John_Oxford wrote:I'd like to point out,
/GOOD/ traitors, find ways to get around the obstacles presented to them (The AI, Security, Heads)
Personally, in my opinion, if you don't change anything at all, and give it time (Also ignoring all the bitchy bad traitors) Because with time, people will adapt to the situation, and learn how handle certain situations with the AI, Sec, and Heads. Once we figure out their ways of getting around them, we can work off this from there.
Nerfing/Removing everything involved with your problem is a VERY shitty way to do it. Don't.
People will eventually figure out how to get around their problems in general, without some overlord insta-fixing all the problems to ever exist ever.
This is literally the worst post I have ever seen on these forums.
This makes Cheridan's post defending locked NukeOp hardsuits and removal of explosive implants seem like a coherent, well-ordered argument.
Traitors have been shit for YEARS. YEARS. You know what's happened in that time? Every robust player on the server, with 1-2 exceptions, has turned off traitor because it isn't even fun to roll one as an antag. Greentext doesn't motivate older players, interesting rounds motivate older players. Playing as a traitor once you've tried all their gimmicks is the antithesis of interesting. A lot of the more entertaining traitor tactics have been nerfed into the ground and what's left is as entertaining as watching paint dry.
The neutered state of traitors is precisely because some "overlord" came in and nerfed/removed everything that made traitors fun to play. Now you're sitting here telling us that "THAT WONT WORK". No it works extremely well, we wouldn't be posting about this if coder changes to traitor never had an effect on their power. The coders who almost never play the game, and certainly never play as antag, would get robusted one round by a decent traitor and then take all their rage onto github and do everything in their power to nerf whatever was used to kill them. And guess what, it's been extremely effective. Nobody said back then "JUST WAIT, LET SECURITY FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH TRAITORS/LINGS, GOOD SEC PLAYERS WILL FIGURE OUT HOW TO COUNTER THEM AND ONCE THEY DO THEN WE CAN WORK FROM THERE".
No, we just got a bunch of shitty changes with absolutely no thought put into them. It boiled down to basically "this thing kills people a lot, lets nerf it", without anyone actually asking "WHAT MAKES THIS GAME FUN? WILL TRAITORS BE ABLE TO SERVE AS EFFECTIVE ANTAGONISTS IF WE REMOVE THIS?"
Same thing applies to all the anti-antag buffs that sec/AI/game mechanics received.
Active antag players and coders as a population have almost NO overlap. The people responsible for making every round entertaining have absolutely no input on the changes being made to them. So now, ever so slowly, people are starting to realize that the game is worse off when 80% of antag gametypes are indistinguishable from Extended. Why would I invest the significant energy it takes to play a good traitor, setting up my plan and executing it over the course of half an hour, just to have the AI's suit sensor button and helmet-cam access find me stealth-killing a sec officer in maint, use the PDA/default all-channel access to tip off security without alerting me, and then having a secborg and half of security bust in on my corner of maint 30 seconds later. Or since gibbing is almost impossible now, I space the body, it floats back to arrivals and 5 minutes later I find myself bolted into the dorms because the clone informed the AI who killed him.
And that's in MAINT, I can't even count the times I've silently killed someone ON-CAMERA and in the process of hiding/looting the body I see red lights blink on all the doors in the room I'm in.
Nobody thinks this game can hold its own without antagonists. A large majority of players have reached the consensus that traitors are no longer effective antagonists. This isn't rocket science, traitors need to be able to inspire fear and provide intrigue once again. I'd much rather be a pile of gibs watching a traitor slowly pick off his coworkers in science, than be alive 99% of rounds watching the fucking paint dry because the 5 traitors selected in a 60 person round have bought balloons because nobody has an incentive to even be a hostile traitor when the odds are completely stacked against you.
In short, you haven't even the faintest idea of what you're talking about. You could give me a lobotomy and I still wouldn't be able to surpass your post in the magnitude of its irrationality or its disconnection from reality. The attitude your preaching is pure unadulterated cancer that will kill SS13 far sooner than anyone expects. Traitor was killed by coders, and its only going to be revived by coders, "the players will learn to work around it" was a mantra that was widely disproved years ago. The community rotates through new blood too often and experienced players don't have the incentives to play an intentionally gimped or frustrating role. Aside from brand new roundtypes, "Just give it time, the players will adapt" is just a patently false statement. Everyone in this thread is dumber for having heard your argument, you get no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
