[Higgin] Flies-The-Bomber - A case of possible overescalation and NRP by a borg against lizard holding a bomb

[DHache]

BYOND account: Doomlolcat

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
(X) - Server Ban
(X) - Note
() - Forum Ban
() - Discord Ban

Ban/note length: 6 days
Ban/note reason: Indirectly Killed 6 others with a TTV rigged to a death sensor:

Code: Select all

Banned from the server for 1 week - [MRP] Near-immediately took out six people and destroyed a large part of the escape shuttle when bringing a death-sensor rigged bomb aboard for EORG and succumbing after getting crit by a cyborg as a non-human scientist who saw them deconstructing walls aboard the shuttle.

Time ban was placed: 23/6/2024, 11:30 PM
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed:230989

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
(X) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
() - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
(X) - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?: I have reason to say that I was unfairly escalated against by the cyborg that led to my death. I will take fault for succumbing early, but there are plenty of signs pointing to this being LRP shittery, namely ignorance of rule 1 for both normal and MRP, as well as MRP rules 2 and 4.
https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... attack.txt
https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... 9/game.txt

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[2024-06-23 03:15:41.119] ATTACK: Strecozel/(Anne Burkett) (mob_3864) threw and hit Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with the emergency climbing hook (NEWHP: 33.5)  (Emergency Shuttle (214,134,4)). (Emergency Shuttle (222,124,4))
[2024-06-23 03:15:48.258] GAME-SAY: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) "please stop hitting me.." (Emergency Shuttle (213,134,4))
(44 unrelated gamesay logs here, 53 unrelated attack logs here.)
[2024-06-23 03:16:01.838] ATTACK: TagGamerGame2/(Theseus Medical Shell-392) (mob_3538) flashed(targeted) Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with the flash (NEWHP: 24.5)  (Emergency Shuttle (210,137,4))
(71 unrelated attacks until shove.)
[2024-06-23 03:16:17.914] ATTACK: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) shoved TagGamerGame2/(Theseus Medical Shell-392) (NEWHP: 100)  (Emergency Shuttle (206,135,4))
[2024-06-23 03:16:31.363] GAME-SAY: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) "THE BORG TOOK MY EMOTIONAL SUPPORT BOMB!!" (Emergency Shuttle (206,135,4))
(9 unrelated say)
[2024-06-23 03:16:35.684] GAME-EMOTE: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) points at the shuttle airlock (Emergency Shuttle (208,134,4))
[times 6, with 5 other unrelated saylogs. 114 Unrelated attack logs since shove. For some reason, welding was NOT recorded as i exited the shuttle and into a departures hall to retrieve the bomb, which was behind bolted doors
And left me with only a wall as my means of fastest access.)
[2024-06-23 03:16:57.430] ATTACK: foil12/(Borg LXXI) (mob_3444) flashed(targeted) Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with the flash (NEWHP: 25.5)  (Departure Lounge (201,137,4))
[2024-06-23 03:16:58.452] ATTACK: foil12/(Borg LXXI) (mob_3444) flashed(targeted) Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with the flash (NEWHP: 25.5)  (Departure Lounge (201,137,4))
(127 unrelated saylogs. Welding was still ongoing between attack and next two say logs.)
[2024-06-23 03:17:01.567] GAME-SAY: foil12/(Borg LXXI) (mob_3444) "WHAT" (Departure Lounge (201,137,4))
[2024-06-23 03:17:05.907] GAME-SAY: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) "I WANT MY EMOTIONAL SUPPORT BOMBBB" (Departure Lounge (202,137,4))
(23 unrelated attack logs.)
[2024-06-23 03:17:08.786] ATTACK: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) attacked [girder] with the wrench (Departure Lounge (202,137,4))
(7 unrelated attacks)
[2024-06-23 03:17:09.560] ATTACK: foil12/(Borg LXXI) (mob_3444) attacked Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with integrated welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 10.5)  (Departure Lounge (201,137,4))
(8 unrelated attacks)
[2024-06-23 03:17:10.611] ATTACK: foil12/(Borg LXXI) (mob_3444) attacked Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with integrated welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -0.7)  (Departure Lounge (201,137,4))
(7 unrelated attacks, and entered softcrit.)
[2024-06-23 03:17:11.678] ATTACK: foil12/(Borg LXXI) (mob_3444) attacked Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with integrated welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -15.7)  (Departure Lounge (201,137,4))
(11 unrelated attacks)
[2024-06-23 03:17:13.157] ATTACK: foil12/(Borg LXXI) (mob_3444) attacked Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with integrated welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -30.7)  (Departure Lounge (201,137,4))
(5 unrelated attacks. Entered hardcrit due to mood modifiers)
[2024-06-23 03:17:14.283] ATTACK: foil12/(Borg LXXI) (mob_3444) attacked Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) with integrated welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -45.7)  (Departure Lounge (201,137,4))
(4 unrelated attacks. Chose to succumb because my screen was basically pure white.)
[2024-06-23 03:17:15.206] ATTACK: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) Has succumbed to death with -45.7 points of health! (Departure Lounge (202,137,4))
(48 unrelated say logs before Death and bomb detonation.)
[2024-06-23 03:17:15.207] GAME-EMOTE: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Departure Lounge (202,137,4))
[2024-06-23 03:17:15.223] ATTACK: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) has died (BRUTE: 22, BURN: 98.9, TOX: 32.92, OXY: 54.3 (Departure Lounge (202,137,4))
[2024-06-23 03:17:15.385] ATTACK: Doomlolcat/(Flies-The-Bomber) (mob_3185) suffered: Second Degree Burns to chest | Damage: 15 (rolled 29/44.3127) | WB: 10 | BWB: 15 (Departure Lounge (202,137,4))

Both borgs involved did not attempt to talk or reason with me, instead immediately choosing to use force that was available to them. They also did not consider the fact that I was passive and even polite, did not attempt to retaliate against them, and only sought to retrieve my hard work regardless of if I missed shuttle. I was not antagonist, nor did I have any reason to be in violent conflict with either borg involved, and especially not with borg LXXI who near-wordlessly validhunted me for it. This goes against rule 1, as there were other available means of disarming the situation AND the usage of force was excessive in nature and would have killed me regardless. Last but not least, the borg involved was a engineering shell, which is NOT supposed to be performing such acts in the place of security (which was present at multiple points.)

[Higgin]

Both borgs involved did not attempt to talk or reason with me, instead immediately choosing to use force that was available to them. They also did not consider the fact that I was passive and even polite, did not attempt to retaliate against them, and only sought to retrieve my hard work regardless of if I missed shuttle. I was not antagonist, nor did I have any reason to be in violent conflict with either borg involved, and especially not with borg LXXI who near-wordlessly validhunted me for it. This goes against rule 1, as there were other available means of disarming the situation AND the usage of force was excessive in nature and would have killed me regardless. Last but not least, the borg involved was a engineering shell, which is NOT supposed to be performing such acts in the place of security (which was present at multiple points.)

hey, thanks for reaching out. unfortunately, even if true, the case here doesn't really speak to the ban or its reasoning. this forum isn't for others' conduct that wouldn't have changed what you did in the round. it could have just as well been a traitor walking up and killing you as a target - same result. specifically, the ban here is under

Do not facilitate player deaths for poor IC reasoning. Distributing bombs or other similarly destructive items can leave you responsible for how they are used if not cleared with an admin first. Each unjustified kill is normally met with a 24-hour ban.

While bringing the 'emotional support bomb' aboard because you don't trust the NT social experiment going on (your abductor brainwashing) is a fun way to frame it, it needs to have been built up to through IC rather than a fig leaf for EORG (which is generally understood to be fine and allowed - lots of scientists bring their TTVs out to play. the issue here was just having had it on the death sensor so it went off when you succumbed, leading to the unintentional deaths.) you own the consequences of it going off (taking out six people in short order and most of the fore half of the shuttle) for which the ban was placed.

________________________________________________________________________

On the matter of the borgs, though, and to clarify the policy you've brought up (all my emphasis in bold:)

You may begin IC conflicts with another player if it does not excessively interfere with their ability to do their job. While you are allowed to escalate conflicts, if it leads to violence and you have poor IC reasoning for inciting it, you may face administrative action.

Killing a crewmate is a severe response, and requires severe justification to do, such as those in Rule 1's precedents, or Rule 4.

Critically wounded characters must be treated or taken to the medbay by the standing party where reasonable, and taking unnecessary action against a downed player opens you up to reprisal. If you are incapacitated in a fight and treated, or the conflict is otherwise meaningfully broken, you are expected to require an IC reason beyond 'bruised ego' to re-initiate it.

The purpose of the roleplay servers is to provide a higher quality environment for roleplay. The roleplay rules are intended to promote more interactions between players so more roleplay moments can happen. They are not exhaustive, and admins have a very broad discretion to intervene where behaviours or actions could, if left ignored, contribute to a lower roleplay environment.

Modified standard escalation applies to instances of player conflict. Players may escalate as per standard escalation policy on MRP where they have legitimate in character reason to do so. Players acting without legitimate IC reasoning (for example: randomly or unnecessarily attempting to steal items from departments or other people) void the right to escalate to lethal self-defence if it is employed reasonably by the wronged party.

You should not act like a vigilante if a security force is present unless you have a good in-character roleplay reason to believe a global or round-ending threat exists. Restricted antags that are not automatically global or round ending threats may still become so through their actions in the shift, the stronger your reasoning the more action you can take against them.

You can always defend yourself and others from violent antagonists.

Players that choose to act as security will be held to the same standards as security.

Deconstructing stuff into the shuttle and bringing a bomb aboard, even if you protest it with words and not with deeds, moves you from 'scientist patiently waiting to maxcap at EORG' (not always a given) to a credible IC concern potentially about to cause a massive amount of human harm. As far as I could tell you after checking in with the borgs that round, it was not for no reason that they were concerned about what you were doing, and that was why they acted - not to grief you, but out of IC concern. After they flashed you, you kept going back and after the bomb.

They didn't kill you or stop you from doing your job. They well might have done and left you dead - which would be overescalation - but ultimately, you succumbed out before they well and truly killed you which didn't give them that chance.

I'm not going to ask them to not act on what they fairly believe to be a credible threat or one that is credibly 'global' in its scope (a maxcap on the shuttle, for instance) - their laws in fact require it. When TTVs and other WMDs enter the situation, the threshold for the necessary certainty and previous communication drops. TTVs themselves - especially brought by quiet scientists to the escape shuttle or in science/toxins - are not an antag tell. However, their presence in the hands of people you have a reason to believe might use them to do harm invokes the right to defense under RPR4 on top of being required for Asimov cyborgs under Law 1.

Ultimately, while I can say it would feel better if they'd been willing to talk and hear you out as you came aboard, had the bomb, seemingly had them and others bodyblocked, asked people to stop shoving you, and cried out to get the bomb back before getting killed (after they'd first just taken it away from you - a more restrictive means than immediately killing you, which they only started doing after you started deconstructing,) it would be worse if I asked them to not act on good-faith IC to do what they felt was appropriate here to protect the crew. It would have been worse if I asked them to softball their judgment, anticipating you were just looking to do your EORG, only for you to have been a traitor with a DAGD objective who then maxcapped the shuttle and caused massive human harm.

It would not be in service of opportunities for roleplay to tell people not to roleplay for the sake of the 60 OOC seconds at roundend; I didn't ultimately find in the round that they were acting just to grief you or overescalating, which I would action, but rather acting in what they reasonably thought was a fashion allowed by defense and allowed if not required by their laws.

I'm sorry that it sucked, but I hope that clarifies my comedown - even if what you're talking about here isn't relevant to your ban conduct.

_________________________________________________________________


All that said, this is a first offense and does not seem to have been intentional - the reasons for using a death sensor for your EORG are understandable even if it was a dangerous call that did not pay off. How's a reduction to it ending on 06/25/2024 @ 12:00AM sound?

[DHache]

Hey Higgin. I appreciate you hearing me out. Thing is, I feel like this once again misses the spirit of the events that happens. In particlular, I did not at any point cause damage to the shuttle until I died. The logs even show that I exited the shuttle to the departure lounge because my bomb was outside the shuttle. The whole reason I am contesting this is because it does not accurately portray events and blatantly ignores a higher standard of RP that people are held to on MRP. The punishment recieved is Justified, but the responsibility is split.

They didn't kill you or stop you from doing your job. They well might have done and left you dead - which would be overescalation - but ultimately, you succumbed out before they well and truly killed you which didn't give them that chance.

This is my first nitpick about the way it is framed. People have been banned for lots less than going lethal. In fact, I have on my record been banned for 24 hours over beating a clown to crit for a multitool, even though I did not hardcrit them and acted in good faith afterwards. The clown Did not need a multitool to do their job, but this was still considered overescalation because I used weaponry and lethal force to get my way. Why should borgs not be held to the same standard in escalation even with their laws involved?

Ultimately, while I can say it would feel better if they'd been willing to talk and hear you out as you came aboard, had the bomb, seemingly had them and others bodyblocked, asked people to stop shoving you, and cried out to get the bomb back before getting killed (after they'd first just taken it away from you - a more restrictive means than immediately killing you, which they only started doing after you started deconstructing,) it would be worse if I asked them to not act on good-faith IC to do what they felt was appropriate here to protect the crew. It would have been worse if I asked them to softball their judgment, anticipating you were just looking to do your EORG, only for you to have been a traitor with a DAGD objective who then maxcapped the shuttle and caused massive human harm.

If i was a traitor/had DAGD as an objective, why would I 1) Leave my bomb visible where anyone could steal, remove, modify or detonate it?
2) refuse to detonate it for a good two minutes while the shuttle was being boarded
3)ask people not to hurt/shove me when I was clearly minding my own business?

Any normal DAGD traitor would see that bomb and just blow it the fuck up at first chance, with the very VERY unlikely exception that they were waiting for a target. on the off chance of that, why not just bomb the shuttle immediately from a safe distance? There were plenty of signs and signals that I was not an active threat, and that they saw my mere presence to be in bad faith simply for ownership of the bomb.

It would not be in service of opportunities for roleplay to tell people not to roleplay for the sake of the 60 OOC seconds at roundend; I didn't ultimately find in the round that they were acting just to grief you or overescalating, which I would action, but rather acting in what they reasonably thought was a fashion allowed by defense and allowed if not required by their laws.

Yes, I get that EORG is not an excuse for not roleplaying, but at the same time its not an excuse to not roleplay for the exact opposite reason. The borg could have asked me to stop, or called security, or done Literally nothing and it would not have resulted in explosion on the shuttle. Similarly, if they were really that concerned about protecting the humans, they would not drag the bomb off the shuttle and leave it directly outside in sight of everyone boarding. If i was antagonist in that situation, that bomb would have gone off plenty well enough (and did, much to my frustration) that their actions were both ineffective and detrimental.

If i hadn’t succumbed, but rather let things play out to their fullest, do you think the bomb would not have gone off, especially given the way events unfolded? Is it really fair to claim that the borgs did nothing wrong if they had options available within their laws to handle the issue BESIDES violence?

All that said, this is a first offense and does not seem to have been intentional - the reasons for using a death sensor for your EORG are understandable even if it was a dangerous call that did not pay off. How's a reduction to it ending on 06/25/2024 @ 12:00AM sound?

As much as I like this suggestion and greatly appreciate your willingness to let me off easy, I must refuse on the grounds that I am still in part at fault, and should not have succumbed knowing that it would detonate the bomb early.
This whole appeal is more focused on correcting the detailing of the events on the note and trying to bring attention to what could be viewed as a double standard. I would be far happier if this actually brought up policy questions instead.
Claiming in the note that i deconstructed part of the shuttle itself is overly harsh, and paints me to be in a worse light than the bombing itself could on it’s own, as it shows Intent that was not there. Everything else about the ban is valid, and I accept it as-is.I should hold myself to the same standards that I am trying to press for, after all.

[Timberpoes]

I'm going to try to address a few points when it comes to silicons and escalation.

Silicon policy and a silicon's laws override all standard IC rules about killing, escalation, acting like an antag etc. That's the first layer of asymmetry. You also have to factor in the second layer of asymmetry - some carbons are more important than others.

Accordingly, Carbon <-> Silicon player interactions are asymmetric by design and intent. There may be times when a carbon is bound by escalation towards a silicon but not the other way around. So a silicon may be able to pre-emptively attack and kill any non-human hauling a bomb around near humans, but a non-human non-antag dragging a bomb around near humans cannot pre-emptively attack a silicon even if that silicon might be able to kill them for dragging that bomb around.

[Bonus edit] And for it working the other way around, there may be times where a human non-antag can pre-emptively attack a silicon, but that silicon cannot (due to Asimov Law 1) cause any harm back to that human in any way, shape or form and can only flash or flee.

When you mash it all together, a borg correctly applying Asimov Law 1 against a non-human doesn't have to follow escalation and their response doesn't have to be proportionate either. This is one of the intended gameplay outcomes, flavour mechanics and balacing mechanics for playing non-humans.

They don't even have to take the non-human to be revived, although they will have to justify any steps taken to prevent revival or make revival more difficult beyond leaving the body where it falls.

[DHache]

When you mash it all together, a borg correctly applying Asimov Law 1 against a non-human doesn't have to follow escalation and their response doesn't have to be proportionate either. This is one of the intended gameplay outcomes, flavour mechanics and balacing mechanics for playing non-humans.

And if they end up causing harm to humans BECAUSE they attacked a non-human? what then? there should be some level of nuance with the escalation they perform especially if they don't know the full circumstances.
This is the whole reason I even GOT the ban to begin with, because a borg did not have the foresight to think "Do I really need to beat up this lizard to protect the humans?"
if this is by design AND punishable for the non-human being attacked, what's stopping borgs from just slaughtering every non-human on the station at a whim, simply because they *might* harm a human?

[Higgin]

[snip]

The mistake in my thinking here was in applying escalation policy straight to a situation where the laws were in play - thank you for clarifying.

[snip]

The reason I don't find against the borgs here is because as best I can tell, they had good enough IC for intervening that doesn't leave it down to FNR grief. If you think that's the wrong call here, since we're not talking about your banning conduct, I'd welcome you to instead say you think my interpretation here is wrong and that I've neglected the facts as they should appear from the round in viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35812. Others' ticket conduct is something I can't really bring in here as a matter of privacy, as far as I'm aware - at best I think I could ask the other players involved to come forward and volunteer their impressions for you to hear.

I can't require that they have perfect information, read your mind, or have the same intuitions about how an ICly plausible threat would act. When I asked, they gave me sufficient reasoning that squared well enough with the logs, so I come to a sort of opposite conclusion:

The ban length (and ban, even,) here aren't justified; the full responsibility is yours.

___

To go back to Rule 1, Precedent 1 - if you had been killed entirely FNR, without roleplay or any IC reasoning, this would still be an issue for having set the TTV with a death sensor. If you'd had a random event heart attack and fallen over, hadn't succumbed, it'd still be an issue. Bringing the TTV aboard in a way where ultimately, directly, your action with it leads to it going off and causing unjustified kills before EOR is on you. If you'd just brought it, somebody else had grabbed it, and that person then willfully set it off, it wouldn't be on you - it would be on them. The setting of the trigger that caused it to go off here is the conduct at issue in the ban.

The borgs don't have reason to think it'd be on a death sensor. It's a gamble that it isn't, and it's a gamble that even going in on you (or having security do it, or doing anything at all) might not result in you setting the thing off. Going back to the DAGD example, though, there's also no reason to think you won't set it off mid-flight based on the information and impressions they were working on. Rigged remotely, they've got reasonable concern that it'll end up getting used if you're able to use it and keep going back after it. It'd probably be immediately better if they'd gone to drag it out into the wastes, but we can't and don't ask for the perfect play or perfect calls in the moment - just that they be made with a good faith attempt from their IC and reasonably available information at the time.

And if they end up causing harm to humans BECAUSE they attacked a non-human? what then? there should be some level of nuance with the escalation they perform especially if they don't know the full circumstances.
This is the whole reason I even GOT the ban to begin with, because a borg did not have the foresight to think "Do I really need to beat up this lizard to protect the humans?"
if this is by design AND punishable for the non-human being attacked, what's stopping borgs from just slaughtering every non-human on the station at a whim, simply because they *might* harm a human?

It's the requirement that there be something - not nothing - and that it be justified in the laws by human harm (not just a borg's whim) is my best understanding of it.

___

The reason I'm willing to walk back the ban length and offer what I'm about to offer is this: you weren't being malicious, and you weren't being willfully negligent. You've said you won't run a death sensor again, and I appreciate that - that's really the only thing here.

Banning somebody doesn't get others their rounds back. It doesn't have a retributive purpose - rather, it's meant to have a communicative purpose and escalate as necessary towards removing behavior that makes the game worse for everyone. A punitive ban that takes people out of the game is sometimes an unfortunately necessary way to get across 'this is bad, please don't do this.' At a certain point and for certainly egregious conduct, a perma or other heavy ban is a measure to protect the community where we can't reform the behavior or ask people to accept that it was done or might recur. The 24-hour ban for unjustified kills thing is a rough guideline that can be applied not just to unintentional deaths but to very intentional deaths - grief or overescalation - which this was not.

I don't want to stop you taking TTVs to EORG, and I don't believe you're going to run them with death sensors in the future.

Unless you want to object to it on principle, here, and hearing what you're saying more about the content of the note itself than the ban, I'd like to do the following:

- change the note to say "[MRP] Accidentally took out six people and destroyed a large part of the escape shuttle when bringing a death sensor rigged bomb aboard for EORG and succumbing after getting crit by a cyborg as a non-human scientist who saw them deconstructing walls aboard the shuttle and proceeded to attack. Player was talking, not immediately violent, and had only planned to use the bomb for EORG before it was initially taken from them out of concern. Agreed to not use death sensors or other uncontrollable triggers for EORG prep in the future."

- remove the ban whole cloth and leave it with the above note.

Is this agreeable to you?

[DHache]

the note change seems agreeable though it still points at me deconstructing part of the shuttle (I stress again, I was not on the shuttle or interacting with the structure of it during the incident leading to detonation, that should be corrected) and I leave it to you to decide if you want to alter the ban length. I am perfectly okay with serving full sentence, as there are three indisputable facts for upholding the ban anyway: I made the bomb, I set the trigger to a health sensor, and I succumbed while being attacked, causing detonation.

[Higgin]

the note change seems agreeable though it still points at me deconstructing part of the shuttle (I stress again, I was not on the shuttle or interacting with the structure of it during the incident leading to detonation, that should be corrected) and I leave it to you to decide if you want to alter the ban length. I am perfectly okay with serving full sentence, as there are three indisputable facts for upholding the ban anyway: I made the bomb, I set the trigger to a health sensor, and I succumbed while being attacked, causing detonation.

Specifically what was referred to was the deconstruction outside of the shuttle, bodyblocking people trying to get in, and the attempts to get it back when you were aboard - they interpreted the stuff in escape as an effort to mess with the shuttle itself.

I've lifted the ban, lowered the severity, and amended the note to the following:

Banned from the server for 1 week - [MRP] Accidentally took out six people and destroyed a large part of the escape shuttle when bringing a death sensor rigged bomb aboard for EORG and succumbing; player succumbed after getting crit by an Asimov cyborg who saw the player as a non-human scientist attempting to recover their bomb aboard the shuttle and proceeded to attack the player. Player was talking, not immediately violent, and had only planned to use the bomb for EORG before it was initially taken from them out of concern. Agreed to not use death sensors or other uncontrollable triggers for EORG prep in the future. EDIT: Ban lifted and note amended on appeal viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36293

I've lowered the severity (which is really just vibes) down to a minor too, since again - first incident, no malice, and no point making the vibes any worse even if they are just that.

Please let me know if this isn't ultimately agreeable, but I've gone ahead and made the changes - you should be able to get back on the servers and see them live.

If it is, I'll leave the thread up for a bit for closure after your response.

[DHache]

This is much better, thank you for the corrections to the note, and I appreciate the lift on the ban as well. I’ll probably be a while before I get on again regardless (start of a work week) and my main concerns were with the note itself, so i think it’s safe to close this appeal.

[dendydoom]

thank you both for the amicable resolution, i shall lock this and move it to resolved.