember for sure. Because it sounds like I've depleted literally all the spawns that faction had.

Will do

[KOHINOOR]

You sure you lifted the ban? Can't log into the server for some reason.

[demirpl]

It is lifted - you have logged in few times before and , this will be everything from me. Thanks for appeal again.

[KOHINOOR]

It is lifted - you have logged in few times before and , this will be everything from me. Thanks for appeal again.

You sure you didn't messed with the bans? I just can't log into the server, very weird. Can you try to lift the ban again?

[demirpl]

You sure you didn't messed with the bans? I just can't log into the server, very weird. Can you try to lift the ban again?

It is once again lifted , server isn't online at all times and there have been some issues lately so those might be the reasons you aren't able to join - usually the server issues are more or less announced on main tg discord so you should consider joining it for that information.

[demirpl]

Closing since everything got solved.