[Thedragmeme] LMoore - Rule 8 violation not handled properly

[Kolinko]

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Manuel
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: LMoore, Brenden Powers
Admin: Thedragmeme
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 182580
Detailed summary:

• During the start of the round as the Head of Personnel, I was doing my job of pushing paperwork onto people and changing accesses where necessary. No IC issues as time goes on until I see the QM dumping mail in the middle of the hall (Ice Box, so the HOP office sees right into Cargo).
• I yell at the QM in supply comms to not dump the damn mail in the middle of the hall, but to deliver it to people (or hell, maybe even try to keep it organized, at least?). For a while, he refuses to speak to me in supply comms at all and this pisses me off because now I'm thinking he's slacking off.
• I stop what I'm doing and go to confront the QM after it's been too long without any sort of communication. I find him dragging a crate in the middle of cargo, so I stop him and ask him why he's not delivering the mail as he's supposed to. He tells me he's too busy so I tell him he'll be fired if he doesn't deliver it.
• He tells me he's fine with being fired, as if he didn't give a damn that he could lose his employment. No provocation whatsoever. I tell him I'll fire him and strip him of his ID and while I'm on the console to demote him, he uses the time to announce his firing over public comms, which prompts the Captain to yell at me.
• The Captain decides to fire me instead, demoting me to QM. I tell him that part of my job is to make sure people do their job properly, and I'm ignored. He shuts down the line and office shutters and tells me to get out (he called a securitron in too). I tell him he's not going to fire me over retaliation and I won't let him fire me because I love my job (a bit of IC escalation).
• Fast forwarding a bit, I struck the Captain with my baton to escalate further (not in combat mode), got arrested by sec, got stripped down until I was almost naked, and the Captain decides to demote me to clown instead (admittedly funny way to deal with it IC) and wants to send me to permabrig too, but when people take offense to that he changes his mind and takes me to the theater (probably because sending people to perma for such a small reason is reacted to strongly on Manuel).
• The whole time I was yelling at him and sec (who was helping the Captain detain me) and basically resisting as much as I can, because this is all IC and dramatic and I planned on single combat with the Captain to earn my job back.
• Once we arrive in the theater, the Captain strips the rest of my things off and forces me to wear cat ears and a pink clownsuit and rubs me with another item, and even the sec officer that was keeping me detained said this was getting weird and out of hand.
• Of course I blew up after being forced into a role I didn't want and also being harassed in this weird fetishy ERP way. After my cuffs were off I demanded to fight the Captain, several more times. Every time I was ignored so I hit him a few times (barehanded) and demanded to fight him one final time.
• He ignored me again and this time I escalated to hitting him (barehanded) until he was put into crit. After he was put into crit, I took his ID, his baton, his energy gun, his sunglasses... basically everything that wasn't tot objective gear like the disk.
• After that, I ran off, leaving the Captain in crit on the floor in front of the bar because after that I wanted to leave the station. Didn't get far though, and I was arrested by sec again.
• The rest is pretty unimportant, but I was bwoinked by Thedragmeme asking what happened between me and the Cap (to which I assume he must have died or deathgasped and ahelped).
• I explain my side of the story and how uncomfortable I felt being stripped and forced to wear cat ears and a pink suit and that this was ERP.

Before the ticket was closed, Thedragmeme told me I escalated way too far and that the situation was handled.
After the ticket was closed, I figured it was handled and he got booted out, but the Captain walked into the brig and started taunting me and telling me to go out and handle the xenomorphs myself.

I'm not sure why a clear rule 8 violation got a slap on the wrist, but I think offenders of rule 8 should at least be removed from the round so that they can't interact with the person they ERP'd, even if you don't want to outright kick or ban them from the server.

[Drag]

Firstly, I am not will nor ever be at any liberty to tell players what EXACT action was taken against another player. Your privacy as a player is valued and we don't go around sharing this with other non admins because frankly it's none of your damn business. However at the same time I told you it was handled. Just because someone wasn't publicly Perma banned dosent mean I took no action.

This entire situation start to finish was stupid, by the way, ignoring the interaction with the QMs demotion and your demotion (because I don't care, it was all in character(but if you'd like me to care I actually think you were being an asshole towards the QM)) my investigation resulted in finding no actual rule 8 violations. Like at all.

Here is the situation that actually mattered:

- LMoore basically screams his head off about how unfair it is and how shitty the captain is through most of the altercation while being demoted.
- Captain puts LMoore in a clown suit with cat ears and he switches to screaming his head off about perversion and how terrible they are.
- Captain hits him with the skub a few times.
- Betelgeuse the sec ethereal tells the captain it's probably enough at 05:02:17
(SAY Finder559/(Betelgeuse MV) "alright cap that's enough" (135, 143, 3) Theater) )
- Captain does and releases HoP
- HoP proceeds directly to attacking captain eventually resulting in them being crit, makes off with their stuff.

I don't like gatekeeping what people are and are not comfortable with, but this situation just was not. If cat ears were walking rule 8 ban territory we would not have the item in the game in any capacity. I legitimately believe you're just over reacting. You actually managed to escape a note about your over escilation because I in fact was trying to accommodate your feelings.

However at the same time nothing erotic actually occured and the player in question was talked to.

Point of interest: The clown suit you were given was not pink. It was purple.
[2022-05-04 05:00:56.841] ATTACK: LoGTheUnwise/(Alejdrake Madow) LMoore/(Brenden Powers) is having the purple clown suit put on them by LoGTheUnwise/(Alejdrake Madow) (Theater (133,143,3))

This was after you were stripped of just your jumpsuit approximately two minutes prior.

I will not be upholding this complaint. You fucked around (demoting the QM for a lame reason) and found out (getting demoted yourself). Do I think the humiliation was a little too far? Yes. I handled it. End of story.

[Kolinko]

Firstly, I am not will nor ever be at any liberty to tell players what EXACT action was taken against another player. Your privacy as a player is valued and we don't go around sharing this with other non admins because frankly it's none of your damn business. However at the same time I told you it was handled. Just because someone wasn't publicly Perma banned dosent mean I took no action.

This entire situation start to finish was stupid, by the way, ignoring the interaction with the QMs demotion and your demotion (because I don't care, it was all in character(but if you'd like me to care I actually think you were being an asshole towards the QM)) my investigation resulted in finding no actual rule 8 violations. Like at all.

Here is the situation that actually mattered:

- LMoore basically screams his head off about how unfair it it and how shitty the captain is through most of the altercation while being demoted.
- Captain puts LMoore in a clown suit with cat ears and he switches to screaming his head off about perversion and how terrible they are.
- Captain hits him with the skub a few times.
- Betelgeuse the sec ethereal tells the captain it's probably enough at 05:02:17
(SAY Finder559/(Betelgeuse MV) "alright cap that's enough" (135, 143, 3) Theater) )
- Captain does and releases HoP
- HoP proceeds directly to attacking captain eventually resulting in them being crit, makes off with their stuff.

I don't like gatekeeping what people are and are not comfortable with, but this situation just was not. If cat ears were walking rule 8 ban territory we would not have the item in the game in any capacity. I legitimately believe you're just over reacting. You actually managed to escape a note about your over escilation because I in fact was trying to accommodate your feelings.

However at the same time nothing erotic actually occured and the player in question was talked to.

Point of interest: The clown suit you were given was not pink. It was purple.
[2022-05-04 05:00:56.841] ATTACK: LoGTheUnwise/(Alejdrake Madow) LMoore/(Brenden Powers) is having the purple clown suit put on them by LoGTheUnwise/(Alejdrake Madow) (Theater (133,143,3))

This was after you were stripped of just your jumpsuit approximately two minutes prior.

I will not be upholding this complaint. You fucked around (demoting the QM for a lame reason) and found out (getting demoted yourself). Do I think the humiliation was a little too far? Yes. I handled it. End of story.

I'm not asking for what exactly happened to them in their notes (because frankly I don't care either), I am asking why you didn't, at least, remove them from the round because of how weird and creepy they were (which you agreed with in the ticket) so I didn't have to interact with them again.

"8. Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed."
No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants.

Purely out of context: Cuffing someone, stripping them, and dragging them off to somewhere to dress them up in cat ears and feminine outerwear can be construed as creepy or erotic, regardless if anything explicit was spoken, would violate this rule.
I really shouldn't have to explain why making people into catpeople is considered sexual or creepy, because it's obvious due to the existence of "catgirl/boy" fetish shit. There's even a reference to Rule 8 violations in the damn felinid article on the wiki.

If he had just stripped me and put in a standard clown suit and clown mask (because he wanted to demote me to clown), there wouldn't be an issue, but he clearly had a reason to put on those specific items and that's what made it feel so gross.
Also, what's with the comment "I don't like gatekeeping what people are and are not comfortable with, but this situation just was not."? The ERP wasn't directed at you, nor was it something so simple and mundane either.
We don't call stripping and putting on prison clothes ERP, do we? It's because it's mundane/it's expected for an IC reason (being put in prison/permabrig).

[Drag]

The context of the matter is you were being demoted, demoted to a clown to be exact. You are being demoted and by extension you are allowed to be cuffed and stripped, that is not sexual in any capacity. The outfit you were given was purple, what the fuck do you mean by feminine? I didn't remove them from the round because they didn't do anything wrong. In fact I would say this situation was 100% on you and I had the right to take a lot more action against you but didn't as an extension of good faith. From my investigation the cat ears were a non malicious joke because you were being a constant pain in the ass. In your ticket you claimed you were being wrongly "touched" and the only thing that the logs showed was you being hit with skub. Additional as far as I'm aware the color of job clothing for the job you were given was random. I in no capacity have found any actual rule 8 violations and I will continue to rule as such.

[Drag]

Of course, you are welcome to try and get the headmins to agree with you. However until then my stance has not changed, at this point I have nothing else to say as I have said my piece and stand by it.

[Mothblocks]

We are not upholding this complaint and do not disagree with the ruling.

Your belief, bolded by yourself, is that being forced to wear cat ears and a pink clownsuit is erotic/creepy to the point of breaching rule 8.

In the same bullet point list before hand, you say the following:

got arrested by sec, got stripped down until I was almost naked, and the Captain decides to demote me to clown instead (admittedly funny way to deal with it IC)

You were arrested and demoted by sec, being stripped down makes sense. There is nothing erotic there.

You were being demoted to clown, which you have no issues with.

The captain then put a clown suit on you, and that is when alarm bells start ringing. That doesn't really seem to make sense to me, and the cat ears don't affect much.

The captain was spoken to about how what they did could be perceived, Drag replied to you with "I will handle that" in your ticket when you brought it up, but we don't take issue with how they handled this.