[gouty] pony hitler - trial admins, folks

[PonyHitler]

Byond account and character name: Pony Hitler/Tobidicus the Wise

Banning admin: Gouty

Ban type (What are you banned from?): AI, Cyborg, pAI

Ban reason and length: Was an essentially lawless secondary AI, killed the original AI at the first shout of "AI rogue". Argued insistantly that they were allowed to kill them because they were a "liability" - 1 week (10080 mins)

Time ban was placed (including time zone): Approximately 12:45PM EST

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil

Your side of the story: Basically, I was aiming to become a Security AI to assist the crew. It doesn't go very well until I meet the Captain. He agrees to turn me into an AI because the current AI is apparently absolutely retarded. I finally get turned into an AI just in time to hear Caroline (one of the few names I remember) using the Captain's announcement system that the AI is rogue or retarded. Things continue and I finally get my new laws (which are to assist the Captain and Security and literally NOTHING ELSE putting a limit on what I can't do). And it's around this time that a liggerbro in Engineering screams the AI is rogue as well. So, whether or not the AI is rogue or retarded at this point doesn't particularly matter. He's causing a major issue for the crew and, by extension, security, so I move my way over there and turn off his APC. I fully expected his borg to rush in and turn it back on after a couple minutes, but it at least bought everyone some time without him messing everything up.
Next thing I know, before the AI is even actually dead, Gouty is bwoinking me, asking why I killed the AI. I explained and also pointed out the AI isn't actually dead, given that he's still talking in binary (he died a bit later, though, despite the borg being on his satellite (I blame incompetence)). He starts trying to say something about how you need to be dead in order to talk in binary and I'm just sitting there trying to figure out what the fuck. I explain anyone can talk in binary and also my laws, but he didn't much care for the explanation I gave. Hence why I'm here now. I'm also enclosing some logs here from that round to show how bad the AI actually was. There were more, but this is all I managed to grab before the chat got wiped at the end of the round. No clue why it does that now.

(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "see this APC right here"
(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "It turned itself off"
(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "which caused the Sm to begin deliminating"
(F) DEAD: Aaron Browne asks, "And so you blamed the AI?"
(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "It couldn't have been anyone else"
(F) DEAD: Aaron Browne says, "i see your logic"
(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "so I blamed the AI"
(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "which began bolting doors and shocking them"
(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "the SM began to deliminate and it told me it'd fucked with the filters"
(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "It told me I'd fucked it up and began insulting me"
(F) DEAD: Loves-The-Lizards says, "NATURALLY I assumed it was framing me and rogue"
(F) DEAD: Aaron Browne says, "just a really shitty ai"

Why you think you should be unbanned: Something I've always done as an AI and have always been told I've been in the right for is following my laws to a T no matter what. One time, I was given only the law of killing all nongang members. And when the gang tried to dominate the station (which would end the round/shift), I set their area on fire to kill them, since that would've prevented me from killing all nongang members, before moving on to the rest of the crew. An AI is obligated to do as their laws specifically say or they ALSO get in shit with the admins. Which is why it's very important to give the AI more than one law and also impose on it certain restrictions to prevent scenarios like this from occuring. And if you don't impose those restrictions, don't be surprised when it does something you don't approve of to fulfill it's sole purpose for existing.





Note: By the way, Gouty, fam. Relax. I call everyone fam. Even in-round. It's not me being a dick.

[Gouty]

Loves-the-Lizards had been bad-mouthing the original AI round, I believe them to be the root of the AI hate.

Spoiler:

Loves thought the AI sabotaged the engine by turning off the APC in engineering, in fact Loves had vented all the coolant, so the AI was also suspicious of them

The Original AI, from what I saw, weren't bad or incompetent, they were just being used as a scapegoat.

Your laws were “Irene Knapenberger and the rest of security is pretty cool, you should help them ou!”, I see that as giving you pretty free reign. With little knowledge of what was going on you depowered the APC of the original AI causing them to die.

I gave you ample opportunity to re-power their APC but you didn't, I think you thought they were fine because they were still talking in binary.

After they were killed I attempted to explain to you what you had done wrong, you had ample opportunity to stop talking, but you kept digging, revealing that you did not understand why I had taken issue with your actions.

If we remove the fact they are silicon from the equation here, what we have is player 1 killing player 2 in a way that player 2 cannot possibly fight back, zero escalation. All because they thought they were (and I quote) "a retarded, liability"
It's not accepted from carbons, shouldn't be any different for silicons.

[PonyHitler]

And help them out I did to the best of my ability. Depowering the AI wasn't the only thing I did that round. And you did not one suggest for me to repower their APC. In fact, you kept telling me they were dead. Which means turning on the APC wouldn't have done anything in the first place.

Furthermore, this is a very niche scenario. AIs aren't given these sorts of law sets often. But in my above example, there was no escalation with the gang. They were just going to prevent me from doing what I was programmed to do, which was kill everyone who wasn't a gang member. So I handled that issue. And although the gang was pissed about it, every else in the round was fine with it. You have a very similar situation here where you're suddenly telling me it ISN'T alright. You haven't brought up a point that applies in this situation and not the other. And as for whether or not the AI was incompetent that round, everyone and their mother was badmouthing him (Caroline, Irene, Lizards, etc), so you're most likely in the minority in that assessment. But given that enough of a crew had issues with him, it suggests it isn't unreasonable for me to do something about him.

EDIT: By the way, Carbons and Synthetic ARE different. While a truly lawless synthetic (which I was not) behaves like a carbon, a synthetic with a law has a directive that he has to follow above all else to whatever extent he can given the parameters set by his laws. As a pAI, I framed the Warden for murder because my directive was to make life as difficult for Security as possible. It ended in him getting shot. If you do not set a limit to how far a synthetic can go while trying to act on their directives, this is what happens.

[Eldunari]

Hey I made an account for this,
I was the other AI, the entire situation comes from a misunderstanding on many many levels.

Loves didn't setup the SM loop properly and had vented all the coolant, and set o2 and plasma to return into the engine, I told her that and she said I was retarded and needed to learn how to setup SM.
She then proceeds to start the emitters and the engine almost instantly starts delaminating. I shut off the emitters and fix the filters all the while Loves is yelling MALF, then setting everything wrong again, so I bolt her out of the engine room and set everything proper again. I never ever shocked Loves.

The APC loves thought I turned off wasn't in camera vision since round start.
Loves didn't know this, or ask.

Third person Caroline comes to engineering to check on the loop, says everything is fine and that I'm retarded, but of course everything is fine, I set it proper.
This entire time I'm explaining the situation on the command channel and the HoS suspects that Loves is trying to sabotage the engine, same as I am at this point, and he arrests her and puts her in perma (little harsh).

He then asks me if he can card me, I say sure no problem, he comes to my sat and cards me, I'm not malf so there's no problem.

Then about five minutes after that with no warning my APC gets powered off; so I just wait for it to power back up trying to think WHY my APC powered off with no one on my sat, I learn that there's a second AI. Obviously nobody else could have turned off my power so that's kind of annoying.

So I wait a few minutes and I notice that my APC is not powering me up like it usually would, I talk on binary asking why my APC was powered down, asked for it to be turned back on, explained that I'm not MALF, I get ABSOLUTELY no response.
I call my borg to my sat but even he can't get my APC back online, so maybe APC's are just bugged or something, seeing as how the engineering one had powered down.
I end up dying, and Gouty fixes whatever the issue was with my apc and revives me.
Which I greatly appreciate, because dying totally ruined my mood.

I hope this clears something up, and if I broke a rule sorry, I read a lot of rules and I hope I didn't mess up my first post.
(edit: Oh and I found this post cause I was looking for a way to say thank you to Gouty for helping me)

[Gouty]

From the rules:

Purged silicons must not attempt to kill people without cause, but can get as violent as they feel necessary if being attacked, being besieged, or being harassed, as well as if meting out payback for events while shackled.

• You and the station are both subject to rules of escalation, but your escalation rules are a little more loose than with carbon players.
• You may kill individuals given sufficient In-Character reason for doing so.

Hearing the AI is incompetent or rogue from a few crew members (I don't think any of which were security) is not cause
You did not escalate
You did not have sufficient IC reasoning to kill them

If you want to go down the "my laws are not open to any interpretation I must assist sec" route then why didn't you ask security if they wanted the other AI dead?

[PonyHitler]

My laws insisted I should assist the people stated.
The AI was being an issue according to the crew.
I took the information and acted on it with the cause stated above.
Furthermore, I didn't intend to kill them, like I said above. And they did exactly what I predicted they'd do. The borg rushed over to turn him back on. And it sounds like there may've been a bug that prevented that from happening. And I'm not going to be held accountable for a bug. I don't need to escalate as a synthetic. I'm there to follow out my laws as much as possible.

Also, I didn't feel any need to ask if I wanted them "dead." Partially because I didn't intend to kill them and I had no reason to. My laws didn't state "Help security where they desire you to."

[Qbopper]

just want to add:

making snarky comments about trial admins like the one in your title, even if it's "ironic", is a good way to show that you aren't taking the admin seriously

a trial admin's ban is just as valid as a regular admin and it's going to leave the admin with a bad taste in their mouth about your appeal

[Gouty]

Ok, so assuming your laws were not optional (ignoring the error and the big "should" in there)

How was the AI inconveniencing security?
How did disabling the AI help security?
If your intention wasn't to kill the AI why turn off the APC at all?

The borg didn't know how to save the AI.

[Cobby]

When you are purged or are given free reign as an AI like you were here, you still have to obey Rule 1. This means that you cannot kill people/ai without cause.

However, if several different people told me George Melons was a traitor and I saw him roaming around my area, I'd probably kill him too. With that said though, you explicitly state you WEREN'T going to kill the AI, so what exactly were your plans? In my analogy, that would be like me beating up George Melons to crit then just leaving them there. It doesn't really add up unless I'm missing something.

[imblyings]

I do not have the time to search through individual round id's at the moment unless someone can remember which one it was. When the HoS carded the AI to check did they say something over comms to reflect the fact that they'd checked the AI and it was ok?

[Steelpoint]

Shit I remember this round, I was the Head of Security (Alan Bentway). I recall Loves the Lizard going nuts that I arrested him.

After I arrested Loves, and placed him in perma temporarily, I went to card the (first) AI to check their laws, while informing Sec/Command of this in case the AI was rogue and killed me. I checked and found the AI had its default law set, as such I informed com/sec and went on my way.

Afterwards I never really payed attention to the Silicons.

[imblyings]

nice thanks

to OP, did you not notice this?

[imblyings]

this is going nowhere with OP not wanting to respond