non-prog testmerge feedback thread

[dendydoom]

hello,

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/85371 is TM'd for a little while on manuel (may be expanded to other servers, haven't decided yet) to see whether this experiment has any feasibility.

this thread is for feedback from players for this change and how it has affected their rounds.

ultimately this is to see whether the issues of learned behaviour of maximizing rewards via rote gameplay with traitors is changed in any way, and by extension, whether the learned response of the crew to traitors doing this can be relaxed as a result. this is so that we can see if the culture shifts back toward a more open-ended and gimmick based traitor when they have no carrot to chase and need to come up with their own fun with the big toybox of dangerous bullshit they have.

please keep discussion to actual experiences in rounds that you've had, not speculation about whether you like or dislike the concept of this.

[britgrenadier1]

Last night on Manuel we had a mad bomber type traitor who made an IED factory in maint and terrorized security with chem nades and bombs. It was a cool return to what traitors used to do before progtot. Progtot doesn’t exclude these types of traitor gimmicks, but I wonder if because the prog system want there it forced that traitor to get creative with their antagging.

[Vekter]

Last night on Manuel we had a mad bomber type traitor who made an IED factory in maint and terrorized security with chem nades and bombs. It was a cool return to what traitors used to do before progtot. Progtot doesn’t exclude these types of traitor gimmicks, but I wonder if because the prog system want there it forced that traitor to get creative with their antagging.

I've had a theory for a bit about progtot that, in trying to "gamify" being a traitor and pushing them in certain directions, we've gone a long way to disincentivizing the more interesting gimmicks people did as traitor in the past. It doesn't disable or punish being able to do these things, but I think a lot of people see those objectives and just go "eh, I'll do that" instead of coming up with a more creative idea about how to be the bad guy.

[Jacquerel]

Recording for posterity that the reports so far are that quite a lot of people are just purchasing the contractor kit instead, something we will be able to pull data on after the test period has concluded.

[Jake]

Recording for posterity that the reports so far are that quite a lot of people are just purchasing the contractor kit instead, something we will be able to pull data on after the test period has concluded.

Doesn't surprise me, people want to be able to generate more TC and contractor kit has a very good starting assortment of gear.

My experience these last 2 days has been largely the same as it was before, people either do nothing or try to go for their greentext, traitors that actually go for gimmicks are few and inbetween.

I think from a psychological perspective, trying to force gimmicks by removal of our automated systems won't accomplish much.

Creativity is bound to personality, a huge chunk of our players myself included just want to play the beaten path, cutting the amount of TC available to traitors, if anything, restricts the amount of gimmicks you can pull off since you have less gear.

[BrianBackslide]

Recording for posterity that the reports so far are that quite a lot of people are just purchasing the contractor kit instead, something we will be able to pull data on after the test period has concluded.

How does the purchase rate of contractor kits now during the testmerge compare against players choosing contractor prior to progtots? Are there more contractors, or is the rate about the same compared to pre-progtots?

[DaBoss]

Nonprog traitors seem fine to me. Timegates still suck but they did under progtot too, honestly isnt that much of a difference because early objectives are a placebo due to how rep gain works. Traitors are still strong, midpop Terry is still dominated by 2-3 traitors without the extra TCs. Saw more tot gimmicks than usual, maybe? Or at least not less of them.

[Itseasytosee2me]

Big fan. Perfer to play as and against.

[dendydoom]

this term should do this again

[NecromancerAnne]

And make sure to do a poll and run it for a month. Minimum.

[Jake]

From the couple of weeks this went through, I didn't really notice a difference in player behavior besides more people picking contractor, probably because the starting amount of TC is no longer really sufficient to play traitor nowdays.

If you want to give this one another shot, consider raising the starting amout of TC, give traitors a bit more freedom in their loadout choice.