[Nervere] - Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:37 pm #497456

Byond account and character name: Wilchen, Sherrie Williams
Banning admin: Nervere
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server
Ban reason and length: Long ban reason

Spoiler:

Time ban was placed (including time zone): Months ago, i can't find the original date due to the ban being reapplied.
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Your side of the story: I commited fucked up shit that round, went too far with what i did to the prisoner. I'm sorry and regret my decisions.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I've been playing on other servers without issues, mostly beestation. However, I miss people from /tg/station and this is my main motivation to stay out of trouble.

Post by **Arianya** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:36 am #497574

I've edited your thread title to match the format.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:42 pm #497650

I fully intend for this appeal to be a back-and-forth between you and I.
I want to examine different parts of what you did and why. I want to start out with what you've posted so far, since there is so little to start on. I will go over the logs at a later post when I have more time to do so.

Shezza wrote:I'm sorry and regret my decisions.

We take rule 8 seriously, and this is such a short explanation for your actions.
Why'd you do it, and how can you convince me that you won't do it again?

Shezza wrote:I've been playing on other servers without issues, mostly beestation.

Do you have a voucher from anyone leading the BeeStation administration?

imsxz · Post by **imsxz** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:31 pm #497661

Arianya wrote:If you're being bantering in a risque manner with your friend, it's pretty much whatever (but don't ERP). If you're involving random people in your risque mannerisms then it starts to become an issue, especially when they may not like or want such, it's best to lean on the side of caution.

Nervere wrote:Some admins have been ruling poorly with rule 8, so I’m going to set this in stone.
Rule 8 is only for cases of ERP and, for some cases, targeted sexual harassment. Cobby’s third point about gaining an OOC reputation “for making lewd comments” has some merit, because historically people who have been excessively creepy have faced punishment, but punishments for such a thing should be applied in only the most extreme of cases. There’s always going to be special exceptions, but this is really the extent of what rule 8 covers.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=19717

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:43 pm #497700

Nervere wrote:We take rule 8 seriously, and this is such a short explanation for your actions.
Why'd you do it, and how can you convince me that you won't do it again?

It was a stupid decision in the heat of the moment, i was questioning them about why they tried to capture me. She explained that it was because i was trying to stun her.
Then she mentioned me "touching her with that thick baton of mine"(not exact quote), which i found funny so i started prodding them with a unpowered stunbaton (help intent with unpowered stunbaton, not a typed out me verb), to which they responded with moaning. I percieved this as just a dumb joke and playfullness from the assistant who at the time i thought of as a friend as we've played several rounds heavily interacting with eachother. So I continued by asking them "what if i turn it on" and stunning the assistant with the baton (help intent with powered baton, again not typed out me verb).

A stupid thing to do in the first place, I don't intend to repeat it and get banned again. I definitely learned my lesson to not subject people to this treatement.

Nervere wrote:Do you have a voucher from anyone leading the BeeStation administration?

CthulhuOnIce#1234/Kev, host of Beestation said he's willing to vouch.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:20 am #497752

I will post again tomorrow to reply to the above, but for now, here's an image from CthuluOnIce confirming his voucher.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:26 am #497760

[2018-09-08 16:33:48.155] SAY: 16:33:48.155] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "you tried to touch me with that thick baton of yours" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:33:54.175] SAY: 16:33:54.175] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "like this?" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:33:57.805] EMOTE: 16:33:57.805] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:01.558] SAY: 16:34:01.558] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "p-please no!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:09.688] SAY: 16:34:09.688] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "you like that" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:10.931] SAY: 16:34:10.931] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "don't you" (Brig (197, 137, 2))(edited)
[2018-09-08 16:34:13.144] SAY: 16:34:13.144] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "S-Sherrie n-not here!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:23.735] SAY: 16:34:23.735] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "N-no I-I d-don't!!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:32.331] SAY: 16:34:32.331] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "what if i turn it on" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:33.174] SAY: 16:34:33.174] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "I d-don't like t-that at all!!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))(edited)
[2018-09-08 16:34:34.496] EMOTE: 16:34:34.496] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:49.725] EMOTE: 16:34:49.725] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))

Post by **Hulkamania** » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:57 pm #498413

It's not an exaggeration to say that you're infamous in the community as a whole. I can acknowledge you have a voucher from another server, which is a good start.

Why do you think you personally deserve to be unbanned? We've kept people with your level of history away in the past despite repeated appeals, what makes your case different compared to those?

I'm also somewhat curious why you want to rejoin at all, if you're an administrator on another server. What makes you want to come back to /tg/?

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:15 pm #498417

imsxz wrote:-snip-

You're right that rule 8 enforcement was in a bit of a limbo at the time, but Wilchen's actions still violated rule 8.
To demonstrate, here's the full relevant logs between Wilchen and Eskjjlj. These logs were taken from Bagil round 93616, and were filtered to include the keyword wilchen or eskjjlj, case insensitive.
This is the selection of logs I considered when applying Wilchen's ban. Every line that included "sneezes." was filtered out for ease of reading.

Logs:

Spoiler:

So what we have here is definitely against rule 8. It was consensual and did not include emotes, but it was still lewd and clearly pushing the limits on what we allow for.
Namely, the verbal interaction between the two players is where the violation of rule 8 lies.

Shezza wrote:It was a stupid decision in the heat of the moment

I would like clarification on what you mean by this. This was interaction across several minutes that doesn't quite seem like the adrenaline of a moment can cause.
I am understanding if you just did something fucking dumb and then regretted it later. That's what most bans are. If this is the case, you're better off saying it.
Your note history before the ban wasn't great but wasn't terrible. If you're able to be gone for 9 months and behave yourself elsewhere then your IC behavior is probably fine.

The elephant in the room that people want addressed is your OOC behavior in the community. To that end, I'd like to start addressing this by having you answer what Hulkamania posted above.

Super Aggro Crag · Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:17 am

a few years ago shezza messages me completely unprompted telling me to kill myself while i was experiencing financial difficulties

he then took screenshots of this event and posted them in jmadison's discord to try and get ass-pats for it

when i told him to fuck off and called him a dumb polack, he tried to get me banned from multiple discords for racism

he was then banned from sligcord when i posted screencaps. i lost my original screencaps because my old phone broke, but luckily, goofball used to be in jmadison's discord and saved the very screencaps shezza made.

i would prefer it if he were not a member of this community.

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:06 pm #499045

Nervere wrote:The elephant in the room that people want addressed is your OOC behavior in the community. To that end, I'd like to start addressing this by having you answer what Hulkamania posted above.

Hulkamania wrote:Why do you think you personally deserve to be unbanned? We've kept people with your level of history away in the past despite repeated appeals, what makes your case different compared to those?

I would like to bring the example of Elyina here since they've been
Despite them doing really wrong things in the past that were seen as terrible by the community, given the chance they have reformed. Even became a good admin again.
What makes my case different from other permabanned people?
I have many friends playing who would like me to play the game with them again, a lot of players and admins said i've improved/mellowed out.
@Fract'#7500 said that he is willing to confirm that i did improve my behaviour.

Hulkamania wrote:I'm also somewhat curious why you want to rejoin at all, if you're an administrator on another server. What makes you want to come back to /tg/?

I explained some of the motivation behind this in my OP, I miss my playing with my friends that play on /tg/. I've been repeatedly asked to appeal by many people.

Nervere wrote:
Shezza wrote:It was a stupid decision in the heat of the moment
I would like clarification on what you mean by this. This was interaction across several minutes that doesn't quite seem like the adrenaline of a moment can cause.
I am understanding if you just did something fucking dumb and then regretted it later. That's what most bans are. If this is the case, you're better off saying it.
Your note history before the ban wasn't great but wasn't terrible. If you're able to be gone for 9 months and behave yourself elsewhere then your IC behavior is probably fine.

Thats what I meant by "it was a stupid decision in the heat of the moment"
I did a really dumb thing, i do regret it.

Super Aggro Crag wrote:a few years ago shezza messages me completely unprompted telling me to kill myself while i was experiencing financial difficulties

he then took screenshots of this event and posted them in jmadison's discord to try and get ass-pats for it

when i told him to fuck off and called him a dumb polack, he tried to get me banned from multiple discords for racism

he was then banned from sligcord when i posted screencaps. i lost my original screencaps because my old phone broke, but luckily, goofball used to be in jmadison's discord and saved the very screencaps shezza made.

i would prefer it if he were not a member of this community.

I can't recall if i apologized to you already, but i'm sorry how i treated you.

I really thought you've forgiven me for this.
I'm not really sure how did i wrong you afterwards for you to doubleback on you forgiving me (from the screenshot i assumed you did forgive me).
Accept my apologies again.

Super Aggro Crag · Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:50 pm

Screenshot is taken out of context, that's me saying you should be unbanned from the Sligcord discord channel, not the tgstation13 byond server.

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:22 am #499063

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Screenshot is taken out of context, that's me saying you should be unbanned from the Sligcord discord channel, not the tgstation13 byond server.

Are you sure?
I thought you meant the server.
You didn't mention sligcord at all and you seemed to be talking to armhullen in one of them.

https://discordapp.com/channels/3268221 ... 8015342592
https://discordapp.com/channels/3268221 ... 0143856642

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:29 am

Yes, I am sure. Also, in those logs, you admit to ban evading by using the name "Shezza's Alt" as well as admit you took screencaps of me calling you a dumb polack and saying I wish the Nazis killed your grandparents simply to try to get me banned for racism after you DMed me telling me to kill myself.

Post by **Hulkamania** » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:46 am #499185

We've voted to deny this appeal.

First I'll start with the vouchers. While it's not a hard and fast rule, generally with a voucher you tell us what station to look out for and we'll contact them. I spoke with Fract, a citadel admin, as you suggested but I also spoke with one of their head admins, who explained to me the circumstances around your ban there. Fract himself is a friend of yours and a member of your personal discord server and I can't really trust them to give an unbiased opinion. As for your other voucher, I spoke with the head admin at bee station and he informed me that your record isn't entirely spotless there either, including some recent activity. So with both of those in mind neither voucher is particularly valid for this case.

As far as if Crag had forgiven you or not and reading the logs on it, it has sort of devolved into a "my word versus his word" scenario and there's little we can do to pick a side on that one impartially. What we CAN take note of is you telling them to kill themselves, and how remorselessly and carelessly you mocked them for it. We can't really overlook something like that, or that Sticky has come forth and said that you sent them skinned animal pictures when you found out they were vegan. That's harassment at the very least and isn't something we want around.

Finally, in speaking with all the admin team about this we we had difficulties finding very many team members who supported the ban being lifted. I personally didn't know you much at all when you played and have had to rely on history and information that I have gathered up, and I can say that there has not been many redeeming factors in any of those stories. Just about the only I've been able to find that "you've changed" are the people who are your personal friends saying as much.

There have been others who have been less of a negative influence on the community than you have and they have been turned away. The idea that we should let someone back who has proven themselves in the past to enjoy harassing others and being a toxic personality is not one we think can improve the community in any way.

/tg/Station 13

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