Additional Races

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:10 am #99504

So I've been wanting to see additional races, but I feel that any attempt may be met with extreme hostility, even if they are not playable.

So I just want to check. Would you be opposed to more races? What if they were playable like lizards?

Spoiler:

They wouldn't have any special non-cosmetic abilities. If anything, they should only have drawbacks. Things like shorter vision range, vulnerability to tempurature changes, less health, addiction to something, etc

At the very least it gives admins more options in events.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:21 am #99514

Give us catbeasts, make them insta-valid like /vg/ does.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:44 am #99525

We already have a lot of races (https://tgstation13.org/wiki//index.php ... e_to_races [needs to be updated, missing plasmamen and ayyliens]), it'd be better to flesh them out rather than leaving them to rot by the wayside of yet more races. Flypeople for example can be all the insectiod you need, and hey if someone wants to give them a better sprite and call them something else that's fine too.

More roundstart races is harder to justify. They'd need to basically be almost exactly what lizards are but still somehow different enough to warrant their existence. Keep in mind that the kind of players who might want to play a race like that are probably the same kinds of players who play lizards, so if there's a lot of choices here all parties might be diluted.

I'd also like to make races more distinct in terms of how they play, for example once/if dismemberment ever gets in I think it'd make sense for slime people to able to regrow lost limbs, maybe even survive without a head.

Squids are fine as long as they can also be kids.

Post by **PKPenguin321** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:46 am #99526

just don't, lizards are edgy and dayy lmaoramatic enough as it is

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:54 am #99527

@incoming

The thing is I want to keep them simple intentionally. Giving them only minor drawbacks without any benefit keeps the station predominately human, while still giving players who don't care about min maxing an alternate experience.

And flypeople are ugly and should be kept as the freaks they are.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:57 am #99528

Ikarrus wrote:@incoming

The thing is I want to keep them simple intentionally. Giving them only minor drawbacks without any benefit keeps the station predominately human, while still giving players who don't care about min maxing an alternate experience.

And flypeople are ugly and should be kept as the freaks they are.

Well yeah when I was talking about more distinct races I didn't really mean roundstart, because as you said they can't be better than humans. The "later into the round" races can though.

Also dammit doesn't this game have enough bugs

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:15 am #99534

I'm not opposed to new races, even with benefits Just don't use it to play hello kitty adventure (Excessive cutesyness) or to enact your weeaboo hentai fantasy (Overtly animoo crap) Theme it on scifi, Not porn, not furry porn, and not tentacle monster porn.

Some examples
Squids
Good ideas
Can employ several hands for their work but can't wear belts or jumpsuits armor or backpacks.
due to suckers on tentacles harder to push and shove, like fat people used to be.
Squidward blurbles "I like this station."
Squidward Excitedly Blurbles "HELP! THE AI IS KILLING ME!!!!"

Bad ideas
School girl or nurse outfits awaken the squid lust.
All the tentacles are penises.

Insectiods good ideas
Hiveminded in culture, replaces in say I with we, and I'm or I am with we are.
gain no benefits from nutriment and prefer sugar for that purpose, thus the drink machines are their go-to, like the snacks for humans.
Can live off of 10 pressure oxygen rather than 16 from internals.
Pest spray causes toxin damage.

Praying Man Tis clicks "Do you have anymore cake? we are hungry..."
Praying Man Tis Chitters "WE ARE POISONED!!!!"

Bad ideas
Views the captain and or head of their department and or AI as the Queen of the station, and their greatest hope is to mate with them and then have their head bitten off.

Beasts
Good ideas
Humanoid cats, Khajits if you will, Slashes instead of punches, does not affect damage or statistics Encouraged to talk like a bravosi from game of thrones
Mr kitty meows "This beer tastes funny
Mr kitty Yowls "LYNCH THE CHEMIST!!!!"

Humanoid dogs, Does not affect actual stats, Encouraged to bring back things people throw.
Rex barks "Let's go play in the hologram room."
Rex Yarps "AI FLOODING PLASMA IN THE HOLOGRAM ROOM!

Bad ideas
Barbed cat penises. Especially with sprites.
Normal humans with cat ears and/or tails

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:29 am #99537

New races? Cool, but don't make them a roundstart choice.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:02 am #99547

Firmly opposed.

Incomptinence · Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:42 am

I'm for it more customization is good. If you make something dumb with a lot of options at your disposal it is on you really.

Post by **PKPenguin321** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:19 am #99562

Scones wrote:Firmly opposed.

this, no more drama please
also let's not turn into paradise station

Post by **oranges** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:24 am #99566

I think we're at the stage where new races have to be strongly justified as adding some gameplay benefit for the overall game.

Post by **PKPenguin321** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:37 am #99571

oranges wrote:I think we're at the stage where new races have to be strongly justified as adding some gameplay benefit for the overall game.

translated from orangespeak to english: "No, new races do not add anything worthwhile to the game and do more bad than good."

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:56 am #99636

y'all have a pathological fear of snowflakes, how do you even go outside in a blizzard

TrustyGun · Post by **TrustyGun** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:27 am #99639

Why not Jellypeople? They are only admin spawnable I believe, and if you made them more different than Slimepeople, they could be a good roundstart race.

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:43 pm #99691

Catbeast must be 100% valid at all times if they're ever added. Make it a punishment race for someone to play as if they do bad.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:07 pm #99704

We already have quite a few races that it might make more sense to develop than to just make new ones.

In addition, I'd really rather new races were in some way fitting the science fiction theme. "Person, but also a cat" doesn't really fit that and to me lacks imagination, especially if it purely plays like a person (two arms, two legs, all that sort of thing). Equally, "human, but more powerful" doesn't work as a roundstart race for obvious reasons: nobody wants the entire station to be made up of mutants.

There are ways of balancing this, but if you wanted to add more races I think you'd be best off giving them *really strong* disadvantages along with any possible advantages they might have. It would also help if you made them impossible to play as by even more jobs than lizard: so where lizards can't play as command staff, a new roundstart race might only be able to play as a member of the service staff or an assistant. You could even make a race eligible for only one job, at all (e.g. Vorcha can only work as station engineers).

On the whole, if you can think of interesting races with true pros and cons (lizards barely manage this, and introducing more lizard-likes therefore isn't a good idea) with a clear science fiction theme then I think it wouldn't be a bad idea. Could even be very fun. All the better if you can tie it into existing lore, too. Fleshed out slimepeople? What about podpersons? Are any of those existing already? Or how about different types of golem?

Nienhaus · Post by **Nienhaus** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:22 pm #99710

Sharkpeople.

WJohnston · Post by **WJohnston** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:00 pm #99752

Yeah honestly we should probably at least *try* in the slightest amount to add some lore (and possible advantages/disadvantages) to our existing races before adding more.

I dunno, maybe make lots of chems behave differently on lizard people. You can go the lazy route instead and just make it so certain chems poison them or heal them when they normally wouldn't to humans.

Sugar intolerant lizards, for example.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:26 pm

I'm fine with extra races as long as they aren't the usual "Scaly, Dogman, Catman" nonsense.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:28 pm #99765

I think my main issue is thus far, non-human races (And by this, I mean the only one we have playable) have just promoted a cliqueish subculture of greytiding nonhumans.

I don't think more races is a good idea.

Skorvold · Post by **Skorvold** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:57 pm #99820

YOU'RE A KID YOU'RE A SQUID YOU'RE A KID

Cuboos · Post by **Cuboos** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:34 pm #99826

i don't know if it's just me... but it really looks like the reasoning against aliens borders on psychological disorders rather than reasonable argument. "We don't wanna enable special snow flakes". Literally so fucking what? What ISN'T Special snowflaky about humans? Hell they are literally the speciallist snowflakiest race of them all, being the ones with MORE appearance options and the only ones that can be heads. The lizard do not act any more shittier than normal crew, but when ever one does act like a normal shitler, the reaction is a bit a stronger with way more complaints. How is this not being a special snowflake. Lots of pots calling the kettles black in my opinion. I think you people really get over it.

As far as races go though, i'm all for adding round start races that have special circumstances to them. I really like Falamazeer's ideas on races, draw backs and benefits. Humans still being the most well rounded because the station was designed to be operated by humans. Although, while not against, i'm not really for adding "furry" races either. Trust me when i say, "Dog fetching things thrown" IS a furry fetish, and i am not kidding... In my experience furry races needs some care, i've seen other RPs allow furry races without any monitoring, and it usually goes out of control and results in a lot of drama. With regulation though (such as only allowing a few, only allowing non-drama prone people to play that race, only allowing those who can either follow their established personalities or are known to make well rounded characters, which is kind of hard to regulate on SS13) it's been find and usually resulted in interesting characters. I'm defiantly 100% for adding more sci-fi oriented races though, Plasma men are fun (though easily griefed) The mentioned squids and insects sound like an awesome idea. I think having the insects look up to their heads as a queen is a good idea actually, just minus the mating and head biting off though.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:38 pm #99827

Honestly so long as they can NEVER be Command or Security I'd be somewhat more receptive to sci-fi races

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:10 pm #99831

A lot of people are against "more races" because they're insecure and spite any sort of minority, be they fictional or genuine. There is nothing redeeming about this attitude, and this thread demonstrates it quite clearly with people who say "no" but can't present an argument as to why.

I have my own reasons for not wanting more races. I feel that the game better maintains it's atmosphere of paranoia by encouraging the distrust towards "other species", be they silicons, changelings, lizardmen, etc. Would we consider Nanotrasen to be a "human-only" mega-corp, or might they be the mega-corp that exploits all races to their advantage? I guess you can argue whichever you prefer.

Let us not add new species out of demand to snowflake as fictional species X, but out of the merits of what they might offer to gameplay and how well they fit with the theme of the game. By that measure, plasma men are fantastic. I would like to see more races like the plasma men.

Lumbermancer · Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:42 pm

PKPenguin321 wrote:just don't, lizards are edgy and dayy lmaoramatic enough as it is

I concur. Let's try it next year.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:46 pm #99839

They're protected by the rules, Invisty, so a lot of paranoia/interaction potential is lost

Lumbermancer · Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:00 pm

invisty wrote:A lot of people are against "more races" because they're insecure and spite any sort of minority, be they fictional or genuine.

Yeah, that must be it. Space Racism. Scaly lives matter.

Skorvold · Post by **Skorvold** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:31 pm #99852

Lizard players are already pretty shit as is, but not in a blatantly "shitter" way. They form lizard cliques and just talk amongst each other, or just abuse the lizard names and run around spouting memes like a broken record.

Why don't we flesh out our current shitty, boring race before we add in new ones that will more or less just follow the lizard recipe. Right now, lizards are just obnoxious as fuck, that's why people don't fucking like them. They're a shitty race with no defined culture, abilities, or technology. All they do i SSSSsssssssssSSSS.

Mutant races don't work with TG very well.

Post by **PKPenguin321** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:11 am #99884

i think part of the reason i don't like this is because it calls so much attention to itself and the game inevitably revolves around the mutantraces
look at lizards for example, there is a portion of our community that almost exclusively discusses them and any discussion inevitably involves lizards at some point regardless of topic (and you can't say lizards aren't snowflakey)
this kind of thing doesn't happen with vanilla humans which is why i'm okay with them
if this is added we'll be less "Space Station 13" and more "Cat humans and lizards bein' dramatic and silly XD" because it takes focus away from the actual game

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:51 am #99919

As an admin and sec player I feel I can safely say they behave much worse on average

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:07 am

Bird race when, I want it badly.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:13 am #99974

You mean vox? Space jewgypsies that they are, they'd kinda fit right in.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

I like the Vox because of their "breathing non-oxygen gases" thing, meaning they have to constantly rely on departments to keep them alive, traitors can vent the nitrogen into space, all that cool stuff you don't get with Joins-The-Meme the random-loadout lizardman with his fifteen customisation options who acts exactly like every other greytider at all times.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:17 pm #100055

Shush, Dorsi, everyone knows Vox are filthy sublizards, you can't compare the two.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:09 pm #100377

I'd prefer any new races to be only unlockable with Genetics for now. So if you want to be a Landsquid, Praying mantis, sapient xeno or whatever you need to get Genetics' help.
It would give them something a bit more to do other than create Superman

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:12 pm #100378

Yeah, you know what, for a department called genetics there is a disturbing lack of visibly mutant freaks being made from it.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:45 pm #100385

Ikarrus wrote:Yeah, you know what, for a department called genetics there is a disturbing lack of visibly mutant freaks being made from it.

I've tried to unify mutantrace/mutantcolor with genetics before, but the code scares me. It's not very readable.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:00 am #100646

I would like for there to be roundstart choices, (and yes, obviously cat-people) and Genetics should be able to modify anyone's DNA to match any roundstart choice. A human should be able to become a lizard, along with his body parts. This could easily be added to the lower 800s of the race gene found in the SE, and the UI can be used to clone or change any body aspects, like tail type for lizards, and how currently hair is changed in humans.

Post by **Jacquerel** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:09 am #100686

This community is just too enamoured by any opportunity to "pretend" to be racists for this to ever be a good idea.

TheNightingale · Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:31 am

Jacquerel wrote:This community is just too enamoured by any opportunity to "pretend" to be racists for this to ever be a good idea.

It's not too hard to work out the etymology of the word "ligger"*, and given the frequency with which it's used...

*(Hint: racial slur against dark-skinned people)

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Yeah, but saying "Everyone who dislikes lizards mechanically and for the people who play them is a real life evil racist" is moronic and not helpful.

Also you generally only hear "ligger" on the forum/singuloio these days

ThanatosRa · Post by **ThanatosRa** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:53 pm #100859

You know it's been awhile since I purposely became a fly person.

Honestly, I say if anything just add the cat people and be done with it if anything at all. We got enough shit as it is.'

Anyone else remember when podpeople had potatos for heads?

WJohnston · Post by **WJohnston** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:13 pm #100864

CDDA mutations sometime this year...?

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:21 pm #100870

CDDA? You mean, Cata-style? Fuck yes. I'd give you all of my lizard serum.

Man_Shroom · Post by **Man_Shroom** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:45 am #100908

I'm open to about 1-2 new races as long as the new race ISN'T

Repeat

IS NOT

____ Animal + A human = New race

Post by **oranges** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:17 am #100915

I'm down for goo girls

Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:15 am

we have those

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:45 pm #101035

Yeah the new races (if any) should look distinctly alien instead of furries. An insectoid race (maybe not fly people because they're meant to be mutants) would be a good idea though I'd prefer an overhaul of the lore if we're really going this direction.

Cuboos · Post by **Cuboos** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:18 pm #101438

Man_Shroom wrote:I'm open to about 1-2 new races as long as the new race ISN'T

Repeat

IS NOT

____ Animal + A human = New race

BUT WITH TAILS YOU CAN BE A SAYAN NOW.