Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

[Nalzul]

I've been rolling chef a lot lately and my big gimmick has been making Arnold pizza and keeping an arm count for the hilarity. Usually, I'll pop 2-3 pizzas on my tables and let people go for it themselves. However, there's always somebody who gets overly mad about it and starts to complain to the AI about it being 'harm', and a borg is dispatched as quickly. I always tell the borg that it's self-harm [it only removes your arm if you eat it yourself, if you have it force fed it does nothing], and then tell them to go away as a law 2 command. All borgs, to date, then promptly module to janiborg and trashbag my pizza and disposal it, all under law 1. Is Arnold pizza really a law 1 violation?

[Anonmare]

It's not a Law 1 violation.

It would only be a violation if it was, in some way, disguised or forcefed to someone who ate it without knowing the risks or consenting to it. If the silicons don't listen, ahelp them.

[subject217]

i cannot believe this is a real policy thread thank you basilman

[zxaber]

This is quite clearly self harm, in the same way a rage cage is self harm. But then, I've seen AIs get in a fit over rage cages too.

[Farquaar]

Doesn't it count as poisoning someone unless you tell everybody who comes by that eating it will cost them an arm?

[RandolfTheMeh]

Doesn't it count as poisoning someone unless you tell everybody who comes by that eating it will cost them an arm?

Better than hot chocolate costing them an arm and a leg amirite

[Anonmare]

Doesn't it count as poisoning someone unless you tell everybody who comes by that eating it will cost them an arm?

It's obviously dangerous and silicon policy has a built-in exception that harm is not harm if it's consented to. Willingly eat it would imply consent.

[Farquaar]

Doesn't it count as poisoning someone unless you tell everybody who comes by that eating it will cost them an arm?

It's obviously dangerous and silicon policy has a built-in exception that harm is not harm if it's consented to. Willingly eat it would imply consent.

How is it obviously dangerous? It's description doesn't say anything about bodily harm coming to the consumer, and it looks like a normal pizza.

ArnoldPizza.png (930 Bytes) Viewed 7794 times

"Hello, you've reached Arnold's pizza shop. I'm not here now, I'm out killing pepperoni."
"I come over, maybe I give you a pizza, maybe I break off your arm."

OOC, it is certain that there will be players, new or otherwise, that haven't seen anyone eat this pizza before, and won't know that it's poison. IC, why would anybody know that eating a pizza will blow your arm off?

The pizza is a hazard that any reasonable silicon would take off the front table if there was no clear warning to potential diners.

[Anonmare]

Fine, I'll add a very obvious and clear warning to the description. It's not supposed to be the silicon's job to fun police, that's security's.

[Anonmare]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/41760

[confused rock]

hhnngh you're gonna make me say it anonmare
I'm gonna say it

Spoiler:

H U G B O X

Actually, it IS silicon's job to ruin fun.

[Nalzul]

Hugbox PR but if it'll stop shitter silicons I'm for it. Some old players ate it anyway for the meme [and one round medical actually had a limb regrower economy going on], but if you were new enough to be fooled by arnold pizza you'd probably not call for the AI.

edit: wtf I thought I submitted this

[Farquaar]

I personally don't care whether there's a warning or not, since I think actively deceiving people into losing their arms is pretty funny. Silicons should still be able to throw out poisonous food if there's no warning however, as it's their job to prevent traitors from crippling their targets harmful pranks

[confused rock]

A description warning still wont' stop silicons anyways, since plenty of people will just walk up to the chef table, look at the pizza and eat it, no examining, just wants food. because 99% of the time the food is safe, that usually works for them.

[Cik]

This is quite clearly self harm, in the same way a rage cage is self harm. But then, I've seen AIs get in a fit over rage cages too.

it's only self harm if you are punching yourself

note: it's fine if it's a slave-lizard gladiator pit or something

[Atlanta-Ned]

What is Arnold pizza referencing anyway?

[Boris]

Ned the fact that you've never watched this is painful to me.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Not knowing what a forced meme is is a good thing imo.

Also this sounds like it falls under self-harm

[oranges]

Frankly this entire thing sounds like an IC conflict and therefore absolutely nothing, including code changes, needs to be done

[imsxz]

solution is to remove inaction clause

[bman]

ladies and gentlemen.... we got em....

[confused rock]

In general, I'd say the "self harm aint actual harm" is too vague regardless. There will always be borgs stopping stuff like borgings, but I have seen AIs go as far as to refuse to help people when a threat to the station like xenos/megafauna/murderboners etc was running around the station, because their philosophy was that anyone who got close to the thing was getting themselves killed. At the same time, the more we restrict people, the less varied the rounds can get.

[Cobby]

Anything that you participate in knowing it will hurt you is self harm. It’s vague to cover a lot of examples.

If you wanted variability idk why you’d go on the role that by default has to answer certain problems the same way constantly

[Screemonster]

if a chemist left a bunch of pills on the counter labelled THESE PILLS WILL KILL YOU and containing a chemical mix that will indeed kill you, would silicons be obliged to throw them away after being ordered by the chemist not to?

[Anonmare]

If they're properly labelled and you were ordered explicitly not to destroy them - you have no grounds to defy that order as established in silicon policy.

If it was mislabelled as medication, then you'd have room for debate.

[WarbossLincoln]

this is different than clearly labeled death pills. Arnold Pizza is only harmful if you willingly eat it yourself. You can't be force fed it, you can't grind it up and inject it into regular food like floor pills.

[Cobby]

Unpopular opinion: Arnold pizza is a stupid item and it's functionality should be changed to not cause human harm by eating it.

[Actionb]

Unpopular opinion: dont blame the silicons for trying to stop even the dumbest shit that can cause harm.
Even more unpopular opinion: also dont blame the silicons for not trying to stop even the dumbest shit that can cause harm.
They're human players after all. Stop trying to pretend they're omniscient and thus make the perfect scapegoat if shit doesn't go your way.
If a borg is being shit, suck it up and deal with it. That player probably would have been just as shit as an assistant.

[bman]

Unpopular opinion: Arnold pizza is a stupid item and it's functionality should be changed to not cause human harm by eating it.

toddler detected