[Dunham] Bisar - Note about revenge against sec lacks significant details

[Bisar]

BYOND account: Bisar

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
(x) - Server Ban
(X) - Note
() - Forum Ban
() - Discord Ban

Ban/note length: - 2 day ban, no expiration on note
Ban/note reason: Blew up a random person in tool storage after saying Sec ruined their round. Possible Collateral damage, though, you are still responsible for innocent people you kill with your explosive devices
Time ban was placed: 2024-06-23 07:33:18
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 230997

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect
() - The ban/note is not against the rules
(x) - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd just like to request that this note be updated with context, as the state of it now makes it seem like I sprinted into tool storage and blew myself and a random bystander up because I was mad about sec hurting my feefees.

The context was the following:


I was gulag'd for tresspassing and breaking Beepsky. The gulagging happened about ~10 minutes into the round. When I finally got back on station, I was nearly killed by a singularity and left to fend for myself after security abandoned me. I narrowly avoided being killed by the singularity as it tore apart the labor shuttle that I was completely trapped in. I wandered around a for a few minutes after this with no access and no gear because it had been destroyed by the singularity after, again, Security had left me to fend for myself while a singularity destroyed the station instead of helping me up from the gulag.

Regardless, after narrowly avoiding death and losing every single one of my belongings due to their negligence, I walked up to a Security Officer in tool storage and asked them about one of the security officers who arrested me, gulagged me, then left me to die via negligence. When I told the Security Officer in question that what they did almost got me killed, they shrugged and started walking off, which is when I blew both of us up.

I did not injure anyone else with the bomb. I had in-character reasons for doing what I did, though giving me a ban for it is really up to your discretion if you think the context didn't call for that level of conflict.

I would simply like the note to be amended to reflect some or even all of these facts, rather than its current state that characterizes me as having murdered some random bystander because "security ruined my round"

[Dunham]

Sure. I can edit the note so it just reflects that you blew up a sec officer but that's very extreme escalation still. Do note that the ticket came in at the very end of the round at round end, and while trying to find you to PM you about what happened, you've already logged out. I do appreciate you coming on and telling me your side of the story, but the ban still says.

[Dunham]

Changed note and ban to "Blew up a Sec officer in tool storage after being gulagged 600 points for destroying Beepsky. As a non-antag, this is blatant overescalation of the situation."

[Bisar]

Would you also be able to note that Sec abandoned me to die to a singularity that trapped me inside the gulag shuttle?

[dendydoom]

Would you also be able to note that Sec abandoned me to die to a singularity that trapped me inside the gulag shuttle?

can you elaborate on what you mean by "sec abandoned me to die"?

what was the actual interaction that happened here that you felt was necessary to initiate such a high level of destructive conflict?

[Bisar]

Would you also be able to note that Sec abandoned me to die to a singularity that trapped me inside the gulag shuttle?

can you elaborate on what you mean by "sec abandoned me to die"?

what was the actual interaction that happened here that you felt was necessary to initiate such a high level of destructive conflict?

To phrase it a bit beter, as my initial post may have been somewhat rambling:
I was gulag'd for a minor offence. Annoying, but whatever, I should follow Space Law. However, I was not retrieved from the Gulag, pursuant to said Space Law, when me being in the gulag became very dangerous to me, or in this case, my character.

The reasoning of this being dangerous to my character is that a singularity began destroying the station while I was down there. This singularity cut power to the airlocks that would have let me out of the gulag shuttle after serving my sentence. No Security Officers or the Warden made any attempts to ensure my safety after putting me in a situation that compromised my safety.

When I attempted to address this with a Security Officer after the fact, their response was to shrug me off. It was over-escalation to blow them and myself up, yes, but it was also gross dereliction for them to respond to my valid complaints about them not giving a single shit about making sure I don't die due to their actions. I understand that my chosen phrasing here is strong; but I would like it mentioned in the record that I was responding to being left to die in a situation that they put me in in the first place, rather than evacuated from the gulag or the shuttle as they should have at least made a half-assed attempt at doing, which they did not.

[Bisar]

To rephrase in a less whinging/bellicose way: I want the note to mention I was responding to Security misbehavior. I'm not requesting amnesty for over-reacting, but I want to frame my reaction (excessive) in the context of the situation, rather than how it might be viewed now as a permanent note with no context on why I did what I did.

[Dunham]

I'm not gonna add that part to the note mostly because it wasn't security that was being punished with the note, it was you. You were already free from the Gulag, you could've taken it and escaped on the shuttle. Instead, you went to a sec guard, told them about your woes, and blew them up because they simply didn't care at the moment

[lorwp]

Hi, for reference i was the secoff you blew up (Isn't-that-Creative). Just want to give my perspective on this.

For reference, i had latejoined about ~4 minutes prior.

Code: Select all

[2024-06-23 07:05:57.456] GAME: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3754) Client Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) has taken ownership of mob Isnt-That-Creative(/mob/living/carbon/human)(Arrival Shuttle (38,42,13))

This is the entire log of the interaction there.

Code: Select all

[2024-06-23 07:08:12.625] GAME-EMOTE: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3323) points at Isnt-That-Creative (Starboard Primary Hallway (129,138,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:12.864] GAME-EMOTE: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3323) points at the floor (Starboard Primary Hallway (130,138,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:15.673] GAME-SAY: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3323) "dis chris dead?" (Starboard Primary Hallway (130,138,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:22.953] GAME-SAY: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3323) "he almost got me killed" (Starboard Primary Hallway (130,138,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:16.091] GAME-SAY: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3754) "wot" (Starboard Primary Hallway (131,139,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:18.618] GAME-SAY: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3754) "nope" (Starboard Primary Hallway (130,139,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:22.953] GAME-SAY: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3323) "he almost got me killed" (Starboard Primary Hallway (130,138,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:27.598] GAME-EMOTE: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3754) shrugs. (Auxiliary Tool Storage (130,142,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:33.627] ATTACK: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3323) transferred reagents to [mortar] with the bucket which had /datum/reagent/iron (20u, 1 purity) (Auxiliary Tool Storage (131,141,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:33.653] GAME: Explosion with size (2, 5, 10, 0) in (Auxiliary Tool Storage (131,141,2)).  Possible cause: the empty smoking pipe. Last fingerprints: bisar/(Gregory Harrison).
[2024-06-23 07:08:33.990] ATTACK: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3323) has died (BRUTE: 8.5, BURN: 3, TOX: 0, OXY: 0 (Auxiliary Tool Storage (131,141,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:34.025] GAME: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3781) Client Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) has taken ownership of mob Gregory Harrison(/mob/dead/observer) (Auxiliary Tool Storage (131,141,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:34.036] VIRUS: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) was infected by virus: Mime Crisis - sym: Facial Hypertrichosis, Chills, Voice Change, Confusion, Viral self-adaptation and Eternal Youth re:11 st:6 ss:1 tr:5 at (Auxiliary Tool Storage (131,142,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:34.132] ATTACK: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3754) has died (BRUTE: 0, BURN: 0, TOX: 0, OXY: 0 (Auxiliary Tool Storage (131,142,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:34.159] GAME: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3783) Client Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) has taken ownership of mob Isnt-That-Creative(/mob/dead/observer) (Auxiliary Tool Storage (131,142,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:38.789] GAME-SAY: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3783) (DEAD) "KEK" (Auxiliary Tool Storage (130,141,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:39.349] GAME-SAY: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3781) (DEAD) "shrug at that" (Starboard Primary Hallway (129,139,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:44.164] GAME-SAY: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3783) (DEAD) "I FUCKIN WILL" (Auxiliary Tool Storage (130,141,2))
[2024-06-23 07:08:49.249] GAME-SAY: Lorwp/(Isnt-That-Creative) (mob_3783) (DEAD) "*SHRUG" (Space (140,141,2))
[2024-06-23 07:21:49.838] GAME-SAY: Bisar/(Gregory Harrison) (mob_3781) (DEAD) "why is silas still stunned" (Emergency Shuttle (95,53,14))

I assumed you were an antagonist here, but roundend came up and and you weren't listed as one, hence why i ahelped it.

i can't say this really ruined my round or anything, i didn't really have one to begin with, but it seemed pretty lame to bomb someone for a conflict they weren't even involved in or even knew about.

The only two cents i'd put in here about the context given is that the gulag is generally self service (that being, you let yourself out and get your own stuff when you reach the point total, typically), and the only person whose job whatsoever is to watch you is the warden, who probably wasn't in a position to help you given the singularity that likely spaced/destroyed their department, and they likely are dealing with the source of that singularity putting the station actively in danger. Even if they intentionally left you there, it doesn't seem like in the context provided here you actually knew that for certain. This honestly seems like nobody's fault, and just a pure SS13 moment.

lorwp edit: missed a few lines in the log, added.

[Bisar]

I'm not gonna add that part to the note mostly because it wasn't security that was being punished with the note, it was you. You were already free from the Gulag, you could've taken it and escaped on the shuttle. Instead, you went to a sec guard, told them about your woes, and blew them up because they simply didn't care at the moment

I can respect you not wanting to cast a negative light on other players when it comes to a note or ban for one player. I can't say that I'm satisfied with the decision not to mention any of the motivation for my bombing, and I do still harbor some bitterness about it, but I'm willing to let it go.

Not giving a shit about misconduct is a valid way to play a Security Officer, even if I personally don't approve of it. I can't approve of my own chosen way to roleplay while demanding others' be seen as a valid reason to escalate to round removal.

i can't say this really ruined my round or anything, i didn't really have one to begin with, but it seemed pretty lame to bomb someone for a conflict they weren't even involved in or even knew about.

I wrongfully extrapolated you not giving a damn about my very taciturn reporting of events as you having been present during me being gulagged; I assumed wrong and let myself get pissed over it.

The only two cents i'd put in here about the context given is that the gulag is generally self service (that being, you let yourself out and get your own stuff when you reach the point total, typically), and the only person whose job whatsoever is to watch you is the warden,

Well, no, if it's in their power, ensuring the safety of prisoners outside of the prisoners making themselves a danger to them, is also the job of security officers; sentencing and release are the warden's primary job but Sec Officers are supposed to assist if requested or able, but anyway...

who probably wasn't in a position to help you given the singularity that likely spaced/destroyed their department,

For your own enrichment, if you ever play Warden or Fair Cop type who cares about everyone, even the criminal scum:

You can go down in the public mining shuttle and the cargo mining shuttle in order to reach the gulag, if prisoner safety becomes an issue that needs to be addressed (as Space Law says it should)

Even if they intentionally left you there, it doesn't seem like in the context provided here you actually knew that for certain. This honestly seems like nobody's fault, and just a pure SS13 moment.

Well it is someone's fault, but it's been declared that the fault is not enough to be included as context in my note, so I'll let it lie, because the juice of this particular fruit isn't worth the squeeze.

[Dunham]

Would you like to close this appeal? I feel that most of the stuff that was talked about has been done/agreed upon. I will be editing the note even further to demonstrate that you had motivation for your bombing since it's clear you want to add context to the situation.

[Dunham]

Note has been changed to:

"Blew up a Sec officer in tool storage after being gulagged 600 points for destroying Beepsky. Bisar felt he was left behind to die from security since an impending Singulo ate the brig and the exit of the gulag shuttle. After finding a sec officer and asking why he was left to die, the sec officer who had nothing to do with his arrest or his gulagging, shrugged in response. This triggered the bombing. However, as a non-antag, this is blatant overescalation of the situation, even though the sec officer in question reacted to the situation in a very uncaring matter."