Reignite the Artyom Fire

[NikNakFlak]

Maybe, each and every single Arty player suddenly became busy or died or something but eithed way, artyom looks like It died for good. Naturally I refuse to accept this. I have a heavy preference to metastation and the various interesting features on arty such as dismemberment and the like and I prefer to play it over sybil. I like both servers, sybil and arty, and I more or less want a server two population again, so the time has come.

This isn't a "artyom is dead" thread. This is a "what do we do now thread?"
Scrap Artyom and move most code changes over to /tg/ and then rekindke basil?
Rekindle artyom somehow with things like planned playtimes in an attempt to get the players back?
Server player limits?

All arguments that have come up before but this time, we really only have 1 populated server now. The everlasting sybil. It doesnt matter to me what happens, I just want a populated server 2 to play on.

disclaimer: if the grammer and sentencss for this paragraph looks retarded, its because im on my phone and its hard as hell to typr

[Remie Richards]

Scrap Artyom and move most code changes over to /tg/...

This has basically already been decided.

[Scott]

Server limits on Sybil? For what purpose exactly? If people don't want to play on the backwater servers don't force them to.

[Cipher3]

the backwater servers

Spoiler:

This mentality is just so bad.

Scrap Artyom and move most code changes over to /tg/...

This has basically already been decided.

I'm seeing you saying this on enough threads that are actually talking about actively doing stuff with Artyom that it's worth some thought on not doing.

[Remie Richards]

I keep mentioning it because as far as I'm aware, it's what Rock and I agreed on.

[ColonicAcid]

The fire rises?

[Bluespace]

limiting sybil pop would just have more people spamming connect, they won't play on artyom.

artyom is boring.

[Miauw]

limiting sybil pop would just have more people spamming connect, they won't play on artyom.

artyom is boring.

why exactly is this?
because there is nobody playing on there.
if more people play there it'll be less boring.

that said, i don't really want two sybils, I want good ol Basil back with it's slow-ish rounds and general lack of shitlery.

[Lovecraft]

I played on Artyom pretty faithfully starting at the point where everyone left Basil (thanks to Startoad coming in every single round promoting hype), then I moved and was too busy to set up for a month, and when I came back the server was really, really dull, underpopulated, and missing all of my favorite people.
If we bump off Artyom and go back to Basil, getting rid of most of the newcode, would that bring other people back? I wouldn't mind playing with /tg/ again if it was as fun if not funner as other places.

[peoplearestrange]

that said, i don't really want two sybils, I want good ol Basil back with it's slow-ish rounds and general lack of shitlery.

I second this.

Really, re-name aryom to Basil, keep everything else the same remove current Basil. Problems solved.

[Mandurrrh]

Long before it died we gave you guys plenty of ideas to keep it alive but now that its dead its dead. In the end it was just far too familiar low pop and avoiding favorites and people I can't stand coughcough became an active part of my game. I enjoyed it more when there was a constant flow that I forgot who I disliked/liked after every round. Not only did I have my own personal grudges building up but I felt like I couldn't break free from this assumption players had about me and my character bc of the low pop heavy reputation. I felt like I couldn't speak up and ask for help without someone bias bc of personal dislike shooting me down but not just a normal shut down it got personal because we all knew each others characters way too well. There were good rounds but they didn't really make up for the rounds I ended up in tears because of how frustrated I was or how mean I felt certain people could be. There was this elitist attitude and drama none of us were involved in that isolated our player base. I would get so excited when Sybil crashed and they came to play only to have them met with "GET OUTSYBIL WE DON'T WANT YOUR KIND HERE" in ooc and back to us complaining about our dying server. I think if you want to revive artyom or at least the player base you should come down from the admin ivory tower and actually listen to us. Go back and read the 'artyom' dying threads to see how many ideas from our players were given to you guys. I didn't see any even acknowledged let alone acted upon. Even if you didn't see exactly why they thought it was a good idea what did we have to lose in trying out some player advised changes? Not making an active effort has got is here. We only have so much power as players. Our voices and ideas are even second string to admins let alone pur actual ability to impliment features or events but some good ideas were offered up. Time to go back and read what our players have been telling you since the original split. I'd like to point out also how well the TS group chat went and how we were all able to talk and toss stuff out in a less formal environment. Get the community together. Building a solid community is all you need to keep any server populated.

[Mandurrrh]

that said, i don't really want two sybils, I want good ol Basil back with it's slow-ish rounds and general lack of shitlery.

I second this.

Really, re-name aryom to Basil, keep everything else the same remove current Basil. Problems solved.

Just want to add this is literally what every player has been telling you guys to do since the split. We are all just waiting around for Basil to come back... No offense but FUCK artyom.

[Lovecraft]

that said, i don't really want two sybils, I want good ol Basil back with it's slow-ish rounds and general lack of shitlery.

I second this.

Really, re-name aryom to Basil, keep everything else the same remove current Basil. Problems solved.

Just want to add this is literally what every player has been telling you guys to do since the split. We are all just waiting around for Basil to come back... No offense but FUCK artyom.

But will Sanic Speeds come with it

[Mandurrrh]

that said, i don't really want two sybils, I want good ol Basil back with it's slow-ish rounds and general lack of shitlery.

I second this.

Really, re-name aryom to Basil, keep everything else the same remove current Basil. Problems solved.

Just want to add this is literally what every player has been telling you guys to do since the split. We are all just waiting around for Basil to come back... No offense but FUCK artyom.

But will Sanic Speeds come with it

We are spoiled. Hyperzine/meth rehab facility on Basil just incase

[Miauw]

just renaming the server won't fix anything.
Basil was the best server, running the best map and good code.
if you rename it everything will stay the same but I will just have to say "old basil" in my posts instead of "basil".

Hopefully things will improve with the code merge.

[Reimoo]

So when can we expect the changes on Artyom to move over to /tg/?

[Spacemanspark]

I started playing on Paradise.
Why?
Like Mandurhh said, too many metagrudges, too much faveoritism, too many idiots who were either willing to fuck up my round because "SHIT MAN REKT SPACEMAN AGAIN HUEHUEHUE.", or because I had people who were willing to follow my advise instantly just because I was playing Matthew (A lot of people seemed to like Matt.).
And I stopped playing on Sybil because of the many people who validhunt constantly.
I still play on Artyom occasionally, but mainly just to screw around/ Paradise went down/ Paradise is lagging too much.

[Remie Richards]

So when can we expect the changes on Artyom to move over to /tg/?

ｗｈｅｎ　ｈｅｌｌ　ｆｒｅｅｚｅｓ　ｏｖｅｒ．．．

Nah, no timeframe was really mentioned. It's at the behest of the content creator to move their stuff over, or ask someone else to port it for them.

[Mandurrrh]

I started playing on Paradise.
Why?
Like Mandurhh said, too many metagrudges, too much faveoritism, too many idiots who were either willing to fuck up my round because "SHIT MAN REKT SPACEMAN AGAIN HUEHUEHUE.", or because I had people who were willing to follow my advise instantly just because I was playing Matthew (A lot of people seemed to like Matt.).
And I stopped playing on Sybil because of the many people who validhunt constantly.
I still play on Artyom occasionally, but mainly just to screw around/ Paradise went down/ Paradise is lagging too much.

I'm on vg and since its baycode it's like playing a new version also there are some familiar faces popping in makes me feel better. I'd love to come back to tg full time if there was a place for me.

[ColonicAcid]

>nobody baneposted with me

y-you too g-guys

[Jalleo]

I have to be honest here I stopped playing on basil long before artyom came about I love metacides map I love how there was some more RP and longer rounds but I hated how it was always the exact same people pretty much in the same positions. There comes a point to which people get sick of one playstyle or server play. I had some of the most fun on tg servers. I dont consider them different the issue I see here is people fussing over almost nothing. I am not happy that artyom crashed like it did but I didn't play on it for one reason its always the same players. Please stop fussing about it over the forums like this you cannot bring back the server unless a miracle happens. I hope it does happen but it probably wont. Just try and make do with what you have and the biggest thing that you can do is if you want to try and resurrect a server dojt try and bring back old people bring in new faces. Make do with the time left create as many events as you can. Make the time left with it as good as possible. Dont try to hide go out with a bang.

[Tokiko2]

I miss Basil. It had the perfect population in my opinion, especially right before the Artyom split happened. Not too many and not too few.

[Cipher3]

Artyom and Basil are both options right now though and they both have 0 people. The only draw Artyom is taking from Basil's playerbase at the moment is psychological. Sybil just has 2.5 servers' worth of people and somehow people aren't bothered by this. It bothers me though, because it's retarded.

[captain sawrge]

I was the binding force keeping Artyom alive and with my death ruin has come.

[NikNakFlak]

I have to be honest here I stopped playing on basil long before artyom came about I love metacides map I love how there was some more RP and longer rounds but I hated how it was always the exact same people pretty much in the same positions. There comes a point to which people get sick of one playstyle or server play. I had some of the most fun on tg servers. I dont consider them different the issue I see here is people fussing over almost nothing. I am not happy that artyom crashed like it did but I didn't play on it for one reason its always the same players. Please stop fussing about it over the forums like this you cannot bring back the server unless a miracle happens. I hope it does happen but it probably wont. Just try and make do with what you have and the biggest thing that you can do is if you want to try and resurrect a server dojt try and bring back old people bring in new faces. Make do with the time left create as many events as you can. Make the time left with it as good as possible. Dont try to hide go out with a bang.

I disagree with this statement heavily. I believe something can be done, that's why I posted about it. You displayed your statement as fact, when it is opinion.

[Steelpoint]

What makes people play on Sybil over Artyom to such a large degree?

It could be population, Sybil has the most consistent, and large, user population which means your guaranteed to be able to play on the server at any time. However Artyom does occasionally, usually when Sybil is down, get a healthy population, but that dies off quickly as people move back to Sybil.

So what is making people stay away from Artyom.

Could it be the map? Well not really, Sybil did have a map swap event a while ago and that did not heavily affect the population for the few weeks it was on.

Could it be the playerbase? Possibly, from my own experience the Artyom population does have a "holier than thou" attitude at times, not to get on the topic of metafriends (ergh). Sybils population is so large that it is not really a problem as the bad eggs are usually silenced out under the weight of everyone else. A bad playerbase acts as miasma to players.

Could it be gameplay mechanics? Again, possibly. The hot topic between the two code bases seems to be the movement speed, as well as other minor differences. When your going from Sybil to Artyom you discover that many things you have adapted to and learnt on Sybil are useless or nullified on Artyom. So you decide to go back to Sybil.

Could it just be the lack of anything exciting going on? I think so, in my times on Artyom the rounds tend to last for several hours, have very few people, and are almost always Traitor rounds with one or two Traitors who did nothing for that entire time, or were captured/killed. Sybil on the other hand has quicker rounds, usually from 30 minutes to an hour, with a great selection of fun game modes, and there are usually enough antags so that at least one or two of them will be doing something.

-------

At this point Artyom is just a corpse, giving it CPR is a waste of everyone's time as the opportunity to make something good out of Artyom died a long time ago. The only feasible action at this point, and that is what is going on afaik, is to terminate Artyom's life support and move back to Basil.

The biggest challenge here will be deciding what code/mechanics changes will be ported over.

I honestly think the differences between Basil and Sybil, code wise, should be as minimal as possible, the more similar the two servers are in terms of mechanics, the more likely you'll get people from Sybil to play on Basil to repopulate its population.

There will need to be a good discussion on the changes that get moved over, such as run speed.

[mrpain]

I went to Artyom once. I was literally playing by myself.

Maybe this just isnt a three server community. Have you guys thought of that? Not to be a dick or anything, but it's probably true. Sorry.

[Scott]

Didn't Artyom kill Basil?

[Septavius]

Didn't Artyom kill Basil?

and itself

[Miauw]

I went to Artyom once. I was literally playing by myself.

Maybe this just isnt a three server community. Have you guys thought of that? Not to be a dick or anything, but it's probably true. Sorry.

everything we have always done has proven that this isn't a three server community.
you don't have to tell us that :V

we can't support three servers, and basil was basically due for demolition when artyom started, it just never got taken down.

[Jalleo]

I have to be honest here I stopped playing on basil long before artyom came about I love metacides map I love how there was some more RP and longer rounds but I hated how it was always the exact same people pretty much in the same positions. There comes a point to which people get sick of one playstyle or server play. I had some of the most fun on tg servers. I dont consider them different the issue I see here is people fussing over almost nothing. I am not happy that artyom crashed like it did but I didn't play on it for one reason its always the same players. Please stop fussing about it over the forums like this you cannot bring back the server unless a miracle happens. I hope it does happen but it probably wont. Just try and make do with what you have and the biggest thing that you can do is if you want to try and resurrect a server dojt try and bring back old people bring in new faces. Make do with the time left create as many events as you can. Make the time left with it as good as possible. Dont try to hide go out with a bang.

I disagree with this statement heavily. I believe something can be done, that's why I posted about it. You displayed your statement as fact, when it is opinion.

The fact is people got bored with Artyom for varying reasons and due to it having such a low population of players Artyom went into a spiral effect. The only way for us to have 2 servers or more is to have a second server consistently having huge populations. But if Artyom did that it would of just been another Sybil.

Please dont try to get uppity if you percieve this as a opinion go ahead just remember Artyoms population crashed not Sybils for many reasons. Try and publicise and make events and stuff said pn the forum before hand and pn sybil so people can enjoy it until it closes. I believe since the merge is confirmed. A server may well be closing but I cannot confirm it at this time it is up to SoS.

[FJKrake]

Whats the point of trying to resurrect a dead server?

You had the chance to fix stuff when people actually still played on the server. Its too late now.
In my opinion the 4 main points that killed the server:

1. Split of the Coder groups resulting in two codes that both suck. The Coders in general implemented useless features rather than working on improving game quality. I would play Baycode over your code any time of the day if I got to choose.
2. Half-assed admins. Many admins were basically doing their job half assed and did the bare minimum. The big problems nobody touched, e.g. proper ban requests.
3. Poor admin policy: How and in which direction the gameflow is being administrated is regulated poorly. Theres basically only 1-2 rules that are really enforced. There is no common policy on many matters, decisions are largely based on the admin handling them. Two different admins can come up with 2 completely different solutions / punishments.
4. Toleration of Trolls and Griefers: You you basically tolerating trolls and griefers on your server that make decent players quit the game more often than not. Hell, Id go as far as saying that some of your admin staff (*cough*Bluespace*cough*) are trolls themselves. Is it really worth having 1 autist on your server that has potentially griefed half a dozen decent people into switching the server? I dont think so. You didnt bring out the trash, now your server mostly consists of trash. Reputation is an important server asset, after all.


Ive seen many communities so far. Yours has potential but you gotta work to make a community decent. Its a constant process that requires effort. Thats half-assed shittlering brought you down. Good luck with rebuilding from scratch.

[Miauw]

Whats the point of trying to resurrect a dead server?

You had the chance to fix stuff when people actually still played on the server. Its too late now.
In my opinion the 4 main points that killed the server:

1. Split of the Coder groups resulting in two codes that both suck. The Coders in general implemented useless features rather than working on improving game quality. I would play Baycode over your code any time of the day if I got to choose.
2. Half-assed admins. Many admins were basically doing their job half assed and did the bare minimum. The big problems nobody touched, e.g. proper ban requests.
3. Poor admin policy: How and in which direction the gameflow is being administrated is regulated poorly. Theres basically only 1-2 rules that are really enforced. There is no common policy on many matters, decisions are largely based on the admin handling them. Two different admins can come up with 2 completely different solutions / punishments.
4. Toleration of Trolls and Griefers: You you basically tolerating trolls and griefers on your server that make decent players quit the game more often than not. Hell, Id go as far as saying that some of your admin staff (*cough*Bluespace*cough*) are trolls themselves. Is it really worth having 1 autist on your server that has potentially griefed half a dozen decent people into switching the server? I dont think so. You didnt bring out the trash, now your server mostly consists of trash. Reputation is an important server asset, after all.


Ive seen many communities so far. Yours has potential but you gotta work to make a community decent. Its a constant process that requires effort. Thats half-assed shittlering brought you down. Good luck with rebuilding from scratch.

>the coders in general implemented useless features rather than working on improving game quality
>tgstation
>implementing useless features over making the code better
the split literally happened because we disagreed over that.

try actually knowing something about this before you make pretentious posts.

[FJKrake]

>the coders in general implemented useless features rather than working on improving game quality
>tgstation
>implementing useless features over making the code better
the split literally happened because we disagreed over that.

try actually knowing something about this before you make pretentious posts.

Im not part of your community and quite frankly I dont want to be. Im trying to give you a perspective from my point of view, someone that is not deeply involved in your matters and only really cares about playing the game. Most outsider will have have this kind of perspective. The die hard regulars are a small portion after all.

Take it or leave it.

[peoplearestrange]

Im not part of your community and quite frankly I dont want to be. Im trying to give you a perspective from my point of view, someone that is not deeply involved in your matters and only really cares about playing the game. Most outsider will have have this kind of perspective. The die hard regulars are a small portion after all.

Take it or leave it.

But that's not strictly true. We're more so a community based server/game than any others due to the servers not being on the public lists and the strong force of regular returning users. Of course there's always new people and people of course don't exclusively play here, but still this game is very much community driven. Even the code itself is highly community driven.

Though I do have to say its painfully obvious we don't need 3 servers. Maybe closing one will allow the other to be slightly boosted, but still, an empty server will generally remain empty. If we have a few regular uses even idling on an empty one (to give the appearance of having users online) more will come. It's something I've seen before within other community run servers. Empty servers will simply die, you have to FORCE them to start by making it inviting.

[Lovecraft]

I remember once, on Sybil, some admins (can't remember who) were chanting in OCC for people to head to Artyom and make it popular again.
Like, 6 or 7 people did, and that was awesome. Though what was really interesting was the fact that not a single admin went to Artyom to start making it an interesting place to be, and the server went back to being dead.
If admins took turns hosting interesting shit on Artyom, maybe that could help spark some life into it. Or on Basil.
It's hard to force yourself to stay on a server where nothing happens when you know you could actually be using your playtime to have fun.

[Jalleo]

Whats the point of trying to resurrect a dead server?

You had the chance to fix stuff when people actually still played on the server. Its too late now.
In my opinion the 4 main points that killed the server:

1. Split of the Coder groups resulting in two codes that both suck. The Coders in general implemented useless features rather than working on improving game quality. I would play Baycode over your code any time of the day if I got to choose.
2. Half-assed admins. Many admins were basically doing their job half assed and did the bare minimum. The big problems nobody touched, e.g. proper ban requests.
3. Poor admin policy: How and in which direction the gameflow is being administrated is regulated poorly. Theres basically only 1-2 rules that are really enforced. There is no common policy on many matters, decisions are largely based on the admin handling them. Two different admins can come up with 2 completely different solutions / punishments.
4. Toleration of Trolls and Griefers: You you basically tolerating trolls and griefers on your server that make decent players quit the game more often than not. Hell, Id go as far as saying that some of your admin staff (*cough*Bluespace*cough*) are trolls themselves. Is it really worth having 1 autist on your server that has potentially griefed half a dozen decent people into switching the server? I dont think so. You didnt bring out the trash, now your server mostly consists of trash. Reputation is an important server asset, after all.

Ive seen many communities so far. Yours has potential but you gotta work to make a community decent. Its a constant process that requires effort. Thats half-assed shittlering brought you down. Good luck with rebuilding from scratch.

1. This happened due to people feeling that we should have more features and less focus on streamlining and making the code better. Now it has been realised how bad that would be the codebases are merging again and high standards of code are staying and most of the features that NT made should be ported over. A lot of the other servers are a lot more laggier than us. We are the most efficent code around due to how much we focus on it Atmos generates almost no lag now...
2. That needs better admin management issues will always occur we dont have a proper uniform structure like other communites.
3. Our policies were a hell of a lot worse trust me. We are more stringent now than we have been,
4. That is a community matter and management of people in the community we cant stop them being here but we do manage it.

This community has been around for four years if you look at the original forums you will see at the old threads it was technically a lot worse.

[Scott]

People wanted to split because tgstation = nerfs and removals are features + the community doesn't matter.

Also something about erro being angry, I was not paying much attention to it.

[NikNakFlak]

I dont think I could disagree with krake more. I get the feeling he says those things out of spite and an attempt to bring anger. Most his statements are simply not true.

[Mandurrrh]

I dont think I could disagree with krake more. I get the feeling he days those things out of spite and an attempt to bring anger. Most his statements are simply not true.

I think krake is a butthurt autist as much as the next person but you have a very similiar personality to him. And get caught up in your own spite. What parts aren't you agreeing with?

Again. We have already been suggesting what needed to be done long before the server died. Should have listened. And the only thing thats going to be able to create a successful second server is community. You have to work on rebuilding the community and stop worrying about Artyom. Its dead.



Also Henchie if you go back in the older threads one of my main suggestions for saving artyom: Make an admin presence required on Artyom. If there are four admins on sybil ONE of them can open up artyom too. We didn't have the pop for events and the game got boring. Had admins stepped up and made an effort to be on artyom and work together to create a consistent presence for admin events, creating antag slots, anwsering ahelps, granting prayer requests, etc the population may have held and improved and we wouldn't be here now. But it didn't happen. Maybe three admins total tried but their presence dwindled and they couldn't be there 24/7. It should have been an administrative collaboration. How many admins does this server have? I think its time to do a clean up if we couldn't even find one admin to be on each server at all times. And obviously we don't have the administrative team needed to run multiple servers. If we only have admins present on one of three servers and thats all they can manage then its time to nuke the other two. I just don't think /tg/ can handle multiple servers right now.... and thats okay. Knock it down to two see if administration can get it together to handle two instead of three if there still isn't a consistency in administration on both servers take it down to one or build an administration team that can put the time and presence into running multiple servers at once.

Old Basil 2014?

[FJKrake]

I dont think I could disagree with krake more. I get the feeling he says those things out of spite and an attempt to bring anger. Most his statements are simply not true.

Dude I enjoyed playing on Basil and Im trying to give some feedback here. If you disagree, fine. Quite frankly Im not the kind of person that comes to a forum and posts simply to spite people. I got better things to do. This is my opinon on the matter. Feel free to disagree all day.

[NikNakFlak]

I really dont like where this thread is going. Its becoming less about what to do now, and more about why it failed, and why its administration at fault, etc. whining.

[ColonicAcid]

Hey it's like godwin's law.
But instead of it devolving into calling eachother hitler it's calling eachother autistic.

But don't you worry your pants I'm sure the hitlers will arrive soon enough.

[Lovecraft]

I thought what we were doing now was something like
1. Kill Artyom
2. Transfer new cosmetics to Basil
3. Prop Basil back up by assigning admins to actually go there and make it a desirable server again
4. ???
5. Profit

[Remie Richards]

I thought what we were doing now was something like
1. Kill Artyom
2. Transfer new cosmetics to Basil
3. Prop Basil back up by assigning admins to actually go there and make it a desirable server again
4. ???
5. Profit

Yet again, this is basically what's happening already.

[Lovecraft]

Yeah I thought that was it.
So what are we talking about? Other solutions? How we got here? What to do after we get there?

[Miauw]

Yeah I thought that was it.
So what are we talking about? Other solutions? How we got here? What to do after we get there?

it is a mystery

[Scott]

We bury it.

[ColonicAcid]

Yeah I thought that was it.
So what are we talking about? Other solutions? How we got here? What to do after we get there?

Crashing this plane... with no survivors.

[bandit]

I've said this at least 15 times, including when Sibyl was the server that was "dead." It's the same reason why no one wants to sign on as the only security officer, basically:

- There is no incentive for anyone to join Artyom -- or Basil -- because rounds where you are the only player are boring. Even if you roll antag there is only so much of turning the station into your personal autism death trap that you can take before you get bored, and fuck off, and then someone else has to be the only player.
- The only way there will be an incentive for people to join Artyom or Basil is if there is a critical mass of players at once. This will never happen unless something drastic happens to make people switch servers en masse -- which they do when servers crash, for instance -- or if enough people join Artyom, one by one.
- There is no incentive for anyone to join Artyom or Basil because rounds where you are the only player are boring.
- Cycle repeats.