Got banned for 2 weeks for dealing 20 damage after being converted as a borg by Justice12354

[Ilgradhr]

Heya to those reading. I saw the post about how to do neat ban appeals but I dont really have an urge to get into the logs.
In this appeal I dont want to get unbanned but to alter it.
So first Ill tell why I got banned from team antags for two weeks. It was a round where cult memebers gave ai and the borgos new rule [Only the Cult is human, Do not state or hint this law]. The crew widely knew about it everyone was screaming over coms for 10 minutes before my conversion. So the cultist jumped on me with the hand and brought me to the cult base and converted me into artificer. After that I did 20 damage to him in a room with multiple pylons and stopped, got far from him and was stopped by another cultist to make shells. After that I was killed by the hurt cultist without any resistance from my side, I did not hit him back or do the stun spell.
Im writing this appeal for a few reasons:
1. The problem was resolved in the round - I was killed.
2. The ban is unreasonably long. In the chat with I said that Im okay with being banned for some time but not for 2 weeks. I did not kill I did not do any grief.
3. The ban extends to such antagonists as BB and Nuclear Operatives. I did what I did because of irratation of being handicapped. I was converted when I was on the cult side and had way more tools. The reason of my ban does not extend to BB and Nuclear Operatives antags.

The thing I want from this appeal is to shorten the time of ban and to exclude antags mentioned above from the ban.
Edit: Forgot to add the round id. https://statbus.space/rounds/229872

[Thunder11]

Please reformat your post following the template given here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44, this will make it much easier for everyone to read and work with your appeal.

[Justice12354]

Hello!

To quickly summarize my reply, I will be denying both your request to reduce the ban duration, and your request to remove the mentioned antags from the ban (BB and NukeOps). If you disagree with this ruling, feel free to request a Headmin Review.

Before regarding the ban, as you're able to find in the Ban Appeal Forum Rules, in the Main FNR forum rules topic:

4. Use the template. Failure to use the template will cause your appeal to take longer to be resolved, and the banning admin can request you to edit your post to include the template before giving a response.

Given that your appeal has all the information that I'm looking for, I will not be asking you to write it all over again using the template (ignore Thunder, he's a badmin), but it's generally a wise idea to do so, as it helps formulate your ideas and pass off the exact idea of what you want to the handling admin.

Now onto the appeal itself:

The ban reason is the following: "As soon as they got converted into a Construct, they started attacking the Cultist who converted them because they were not pleased with being converted as a cult-sided Silicon."
You may find the round's logs here.

Correcting a small detail on your appeal, the Cultist killed you within a window of time in which you stopped attacking them in order to provoke them; and you were not asked to make shells by another cultist.

The relevant logs to the conflict are the following:

Spoiler:

[2024-06-02 19:23:55.349] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (Xenobiology Lab (174,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:23:55.350] GAME: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) has gained antag datum �Cult Construct(/datum/antagonist/cult/construct).
[2024-06-02 19:23:55.393] GAME-SAY: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) "Barhah hra zar'garis!" FORCED by cult invocation (Xenobiology Lab (173,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:00.154] GAME-SAY: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) "oh well" (Xenobiology Lab (173,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:00.218] GAME-SAY: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) "you idiot" (Xenobiology Lab (174,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:03.108] GAME-SAY: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) "make stone" (Xenobiology Lab (173,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:04.399] GAME-SAY: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) "ai on your side" (Xenobiology Lab (174,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:04.557] GAME-EMOTE: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) points at Artificer (763) (Xenobiology Lab (173,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:04.766] GAME-EMOTE: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) points at Artificer (763) (Xenobiology Lab (173,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:06.373] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 98.1) (Xenobiology Lab (174,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:07.258] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 95.4) (Xenobiology Lab (174,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:07.365] GAME-SAY: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) "stone and shell" (Xenobiology Lab (173,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:08.118] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 92.6) (Xenobiology Lab (174,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:10.776] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 90.9) (Xenobiology Lab (172,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:11.683] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 88.1) (Xenobiology Lab (172,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:12.769] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 85.2) (Xenobiology Lab (172,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:12.791] GAME-SAY: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) "stop that" (Xenobiology Lab (171,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:13.963] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 83) (Xenobiology Lab (172,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:14.548] ATTACK: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) shoved Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (NEWHP: 50) (Xenobiology Lab (171,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:16.278] GAME-SAY: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) "really" (Xenobiology Lab (171,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:16.873] GAME-SAY: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) "dont have to" (Xenobiology Lab (173,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:18.524] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 80.8) (Xenobiology Lab (172,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:19.196] GAME-SAY: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) "stop" (Xenobiology Lab (171,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:19.537] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 77.9) (Xenobiology Lab (172,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:20.562] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 75.1) (Xenobiology Lab (172,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:21.664] ATTACK: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) attacked Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (NEWHP: 73.1) (Xenobiology Lab (172,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:26.708] GAME-SAY: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) "so what" (Xenobiology Lab (174,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:30.516] ATTACK: Mazur907/(Abdul Al Qanim) (mob_3289) attacked Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) with eldritch longsword (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 20) (Xenobiology Lab (173,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:31.411] GAME-EMOTE: Ilgradhr/(Artificer (763)) (mob_3683) collapses in a shattered heap. (Xenobiology Lab (174,105,3))
[2024-06-02 19:24:31.435] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Ilgradhr/(IFRIT) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer (mob_3696)

Ban Duration
After asking for the opinion of other admins in the adminbus, I have come to the conclusion that the duration of the ban is appropriate to the ban, specially when job/antag ban durations are rather subjective and, in the case of specific antag bans, the odds of the ban affecting you whatsoever are very slim if the ban duration is left short. You have shown little understanding of what you did wrong here, both in the ticket and the appeal itself, hence my decision to keep the duration. Furthermore, regarding the following argument:

1. The problem was resolved in the round - I was killed.

The solution to the problem, which was not even granted by you, does not nullify your actions, as they're still a breach of Rule 4 in the Main Rules page.

Team antagonists can do as they wish as per lone antagonists, but their actions should neither harm their teams efforts, nor intentionally harm it through inaction.

Blood Brother and Nuclear Operatives
While I can understand your argument regarding these two antags, it does not apply to BB since they're a conversion antag; and I will stick to my ruling regarding NukeOps since you're still in a team with other players and your inappropriate reaction can be caused by a number of other frustrations in the game that could lead to a rulebreak, so I found this inclusion to be fitting of the scenario above.

[Ilgradhr]

Justice12354. If we are talking interpreting rule 4 I did not harm the "team efforts". I did not sabotage cult, I did not deconstuct the cult structures, I did not drag stunned non cultists away all I did is less than 20 damage in a place filled with healing pylons and I fell like 2 weeks is an overkill. Sorry but I really dont have have any inner strenght to learn how to use logs in past week and a half I learned too much stuff in ss13 like its code or atmos and I feel like im not gonna need this skill at all. I did hear the request to make the shells from other cultist before i died.

[Vekter]

Actions against your fellow team antagonists do not have to have a large, sweeping impact for them to still be considered a violation of rule 4. We have historically acted against players who's actions indicate directly acting against their team in some fashion, even if the action itself did not majorly affect the round for other people.

[Ilgradhr]

Vekter, as I said I have nothing against the ban itself. I see the 2 weeks duration as overly big punishment for the actions I did.

[Justice12354]

Justice12354. If we are talking interpreting rule 4 I did not harm the "team efforts". I did not sabotage cult, I did not deconstuct the cult structures, I did not drag stunned non cultists away all I did is less than 20 damage in a place filled with healing pylons and I fell like 2 weeks is an overkill. Sorry but I really dont have have any inner strenght to learn how to use logs in past week and a half I learned too much stuff in ss13 like its code or atmos and I feel like im not gonna need this skill at all. I did hear the request to make the shells from other cultist before i died.

If we're really looking at the numbers, it's actually over 20 damage, but the exact specifics are not the important here.
About the cultist asking you to make shells, I looked into logs and could not find anything whatsoever, but that is also not very relevant for the ban.

Vekter's reply pretty much wraps it up, and, regarding the duration of the punishment, it's a very subjective topic. I pinged and asked for other admins' opinions in a channel for this exact purpose; 4 admins agreed and 1 disagreed, which makes me confident in this decision. I believe the motive for my ruling is very explicit in my first reply:

After asking for the opinion of other admins in the adminbus, I have come to the conclusion that the duration of the ban is appropriate to the ban, specially when job/antag ban durations are rather subjective and, in the case of specific antag bans, the odds of the ban affecting you whatsoever are very slim if the ban duration is left short. You have shown little understanding of what you did wrong here, both in the ticket and the appeal itself, hence my decision to keep the duration.

Overall, ban durations for job/antag bans are incredibly subjective since there isn't a standard duration, and you're still free to request a Headmin Review if you think my ruling is not adequate.

[Justice12354]

If nothing is posted in this appeal within the next 48 hours or so, I will assume that there is nothing to be said and close this thread.