[Poll] xray gun nerf
- phil235
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:39 am
- Byond Username: Phil235
[Poll] xray gun nerf
So xray gun is OP and needs to be nerfed. I made a PR (https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/9978) to basically reduce the range of the xray beam depending on what obstacles it passes through. Currently, it allows you to pass through only up to 5 blob tiles (or mobs) or 2 walls/airlocks. It is also unable to penetrate reinforced walls. Since the values are easily tweakable I'm asking you what you'd prefer:
- How many reinforced walls should the beam be able to go through before dissipating?
- How many normal walls should the beam be able to go through before dissipating?
- How many blob tiles (or mob) should the beam be able to go through before dissipating?
See https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/6928 and https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/9923 to see why it needs to be nerfed.
If you choose "none of the above", please make a post explaining your position.
- How many reinforced walls should the beam be able to go through before dissipating?
- How many normal walls should the beam be able to go through before dissipating?
- How many blob tiles (or mob) should the beam be able to go through before dissipating?
See https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/6928 and https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/9923 to see why it needs to be nerfed.
If you choose "none of the above", please make a post explaining your position.
Last edited by phil235 on Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm a tgstation coding maintainer janitor
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
- Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
I don't think the xraygun should be nerfed.
It's a high research requirement for a reason and the only real times it gets out of hand is when people have thermals or xray too.
It's a high research requirement for a reason and the only real times it gets out of hand is when people have thermals or xray too.
- phil235
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:39 am
- Byond Username: Phil235
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
The nerf is needed because the xray gun is currently a hard counter against malf AI and blob. If the crew ever get their hands on xray guns, you're doomed no matter what.
I'm a tgstation coding maintainer janitor
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
- Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Malf AIs have abilities with the sole purpose of shutting down machines that could be problematic to them.
Blobs I can see your argument but I think that this sort of stuff is needed so that blob rounds actually end instead of becoming a stalemate.
Blobs I can see your argument but I think that this sort of stuff is needed so that blob rounds actually end instead of becoming a stalemate.
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Woah maybe it's a hard counter to blob and malf because it's designed to be a hard counter against blob and malf
It stops the inevitable blob stalemates that occur in the last couple hundred tiles, and honestly any malf that doesn't shut down science deserves to die. It's as basic as removing the Borg Boom console. Except it doesn't even require points there is a built in "YOU'VE JUST BEEN MALFED" research deletion button.
It stops the inevitable blob stalemates that occur in the last couple hundred tiles, and honestly any malf that doesn't shut down science deserves to die. It's as basic as removing the Borg Boom console. Except it doesn't even require points there is a built in "YOU'VE JUST BEEN MALFED" research deletion button.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
None of the above, just increase the mineral cost or change it to work off diamonds instead of/in addition to uranium. X-ray guns should be fucking expensive and thus rare, but attainable if mining works hard enough.
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Yes make them require diamond. That's all that's needed.
Let's not cut the top 10% of powerful things in the game every month.
Let's not cut the top 10% of powerful things in the game every month.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Being able to sit in space with a bag of xray guns and shit on the station is neither fun nor difficult to do.
Science is already OP enough as it is, with constant buffs to R&D.
Science is already OP enough as it is, with constant buffs to R&D.
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- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:01 pm
- Byond Username: IyaerP
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Xray gun does NOT need a nerf. It exists almost solely to fuck up blob, and as such, needs to be able to do its job.
Blob is OP to the point that nothing short of popping in the bar or something similarly retarded gets blob killed. It is almost impossible to win as crew without Xrays.
The way to look at this is not: "Once crew gets xray guns, they can win vs blob, oh noes!" Because right now that is about the ONLY way to win vs blob. I have seen a blob out-produce a trio of emitters aimed from space at its core and go on to win, and with the number of blob buffs over the past year or so, it is at the point that normal crew can't even begin to MATTER vs the blob. All they can hope to do is not become a zombie for the blob army and hope that science has its shit togeather to scrape out the win, because nothing that they do is going to meaningfully contribute.
Nerfing xray lasers is not the solution here. The solution is to scale down blob so that science/mining isn't the only crew that matters vs blob. Because right now? That's where it is at.
It used to be that normal crew could at least contain the blob with the welder brigade, and sec with lasers could make a decent assualt with hopes of a kill. With blob zombies, chem blob spores, blobbernauts (gone AFAIK, thank god), and insane resource generation, any blob player who isn't pants on head retarded is pretty much guaranteed to win.
Blob is OP to the point that nothing short of popping in the bar or something similarly retarded gets blob killed. It is almost impossible to win as crew without Xrays.
The way to look at this is not: "Once crew gets xray guns, they can win vs blob, oh noes!" Because right now that is about the ONLY way to win vs blob. I have seen a blob out-produce a trio of emitters aimed from space at its core and go on to win, and with the number of blob buffs over the past year or so, it is at the point that normal crew can't even begin to MATTER vs the blob. All they can hope to do is not become a zombie for the blob army and hope that science has its shit togeather to scrape out the win, because nothing that they do is going to meaningfully contribute.
Nerfing xray lasers is not the solution here. The solution is to scale down blob so that science/mining isn't the only crew that matters vs blob. Because right now? That's where it is at.
It used to be that normal crew could at least contain the blob with the welder brigade, and sec with lasers could make a decent assualt with hopes of a kill. With blob zombies, chem blob spores, blobbernauts (gone AFAIK, thank god), and insane resource generation, any blob player who isn't pants on head retarded is pretty much guaranteed to win.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Shamelessly advertising my xray alternative again
http://www.singulo.io/tg/src/1433809799414.webm
It's probably not as powerful but at least it's different (and I hope entertaining in its own way) instead of a straight nerf
http://www.singulo.io/tg/src/1433809799414.webm
It's probably not as powerful but at least it's different (and I hope entertaining in its own way) instead of a straight nerf
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
If you're specifically talking about blobs, then I'll say this.
If you can make xray lasers, you can by extension make clusterbang launchers.
Clusterbangs assblast blobs. They're so powerful against blobs it's hilarious. 2-3 clusterbangs will kill EVERY blob in the area, including blob walls and even the core itself.
The mech with a clusterbang can wipe out a blob, as long as the blob doesn't have shitloads of points to rush the mech (not easy when clusterbangs are getting spammed).
If you can make xray lasers, you can by extension make clusterbang launchers.
Clusterbangs assblast blobs. They're so powerful against blobs it's hilarious. 2-3 clusterbangs will kill EVERY blob in the area, including blob walls and even the core itself.
The mech with a clusterbang can wipe out a blob, as long as the blob doesn't have shitloads of points to rush the mech (not easy when clusterbangs are getting spammed).
- Arete
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:55 am
- Byond Username: Arete
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Blobs win about 2/3 of the time when the round lasts 30 minutes or less. Lategame research is clearly a major factor, but it's not even close to necessary.iyaerP wrote:Blob is OP to the point that nothing short of popping in the bar or something similarly retarded gets blob killed. It is almost impossible to win as crew without Xrays.
A buff to lategame blobs (which this amounts to) should probably be accompanied by either a nerf to earlygame blobs or maybe some change to make it more likely that blob rounds will last to the lategame in the first place.
- kevinz000
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:41 am
- Byond Username: Kevinz000
- Github Username: kevinz000
- Location: Dorm Room 3
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Only took one round of Steve mic blasting the shuttle for 3 minutes with em for me to want it needed
I'm not saying I'm not guilty of using xray implant and cray gun to hunt xenos or murderboning traitors but that's not the point
I'm not saying I'm not guilty of using xray implant and cray gun to hunt xenos or murderboning traitors but that's not the point
Local catgirl scratching post - Shezza


Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR


Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
NSFW:
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
If you got the materials and firing pins and space suits and all that prep then yes you get to shit on the station.lumipharon wrote:Being able to sit in space with a bag of xray guns and shit on the station is neither fun nor difficult to do.
Science is already OP enough as it is, with constant buffs to R&D.
Just like mr toxin man can get forty kills on the shuttle.
Or acid man can melt everyone.
Or robotics man can mech stomp everyone.
If the game has gone on that long then someone shitting on the station with death lasers is a fucking blessing.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
but making xrays and getting a pin/suit will take a traitor 10 minutes, from round start.
Lots of things can bone the shuttle, but atleast it involves the bomber placing bombs (or suicide bombing).
Acid is broken due to how foam works, but is indeed awful.
Robotics making a mech means getting R&D done (which they can admittedly do themselves), getting minerals, and then walking around and shitting on people, but atleast people can fight back. Unless they can get rid of the ion rifle (and probably ion carbines from R&D), mechs get dunked.
Xrays from space is literally hiding outside of the station, with a jetpack and xray guns, with no practical or reasonable way to stop them, spamming mindlessly into the station.
Atleast with monkey emp in the vents, it can be countered, although slowly.
Lots of things can bone the shuttle, but atleast it involves the bomber placing bombs (or suicide bombing).
Acid is broken due to how foam works, but is indeed awful.
Robotics making a mech means getting R&D done (which they can admittedly do themselves), getting minerals, and then walking around and shitting on people, but atleast people can fight back. Unless they can get rid of the ion rifle (and probably ion carbines from R&D), mechs get dunked.
Xrays from space is literally hiding outside of the station, with a jetpack and xray guns, with no practical or reasonable way to stop them, spamming mindlessly into the station.
Atleast with monkey emp in the vents, it can be countered, although slowly.
Last edited by lumipharon on Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
That's monstrously inaccurate.lumipharon wrote:but making xrays and getting a pin/suit will take a traitor 10 minutes, from round start.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
I will time myself if you want. R&D is so brokenly easy now, especially with a crusher.
1 sheet of metal = 177 micromanipulators.
1 manipulator = (some extremely high chance) 4 sheets of random material.
1 sheet of metal = 177 micromanipulators.
1 manipulator = (some extremely high chance) 4 sheets of random material.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Do you even need mining now?lumipharon wrote:I will time myself if you want. R&D is so brokenly easy now, especially with a crusher.
1 sheet of metal = 177 micromanipulators.
1 manipulator = (some extremely high chance) 4 sheets of random material.
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Yes and no.
Miners are muh easier minerals (an upgraded ore machine gives you FOUR TIMES THE MINERALS).
So one load from a miner is nice neat stacks, and all you'll ever need.
Of course crushers don't rely on other players. On the other hand, due to REASONS, crushers don't make uranium (which is relevent for this topic).
Miners are muh easier minerals (an upgraded ore machine gives you FOUR TIMES THE MINERALS).
So one load from a miner is nice neat stacks, and all you'll ever need.
Of course crushers don't rely on other players. On the other hand, due to REASONS, crushers don't make uranium (which is relevent for this topic).
- ThatSlyFox
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:00 am
- Byond Username: ThatSlyFox
- Location: USA!
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Lumipharon has a point, science (and mining) are extremely easy and take no more than 10 minutes to get x rays. Someone explain to me why the crusher needed to be OP now and why hasn't it been nerfed back to how it used to be?
We need to fix the problem at its source which is R&D and stop adding bullshit like the crusher.
We need to fix the problem at its source which is R&D and stop adding bullshit like the crusher.
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- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:23 am
- Byond Username: Kromgar
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
It still flatout does nto give uranium the main component for xray lasersThatSlyFox wrote:Lumipharon has a point, science (and mining) are extremely easy and take no more than 10 minutes to get x rays. Someone explain to me why the crusher needed to be OP now and why hasn't it been nerfed back to how it used to be?
We need to fix the problem at its source which is R&D and stop adding bullshit like the crusher.
Planet Station Best Station
Vote Planetstation and Kor Phaeron 2017
Vote Planetstation and Kor Phaeron 2017
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
You need one uranium ore (not sheet) to max research and make an xray lasergun.
Science could build a teleporter, teleport to the mining station (it has a beacon) and mine it themselves if they had to.
But yeah, R&D has had the biggest fucking powercreep over the last year. Having everything constructable seemed like a great idea (and for station building events, very useful). In practice though, it just means science can do everything everyone else can, only better since they have omega Xtreme upgrades, while shitting thermal/xray implants/guns/portal guns/nvg's/mechs/singularities/bikehorns out the ass because of effectively infinite minerals from MULTIPLE sources.
Science could build a teleporter, teleport to the mining station (it has a beacon) and mine it themselves if they had to.
But yeah, R&D has had the biggest fucking powercreep over the last year. Having everything constructable seemed like a great idea (and for station building events, very useful). In practice though, it just means science can do everything everyone else can, only better since they have omega Xtreme upgrades, while shitting thermal/xray implants/guns/portal guns/nvg's/mechs/singularities/bikehorns out the ass because of effectively infinite minerals from MULTIPLE sources.
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- Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 am
- Byond Username: Incomptinence
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Everything being built isn't the issue. Sounds like the crusher is plain broken and no one notices because it was previously in disposals just being used by desperate drones.
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- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:29 am
- Byond Username: Amelius
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
This poll is hugely flawed due to not having a 'do not nerf' option. Instead, we're all stuck going to the 'none of the above' option, which constitutes far more than just that.
As a result, I get the feeling that regardless of what the community thinks, it'll be pushed through. Just another shit change in a series of shit changes, obviously. Xrays have been the same literally forever, and no one had a problem with them in the past. It requires skill to line them up, and even if you're spamming from outside the station, you do indeed have to reload them, strangely enough.
As a result, I get the feeling that regardless of what the community thinks, it'll be pushed through. Just another shit change in a series of shit changes, obviously. Xrays have been the same literally forever, and no one had a problem with them in the past. It requires skill to line them up, and even if you're spamming from outside the station, you do indeed have to reload them, strangely enough.
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- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:01 pm
- Byond Username: IyaerP
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Amelius wrote:This poll is hugely flawed due to not having a 'do not nerf' option. Instead, we're all stuck going to the 'none of the above' option, which constitutes far more than just that.
As a result, I get the feeling that regardless of what the community thinks, it'll be pushed through. Just another shit change in a series of shit changes, obviously. Xrays have been the same literally forever, and no one had a problem with them in the past. It requires skill to line them up, and even if you're spamming from outside the station, you do indeed have to reload them, strangely enough.
This. Xrays have literally never been a problem in the YEARS that we've had them up till the crusher makes science easy and free. The problem isn't RnD. The problem is the crusher. It should only be putting out what materials were in the source things being crushed.
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
You guys know that xrays for most of their existance DID NOT shot through walls, right? They would go through other objects, but walls/r-walls blocked them. At the time I said that was dumb, but seeing them get abused now - yeah, naw.
It's only a comparatively new change. (less then a year conservatively)
It's only a comparatively new change. (less then a year conservatively)
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Goofball buffed the crusher massively a few days ago, which is the problemIncomptinence wrote:Everything being built isn't the issue. Sounds like the crusher is plain broken and no one notices because it was previously in disposals just being used by desperate drones.


kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.![]()
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- Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 am
- Byond Username: Incomptinence
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Well that is a problem I agree why do you let people have infinite non uranium metals goof?
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- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 am
- Byond Username: Gun Hog
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Please do not go nerfing Xray guns and all of Science. The massive increase in Science effectiveness and output is directly due to two things: Ore Redemption Machine upgrades which gives 4x minerals at max upgrades, and the crusher, which poops every material except uranium. That is the cause, and the solution is to simply remove those two things (keep the refine speed and more points though). I generally hate nerfs, as they tend to be done in a way that fixes nothing and degrades the experience of players with little benefit to others...that being said, the mineral balance was fine until Science got its own source of minerals.
Fixing this issue at the source is 1,000 times better than nerfing everything in Science instead, and that is why I make this statement.
Fixing this issue at the source is 1,000 times better than nerfing everything in Science instead, and that is why I make this statement.
- hanshansenhansson
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:16 am
- Byond Username: HansDampf
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
You all talk as if xrays are lategame. They appear after 20 to 25mins top, if someone works on them. That is the problem.
- RG4
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:19 am
- Byond Username: RG4ORDR
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Seeing as I've played RD many times during blob rounds and have the satisfaction of making xray lasers at least maybe 3-4 times the claims of it being TOO OP is one damn stupid claim. I've made this argument before and it's always a factor when making xray lasers.
1. Does Mining/Did have players that have turned in the minerals to actually get the xray lasers from RnD?
2. Is the RnD smart enough to actually get the research needed for the damn things?
3. Last I did it on /tg/ combat shotties from cargo were needed for Xray lasers
Science is solely dependent on cargo/mining, with the odd exception of what people are saying about some crusher giving mineral for metal, which is fucking retarded. If they can deliver certain things that allow the construction of an x-ray laser then what do blobs have to fear? If the crew is on point then GG should pop in or near science to stop them.
This is a NON-EXSISTANT PROBLEM that some people think need to be fixed because they've been on the receiving end of getting x-ray lasered, this has never been an issue before at all.
1. Does Mining/Did have players that have turned in the minerals to actually get the xray lasers from RnD?
2. Is the RnD smart enough to actually get the research needed for the damn things?
3. Last I did it on /tg/ combat shotties from cargo were needed for Xray lasers
Science is solely dependent on cargo/mining, with the odd exception of what people are saying about some crusher giving mineral for metal, which is fucking retarded. If they can deliver certain things that allow the construction of an x-ray laser then what do blobs have to fear? If the crew is on point then GG should pop in or near science to stop them.
This is a NON-EXSISTANT PROBLEM that some people think need to be fixed because they've been on the receiving end of getting x-ray lasered, this has never been an issue before at all.
- phil235
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:39 am
- Byond Username: Phil235
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
How much time and effort it takes RnD to make xray is irrelevant, the xray gun obliterates the blob. No item should be able to counter an antag 100% of the time, that's why we don't have armors absorbing 100% of the damage for example. Also, I think many of you overestimate how big the proposed nerf is. Even the biggest nerf option would still leave the xray as the best weapon against the blob, hitting multiple blobtiles from off the screen. The blob would still have very little chance to survive against it.
I'm a tgstation coding maintainer janitor
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- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:29 am
- Byond Username: Amelius
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
You do realize that the point by which xrays are acquired is also the point that the bleb has hit the point of no return, and is way too huge to fight with anything but xrays?phil235 wrote:How much time and effort it takes RnD to make xray is irrelevant, the xray gun obliterates the blob. No item should be able to counter an antag 100% of the time, that's why we don't have armors absorbing 100% of the damage for example. Also, I think many of you overestimate how big the proposed nerf is. Even the biggest nerf option would still leave the xray as the best weapon against the blob, hitting multiple blobtiles from off the screen. The blob would still have very little chance to survive against it.
Secondly, you do realize that, if not for xrays, chem blob would be dominating more than it feels like they are already. Killing two blobbies and being knocked out for 10 minutes is really really bad, yet you call xrays OP? Secondly, the blob doesn't insta-lose with xrays being in the picture - at that point they're often massive and nigh undefeatable. If more blobs did smart shit like, say, building storage nodes and banking resources to rush an xray user, then suddenly you'd find that they'd be much less powerful. Furthermore, I've noticed astonishing amounts of blob players literally not creating resource/fac nodes, not splitting, and so on, yet many still wind up winning, or give the crew a long-ass fight until xrays come into the picture, despite doing literally nothing to build their economy.
Furthermore, you're ignoring the community just like Cheri/Pap. 15 people said 'none of the above'. Don't push your changes on us because you believe they're required. Remake the poll with an actual 'no nerf' option. If you don't give a fuck about the community, and only care what yourself thinks, why are you even pretending with this poll?
- RG4
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:19 am
- Byond Username: RG4ORDR
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Once again I say this;Amelius wrote:You do realize that the point by which xrays are acquired is also the point that the bleb has hit the point of no return, and is way too huge to fight with anything but xrays?phil235 wrote:How much time and effort it takes RnD to make xray is irrelevant, the xray gun obliterates the blob. No item should be able to counter an antag 100% of the time, that's why we don't have armors absorbing 100% of the damage for example. Also, I think many of you overestimate how big the proposed nerf is. Even the biggest nerf option would still leave the xray as the best weapon against the blob, hitting multiple blobtiles from off the screen. The blob would still have very little chance to survive against it.
Secondly, you do realize that, if not for xrays, chem blob would be dominating more than it feels like they are already. Killing two blobbies and being knocked out for 10 minutes is really really bad, yet you call xrays OP? Secondly, the blob doesn't insta-lose with xrays being in the picture - at that point they're often massive and nigh undefeatable. If more blobs did smart shit like, say, building storage nodes and banking resources to rush an xray user, then suddenly you'd find that they'd be much less powerful. Furthermore, I've noticed astonishing amounts of blob players literally not creating resource/fac nodes, not splitting, and so on, yet many still wind up winning, or give the crew a long-ass fight until xrays come into the picture, despite doing literally nothing to build their economy.
Furthermore, you're ignoring the community just like Cheri/Pap. 15 people said 'none of the above'. Don't push your changes on us because you believe they're required. Remake the poll with an actual 'no nerf' option. If you don't give a fuck about the community, and only care what yourself thinks, why are you even pretending with this poll?
THIS IS A NON-ISSUE, NEVER HAVE PEOPLE BITCHED AND MOANED ABOUT THE XRAY LASER.
It's evidently clear that the OP had a bad experience on the receiving end of an xray laser, otherwise this makes no sense to try and change something that for years hasn't been changed.
- hanshansenhansson
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:16 am
- Byond Username: HansDampf
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
It takes 2 people, maximum 3, 25mins to make xray lasers. Just one competent person with an xray can then solo the blob. That is just boring. Currently blob rounds for the crew consist of doing whatever they like, until xray guns come out, then crew wins. Just boring gameplay. Pay attention to dead chat as soon as blob is announced, lots of players agree and hit the /suicide once it becomes clear. It is just not fun in the current state.
- Skyglazer
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:34 am
- Byond Username: Skyglazer
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
This is the biggest case of "I got killed by this, please nerf it," I've ever seen, it's not even subtle. It's already been stated in this thread the counters to x-rays and I don't feel like it needs to be said again but x-ray guns do not need to be nerfed at all. If anything, nerf goofball's stupid-good new research changes, but not the entirety of research itself.
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- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:29 am
- Byond Username: Amelius
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
What's more likely, people suicide because xrays are 'OP', in your words? Or because blob is boring in it's current rendition because it's procedural and barely anything changes round-to-round? How would downgrading xrays make blob better? Wouldn't it just extend the round length of an already longish round type that barely anyone likes? Wouldn't it just make blobs even more indominable?hanshansenhansson wrote:Pay attention to dead chat as soon as blob is announced, lots of players agree and hit the /suicide once it becomes clear. It is just not fun in the current state.
Few want this change. Make a real poll with a 'don't change it' option and you'll see that the majority disagrees with you.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Who do I have to vote for headmin to get people like this permabanned from anything associated with TGstation.
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
People haven't bitched and moaned about the xray until recenly because people havent abused it until recently.
It's the same thing with flashes. They got changed to their current state quite a while ago, but it's only just recently that people have brought it up/raised the issue.
It's the same thing with flashes. They got changed to their current state quite a while ago, but it's only just recently that people have brought it up/raised the issue.
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- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:29 am
- Byond Username: Amelius
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
> Changelog.
> Nerfed the xray gun.
So basically you don't give a flying fuck what people think. Don't make feedback polls and don't pretend you care about our opinions if you're just going to spout loaded questions ('so xray gun is OP and needs to be nerfed', without proving that the xray gun is OP) as a given premise while changing things anyway if we disagree with you.
> Nerfed the xray gun.
So basically you don't give a flying fuck what people think. Don't make feedback polls and don't pretend you care about our opinions if you're just going to spout loaded questions ('so xray gun is OP and needs to be nerfed', without proving that the xray gun is OP) as a given premise while changing things anyway if we disagree with you.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
That.Amelius wrote:> Changelog.
> Nerfed the xray gun.
So basically you don't give a flying fuck what people think. Don't make feedback polls and don't pretend you care about our opinions if you're just going to spout loaded questions ('so xray gun is OP and needs to be nerfed', without proving that the xray gun is OP) as a given premise while changing things anyway if we disagree with you.
60% votes don't nerf. Nerfs anyway.
which is a big middle finger to everyone participating in these kinds of discussions.
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- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
I keep saying to stop fucking voting in polls because its rare anybody listens to them anyway.
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- tedward1337
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 12:54 am
- Byond Username: Tedward1337
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Saegrimr wrote:I keep saying to stop fucking voting in polls because its rare anybody listens to them anyway.
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- PKPenguin321
- Site Admin
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
- Byond Username: PKPenguin321
- Github Username: PKPenguin321
- Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
To be fair, all he ended up doing was shortening their range to 15 tiles. They still pierce everything, the beams just won't go on forever and ever looping through space infinitely. I don't recall them doing that before, so this could practically be considered a fix.
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- RG4
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:19 am
- Byond Username: RG4ORDR
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Rather than sayingPKPenguin321 wrote:To be fair, all he ended up doing was shortening their range to 15 tiles. They still pierce everything, the beams just won't go on forever and ever looping through space infinitely. I don't recall them doing that before, so this could practically be considered a fix.
"NERFED XRAY LASER"
It should've said
"Decreased the range to 15 tiles'
The only bad thing is that they're usually done to gauge public opinion and usually get discarded when the coder does what they want. No offense to coders but if they're gonna put a pull they really should abide but the public opinion rather than their own.Saegrimr wrote:I keep saying to stop fucking voting in polls because its rare anybody listens to them anyway.
- ChangelingRain
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:36 pm
- Byond Username: ChangelingRain
- Github Username: ChangelingRain
- Location: The biggest lake
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
If a "nerf" down to 15 tile range makes people stop using the xray laser, then they probably have no idea how long 15 tiles is.
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- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:01 pm
- Byond Username: IyaerP
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
I do mad bomber all the time. I know precisely how long it is, and htat is one more than the radius of bombcap.Anonus wrote:If a "nerf" down to 15 tile range makes people stop using the xray laser, then they probably have no idea how long 15 tiles is.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
- Byond Username: DemonFiren
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
xrays also completely invalidate gang.
Today during a gang round where I was RD (not a gangster), one gang setup a dominator in viro, 300s timer or so.
I had time to make xray lasers, get firing pins, get an xray implant put into me, before I proceeded to MASSACRE THE EVERY LOVING SHIT out of the dominator, and most of the gang from the safety of maint.
I would have wiped them completely out if it wasn't for sec bombing me by accident.
But atleast the 15 range nerf means it can't just be spammed through the station from space.
Today during a gang round where I was RD (not a gangster), one gang setup a dominator in viro, 300s timer or so.
I had time to make xray lasers, get firing pins, get an xray implant put into me, before I proceeded to MASSACRE THE EVERY LOVING SHIT out of the dominator, and most of the gang from the safety of maint.
I would have wiped them completely out if it wasn't for sec bombing me by accident.
But atleast the 15 range nerf means it can't just be spammed through the station from space.
- PKPenguin321
- Site Admin
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
- Byond Username: PKPenguin321
- Github Username: PKPenguin321
- Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Re: [Poll] xray gun nerf
Are extremely strong ambushes like these not the intended use of a gun that shoots through walls (and requires a very decent amount of time to set up, during which the entire process can be easily sabotaged)? I don't see the problem, honestly.lumipharon wrote:xrays also completely invalidate gang.
Today during a gang round where I was RD (not a gangster), one gang setup a dominator in viro, 300s timer or so.
I had time to make xray lasers, get firing pins, get an xray implant put into me, before I proceeded to MASSACRE THE EVERY LOVING SHIT out of the dominator, and most of the gang from the safety of maint.
I would have wiped them completely out if it wasn't for sec bombing me by accident.
But atleast the 15 range nerf means it can't just be spammed through the station from space.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure xray lasers were tweaked to not damage gang dominators as much in a recent gang PR.
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