BYOND account: DARK_mir0
Ban type : Server Ban
Ban length: one day
Ban reason: seems to have initiated attacks on a mech for reasons i can't determine, this resulted in the mech getting needlessly destroyed , and resulted in combat with the pilot who shoved them on the shuttle, this player retaliated with 80 damage from chainsaw. eventually killing the other player.
Time ban was placed: 2024-03-04 21:53:16
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry [EU]
Round ID in which ban was placed: 225003
Why are you making this appeal? : the ban is incorrect on some major parts. first I attacked the mech before shuttle arrived because earlier the mech had been blocking the way to shuttle and i did not destroy the mech, as i only hit it once and it did not get destroyed by that one hit, then i came on shuttle and a guy (i didn't know that was the mech pilot) shoved me and made me fall then tried to steal my chainsaw but i was faster to pick it up, then shoved me again making me fall so i picked it up and hit him twice with the chainsaw (yes that isn't reasonable even if he was trying to steal my chainsaw i know), after that i left the area then came back then he shoved me and picked up the chainsaw so i started to laser him down making him fall to his death.
Why should this appeal be accepted? : i was wrong on parts but i believe the story had alot of mistakes making it look worse, and i think that player thought i destroyed the mech that's why he came after me although i shouldn't have hit him twice but i was acting in self defense. all i ask is considering this as my apology/explanation to what happened (i know its only a one day ban but i wanna get off early if possible).
[Iain0] Frank troy - server ban
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iain0
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [Iain0] Frank troy - server ban
Alright, lets have a look over this. Round ID is actually 224999 and I guess I forgot to prefix the ban reason with that. If nothing else I'll correct that.
All logs are taken from https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-224999/ specifically extracts I reference will be a combination of attack log, game log and mech log, filtered by lines containing APLU "Big Bess" OR Lapunny OR Snow Bell OR monkey (170 OR DARK_mir0 (specifically I used the regular expression (APLU "Big Bess"|Lapunny|Snow Bell|monkey .170|DARK_mir0) )
So, firstly, explain the mech "blocking the way to the shuttle", most main hallways are 3 tiles wide, the shuttle has 4 boarding entrances, what exactly were they "blocking" that you had to attack it? You also clearly attacked it more than once. Here's the initial exchange in Departures.
Here we can clearly see the pilot is not even inside the mech, you attack it once. You then attack it again. You then "laugh" and the pilot gets back in to the mech, right in front of you, you now know it had no pilot and now has a pilot. The pilot tells you to stop and you "laugh" and "scream", nothing else. I'm not sure why I thought the mech was destroyed here, other than I know it wasn't really present on the shuttle. You weren't the first person to attack it either, and while this is not relevant for your case, the pilot is having a poor time in departures
Not a lot happens for a few seconds, I guess the mech is getting repaired? Mech logs dont seem to be 'all that' (and yet still better than they once were). Someone does the 'no damage' attack on the mech which seems to get confused by a few people
Again not really relevant to your case but this all feeds into
A sec officer now joins in and hits the mech a couple of times, the damage ends up as good as a single chainsaw hit and they stun the occupant. Having spoken to them they mentioned multiple other people attacking it and assuming it was rogue. I assume thats some combo of the mistaken person, you and the slap/punch happy no damage person. I spoke a bit with them on this topic but ultimately was investigating the ticket from the perspective of the mech pilot who was not really happy that three different people had come up to them and attacked them.
Not much happens for a bit. I guess you ... amuse yourself?
This is when the events on the shuttle kick off, for which I will bwoink you in real time, but was not aware at the time that you've had some prior interaction as I've barely even discovered there's a mech involved by this point and I need to pull special logs to get the mech's perspective (like the mech doesn't register at all on my normal log views, if the ahelper hadn't mentioned a mech in the ticket i'm not sure I'd have realised).
You move on to the shuttle and stand next to the pilot, who despite you claiming not to know who they are, saw them moments earlier when you attacked their mech, as they got inside and told you to stop. They shove you, not really a big deal and well deserved after your random attacks earlier, and you go disproportionately nuts on them. Not sure why you're attackign shuttle windows, NORMALLY this means you're trying to attack someone and missing but you also just seem to be breaking things because ..... you're playing a computer game? lets not ask why you're behaving generally like you're behaving for now.
You claim they tried to steal your chainsaw, but since they failed to do so (you did not shove them nor disarm them to have the chainsaw later) I don't really know how you evidence this, this could very easily just be a "fuck off you griefing asshole" shove from someone who wants to be left alone. Instead you lay into them three times, each hit does about 25 damage (just under) so you hit them for 70-75 damage over a single shove which is over you chainsawing their mech... This doesn't seem cool escalation, didn't at the time and once I got the backstory with the mech this seems real baitey. You fuck up their mech, they shove you, you more than half kill them.
Mech pilot is just pissed off. But note, communicatively pissed off, they're not really trying to attack or kill you, they're just pissed off and want you to leave them alone, very understandable and frankly quite generous on their part
You continue to fuck with them, inbetween your "hobby" of attacking shuttle windows (which assuming these are external windows makes you likely valid, and again the instigator) and they snap. You respond by killing them. Critting them here is fine (not necessarily the whole context is fine, but if someone's out to kill you, you can of course stop them), because they're clearly out for your blood now, AFTER you flashed them after already fucking them up with a chainsaw. But you don't stop here, you go into crit and well past, ploughing the laser into them right until they die. Over something you poorly started and poorly escalated.
Total damage to you, 20 damage, at the VERY END of this encounter. You meanwhile hit their mech, chainsawed them, flashed them, and finally emptied a laser gun into them over something that you /seem/ to have started (because "blocking access" isn't exactly well logged, nor does it really justify your reaction typically)
So
1) Justify why you started any of this. What do you mean "Blocked access to the shuttle".
2) Justify why the chainsaw escalation was deserved or why full on executing them over a situation you may well be the instigator for (at least from their point of view, unless you can evidence otherwise) is justified.
Thanks,
All logs are taken from https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-224999/ specifically extracts I reference will be a combination of attack log, game log and mech log, filtered by lines containing APLU "Big Bess" OR Lapunny OR Snow Bell OR monkey (170 OR DARK_mir0 (specifically I used the regular expression (APLU "Big Bess"|Lapunny|Snow Bell|monkey .170|DARK_mir0) )
So, firstly, explain the mech "blocking the way to the shuttle", most main hallways are 3 tiles wide, the shuttle has 4 boarding entrances, what exactly were they "blocking" that you had to attack it? You also clearly attacked it more than once. Here's the initial exchange in Departures.
Spoiler:
Not a lot happens for a few seconds, I guess the mech is getting repaired? Mech logs dont seem to be 'all that' (and yet still better than they once were). Someone does the 'no damage' attack on the mech which seems to get confused by a few people
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Not much happens for a bit. I guess you ... amuse yourself?
Spoiler:
You move on to the shuttle and stand next to the pilot, who despite you claiming not to know who they are, saw them moments earlier when you attacked their mech, as they got inside and told you to stop. They shove you, not really a big deal and well deserved after your random attacks earlier, and you go disproportionately nuts on them. Not sure why you're attackign shuttle windows, NORMALLY this means you're trying to attack someone and missing but you also just seem to be breaking things because ..... you're playing a computer game? lets not ask why you're behaving generally like you're behaving for now.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
You continue to fuck with them, inbetween your "hobby" of attacking shuttle windows (which assuming these are external windows makes you likely valid, and again the instigator) and they snap. You respond by killing them. Critting them here is fine (not necessarily the whole context is fine, but if someone's out to kill you, you can of course stop them), because they're clearly out for your blood now, AFTER you flashed them after already fucking them up with a chainsaw. But you don't stop here, you go into crit and well past, ploughing the laser into them right until they die. Over something you poorly started and poorly escalated.
Spoiler:
So
1) Justify why you started any of this. What do you mean "Blocked access to the shuttle".
2) Justify why the chainsaw escalation was deserved or why full on executing them over a situation you may well be the instigator for (at least from their point of view, unless you can evidence otherwise) is justified.
Thanks,
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DARKmir0
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:22 pm
Re: [Iain0] Frank troy - server ban
blocked access to shuttle as in was standing in the middle row of the hallway for a few seconds and i said in my appeal i was wrong on parts (this is one of the parts), also i didn't pay attention to the mech pilot so i didn't know it was the same person, as you can see in the log the mech pilot shoves me twice knocking me down for breaking the internal glass window on the shuttle for which i point at them and continue and they shove me again trying to take my chainsaw then i pick it up and attack them for trying to steal my chainsaw
then i flash them as a warning to stop shoving me then they shove me and pick up my chainsaw and start attacking me for which i respond by shooting at them and ending them, i have to clear that after the 2 chainsaw attacks earlier i stopped as i was attacking in self defense because they were TRYING TO PICK UP MY CHAINSAW WHICH THEY SUCCEEDED IN DOING AFTER I FLASH THEM
yeah i was wrong on the mech part and maybe only one chainsaw hit was enough warning but i was right as in that person was trying to pick up the chainsaw and after they succeeded they attacked me.anyways thank you for the time it took to gather the logs.
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► Show Spoiler
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iain0
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [Iain0] Frank troy - server ban
Yeah so I guess my list of summary concerns are
1) Your double attack on the mech isn't really appropriate, is a poor instigation on your part since you seem like you can just walk around it (?)
2) You then react to what *is* only a shove with *three* chainsaw hits in what I'd call poor escalation/overescalation. You can /claim/ you think they're trying to take your saw here but they don't manage it, and I'm not really sure I buy this, their reaction overall until you flash them shows more that they're just miserable/unhappy, pissed off and just want you away from them. They don't actually attack you at all in this period other than shoving.
3) Even after no actual attacks have landed AND they return to using words to try get rid of you, you just cant let it be and flash them once more.
4) Your final self defence is excessive and full on execution.
in addition to this
5) Your player record contains a couple of things in the last hundred hours that could be considered adjacent or similar to this incident, that is the detective incident at 481 hours and the R1 at 453 hours (with this ban at 517 hours). this ultimately makes me less willing to write it off as a one off oddity and thus that leaves this firmly in day ban territory rather than just a note.
As such, I'm still open to discussion on any of these 5 points, but you'll have to counter multiple of them for me to want to consider reducing this. If you wish to do so, or wish to escalate to headmins, let me know, otherwise I'll place a "maintenance" change to the ban wording (that is, add the correct round and tidy up the content to include the explanation for the initial attacks and clear up the ambiguity and request for you to appeal).
Thanks,
1) Your double attack on the mech isn't really appropriate, is a poor instigation on your part since you seem like you can just walk around it (?)
2) You then react to what *is* only a shove with *three* chainsaw hits in what I'd call poor escalation/overescalation. You can /claim/ you think they're trying to take your saw here but they don't manage it, and I'm not really sure I buy this, their reaction overall until you flash them shows more that they're just miserable/unhappy, pissed off and just want you away from them. They don't actually attack you at all in this period other than shoving.
3) Even after no actual attacks have landed AND they return to using words to try get rid of you, you just cant let it be and flash them once more.
4) Your final self defence is excessive and full on execution.
in addition to this
5) Your player record contains a couple of things in the last hundred hours that could be considered adjacent or similar to this incident, that is the detective incident at 481 hours and the R1 at 453 hours (with this ban at 517 hours). this ultimately makes me less willing to write it off as a one off oddity and thus that leaves this firmly in day ban territory rather than just a note.
As such, I'm still open to discussion on any of these 5 points, but you'll have to counter multiple of them for me to want to consider reducing this. If you wish to do so, or wish to escalate to headmins, let me know, otherwise I'll place a "maintenance" change to the ban wording (that is, add the correct round and tidy up the content to include the explanation for the initial attacks and clear up the ambiguity and request for you to appeal).
Thanks,
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Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: [Iain0] Frank troy - server ban
Hey gamer, given that there hasn't been a response to this I'm going to go ahead and move it on if nothing is said by tomorrow.
Vekter wrote:You should be reporting problems because you're wanting to keep the game fair/server healthy, not because you want to see the people who wronged you punished.
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Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: [Iain0] Frank troy - server ban
Alright, shuffling this thread off this mortal coil then.
Vekter wrote:You should be reporting problems because you're wanting to keep the game fair/server healthy, not because you want to see the people who wronged you punished.
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