[DaxYeen] High warning for harsh words about map design

[CopperCrow]

BYOND account:[CopperCrow]

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
(N) - Server Ban
(Y) - Note
(N) - Forum Ban
(N) - Discord Ban

Ban/note length: No Expiration Date
Ban/note reason: Warned not to make statements like:<br> OOC: CopperCrow: Im gonna fucking kill the creator of this map for that elevator
Time ban was placed: 2024-07-05 23:24:01
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed:102407

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
(N) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(N) - The ban/note is not against the rules
(Y) - The ban/note needs modification
(Y) - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
(N) - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?: Firstly, I would like to start out by saying I personally think WawaStation is a great map. I really love the effort that Jimmyl put into it, and I love the little easter eggs spread across the map! I have no gripes against the creator in question, and yes I do think I overreacted a bit, and if I was an admin I probably would of given myself a little bit of a nudge for the comment. For Context as to why I was upset, I was playing Security and the AI went Delta. After fighting with the elevator turrets and being put on deaths door, we finally got to the reinforced door leading into the AI chamber. Only thing was the AI found out that they could thwart that by sending the elevator down a floor, again and again and again. We almost had the AI killed but because of the elevator being sent down constantly, Delta goes off and everyone dies. I think this is probably either an oversight or someone knew that would happen and since Malf AIs never win anyway, kept it.

As for me saying I would kill Jimmyl, I wouldn't dream of it. I view 'I'm gonna kill ____ for ___' as a common saying that I think everyone has heard before in a common setting. I do think that the difference here is that in text theres no real way to indicate I was genuinely fueled with murderous rage or just saying it in defeated frustration. I think everyone who has worked with others before have heard something similar to what I said before. Not saying it's not wrong, as It does technically fall into Rule 1, but I also think that, as described in the Admin PM from Dax, "We take it very seriously" is a bit of an overstatement. I've seen people say worse things and I don't think much comes from it. Plus, I think Jimmyl would probably laugh if he saw my comment rather then fear for his life.

Anyway, yap session over, long story short I think its an understandable reason for a note but not enough to be marked as severe. I also won't threaten creators lives, satire or otherwise.

[Dax Dupont]

I personally think it's pretty severe. The note being marked as such doesn't seem harsh considering, it should serve as an indicator that this will lead to bans in the future.

I certainly felt like you didn't take it serious considering your first reply was 'cool'.
The whole saying it's satire doesn't really matter because it
1. Affects the creators of content for our community, vague threats meant as jokes can still be seen as threats. We really shouldn't make statements that involve 'killing', be constructive instead or better yet, PR a fix.
2. Encourages other players to do the same bad behavior.

I am not sure if we ever even changed note severity because of an appeal without changing the contents of the note.

[Vekter]

I am not sure if we ever even changed note severity because of an appeal without changing the contents of the note.

This is something that we've done before. I don't have any specific examples and it's rare, but we've definitely done it in the past.

[Maxipat]

Example of such appeal: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=36278

[Dax Dupont]

Either way, I don't really see anything harsh or unfair here personally.

[CopperCrow]

Well, if you don’t mind then could you point me to the rule that I’ve violated? I hate to be That Guy but the only rule that I could see I’ve broken is rule 1, and even then it’s sort of a very grey area(it would help if there was a side note to this rule saying something like: “Words that can be interpreted as offensive or threatening, even if they aren’t supposed to be, break this rule” rather then “oh don’t be a dick.”). I’ve explained that the words I’ve said weren’t meant to be threatening or offensive in any way, and how I could see someone interpreting it that way, but I still think a High Level warning is a bit up there. The high severity sets a tone for how other Admins view me, and I would not like to be the guy known for “oh yeah this guy wants to kill Jimmy.”


As for me saying “cool” in my first PM, that’s just kinda one of my ways of acknowledging something someone said. Yeah, I need to work on that, but that was my way of saying “I understand.” I also thought you were just giving me a small nudge, rather than getting ready to ban me, as you said in your PM, which is why I acted more blasé.

[Dax Dupont]

Well, if you don’t mind then could you point me to the rule that I’ve violated? I hate to be That Guy but the only rule that I could see I’ve broken is rule 1, and even then it’s sort of a very grey area(it would help if there was a side note to this rule saying something like: “Words that can be interpreted as offensive or threatening, even if they aren’t supposed to be, break this rule” rather then “oh don’t be a dick.”). I’ve explained that the words I’ve said weren’t meant to be threatening or offensive in any way, and how I could see someone interpreting it that way, but I still think a High Level warning is a bit up there. The high severity sets a tone for how other Admins view me, and I would not like to be the guy known for “oh yeah this guy wants to kill Jimmy.”


As for me saying “cool” in my first PM, that’s just kinda one of my ways of acknowledging something someone said. Yeah, I need to work on that, but that was my way of saying “I understand.” I also thought you were just giving me a small nudge, rather than getting ready to ban me, as you said in your PM, which is why I acted more blasé.

It's rule 1.
Saying you're gonna kill people over a map is a violation of rule 1 in jest or not.

[CopperCrow]

Alright, then in the future if might be nice to define the grey area for people. I still disagree and if any other admins could give a second opinion that would be nice, but otherwise it seems like nothings gonna be done here. Take care then, have a good one.

[Dax Dupont]

Alright, then in the future if might be nice to define the grey area for people. I still disagree and if any other admins could give a second opinion that would be nice, but otherwise it seems like nothings gonna be done here. Take care then, have a good one.

I'll ping the headmins

[dragomagol]

As mentioned elsewhere I'm sure, note severity is based on vibes. The note text remains the same, and the next admin to read it can make a judgement call on how severe they think it is based on what was written. It's like an admin flagging a note as important. It's subjective.

As for me saying I would kill Jimmyl, I wouldn't dream of it. I view 'I'm gonna kill ____ for ___' as a common saying that I think everyone has heard before in a common setting.
...
I've seen people say worse things and I don't think much comes from it. Plus, I think Jimmyl would probably laugh if he saw my comment rather then fear for his life.

This is probably true, I'm sure a good chunk of people would take this on the chin as a joke. But there have been many contributors over the years who have been worn down by this kind of joke and it makes contributing kind of a bummer for them. That's not any single person's fault necessarily, just something to be reminded of by this note.

Also I just think it's funnier to make more unusual insults like saying you're gonna remove all his keycaps or dip all of his socks in puddles or something.