Why is this incinerator leaking heat and pressure?

[Oldman Robustin]

http://i.imgur.com/s7j2j3A.png

Seriously. Within 5 seconds of firing it up I was being crushed and burned standing a few tiles away. When I've done similar fire mixes in Toxins or the Incinerator I could stand between the airlocks and not feel a thing.

[Bluespace]

you didn't use enough secret sauce sorry bro :/

[Incoming]

There's a game mechanic where certain atmos pieces "leak" heat/cold, and it's previously been imperceptible due to how atmos was riggled up, but when fastmos/the MC rewrite came atmos got fast and suddenly imperceptible small losses became big nearly immediate ones. See also: Cryo rapidly wasting all the oxygen when left open.

[Falamazeer]

well, what about the vacuum sealed double doors in toxins? You got no insulation like that at all, I'm more surprised the pressure didn't just push the door away.

[Actionb]

Heat leaks through airlocks, it always has - fastmos just makes it more apparent. Incinerator and toxins have special snowflake airlocks, apparently. A setup like this works, however:
http://i.imgur.com/PNtMZen.jpg

[Ricotez]

When I programmed the airlock painter I wrote it in such a way that it will always set heat_proof to 0, EXCEPT for the glass research airlock where it will set it to 1. So if you want a heat-proof airlock, turn it into a glass airlock during construction, then paint it in the Research palette.

Thinking back on it now I might change it to something else, like having to use plasteel on the door during construction to make it heat-proof or something like that.

[Oldman Robustin]

When I programmed the airlock painter I wrote it in such a way that it will always set heat_proof to 0, EXCEPT for the glass research airlock where it will set it to 1. So if you want a heat-proof airlock, turn it into a glass airlock during construction, then paint it in the Research palette.

Thinking back on it now I might change it to something else, like having to use plasteel on the door during construction to make it heat-proof or something like that.

Holy shit, so I can get the special snowflake doors with a door painting tool?

I was worried it was a special snowflake situation, but everyone I asked in OOC/Ahelp kept coming up with different answers (it has to be R_wall, oh you didn't cover the corners, you're using too much gas).

Going to go try this now (and probably turn a room in the station into a superheated fuckstorm again).

[DemonFiren]

Before you do, I'll codedive this and check it on a test server...
...unless you already went ahead.

[Oldman Robustin]

I just did it.

It's exactly as he said, research painted airlock are magic that don't leak anything.

My dreams are now attainable.

[DemonFiren]

Yours and mine both.

HAIL ATMOSIA, KINGDOM OF THE PIPES, it's plasma time.

[Ricotez]

the special snowflake situation is exactly why I had to write the painter that way

if you look in airlock.dm you will see it starts with a list of airlock subtypes and the only subtype that had heat_proof set to 1 when i started messing with it was the glass research airlock

i didn't want to risk breaking everything so i just gave the painter magic heat proofing abilities that only work with that one specific airlock type

[oranges]

Can you file that as a bug so we know to fix it somewhere down the line?

[lumipharon]

Surely all the airlocks, designed for use in SPACE would have pretty good thermal insulation?

Now that I bring that up, would that mean having solid airlocks to space let cold through?

[Saegrimr]

I don't see why we can't just have all airlocks be heatproof, attempting to build multiple airlocks to block heat is more resource intensive than building rwalls. I guess if you don't have access to EVA or engineering it might not be but you still need to get those airlock electronics from somewhere.

[Falamazeer]

Surely all the airlocks, designed for use in SPACE would have pretty good thermal insulation?

Now that I bring that up, would that mean having solid airlocks to space let cold through?

Not really, space isn't cold not in the normal sense Most thermal transfer in normal earth conditions is through induction, like a pan on a stove eye, hot thing touching less hot thing.
But in space you're touching a vaccum, therefore nothing, no induction, You lose heat through radiation, Not like uranium, like radiant heat infrared and such, like how the predator see's you, anything with appreciable temp bleeds IR, including a space station.

The international space station controls this by fighting it on two fronts, special insulation that bounces heat from exterior walls back towards the rooms, and through direct heating. Space heaters and shit, even the computers push out a few degrees that they take advantage of.

So if anything, All the walls should be bleeding heat equally but negligibly as it's assumed it's being accounted for through atmos, the AI, all the electronics, body temp, the microwave oven and everything really, so it's not worth coding.

[Stickymayhem]

Oh my god how did you people make the majesty of space boring in one thread

[Falamazeer]

I totally did it, Not in one thread, but in one single post.

And I did it with SCIENCE!

[Ricotez]

I'll add it to my to-do list, it shouldn't be a lot of work to fix. I only have to update airlock construction to keep track of thermal insulation status, and allow it to accept some plasteel during construction to make it so. I don't even have to touch the glass research airlock subtype because it's only used for the toxins incinerator anyway. (If I did touch it I'd have to update the map too, with all the headaches that involves.)


EDIT: Issue added to the tracker: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/9437

[Oldman Robustin]

So I built one similar to the screenshot, near atmos, with 1 airlock, and it worked fine.


Then I built one with 4 research airlocks to the North/South/East/West and then 4 walls covering the corners, and it went back to leaking like crazy.

I can't figure out this voodoo. Why would it not leak out of 1 research airlock and regular walls on the other sides, but 4 research airlocks is seemingly impotent.

[Ricotez]

I'm looking at the assembly code but I cannot see anything wrong with it. If you paint the airlock during assembly it will set the path that it will use to create the finalized airlock to the glass Research airlock subtype, which has heat_proof set to 1, and if you paint the airlock after assembly it will change heat_proof itself.

Are you sure the airlocks were glass? Also did you build the airlocks yourself or did you spawn them in? There is also a Science airlock type in the code which has a slightly different shade of purple, but it is not heat-proof, is completely unused and there is no way to create one short from spawning one in yourself.

[Oldman Robustin]

I'm looking at the assembly code but I cannot see anything wrong with it. If you paint the airlock during assembly it will set the path that it will use to create the finalized airlock to the glass Research airlock subtype, which has heat_proof set to 1, and if you paint the airlock after assembly it will change heat_proof itself.

Are you sure the airlocks were glass? Also did you build the airlocks yourself or did you spawn them in? There is also a Science airlock type in the code which has a slightly different shade of purple, but it is not heat-proof, is completely unused and there is no way to create one short from spawning one in yourself.

Oh I just realized in the second example I painted the airlocks after they were finished.

I've got to remember this step next time I engage in this heatproof atmos voodoo.

Thanks!

[Ricotez]

I'm looking at the assembly code but I cannot see anything wrong with it. If you paint the airlock during assembly it will set the path that it will use to create the finalized airlock to the glass Research airlock subtype, which has heat_proof set to 1, and if you paint the airlock after assembly it will change heat_proof itself.

Are you sure the airlocks were glass? Also did you build the airlocks yourself or did you spawn them in? There is also a Science airlock type in the code which has a slightly different shade of purple, but it is not heat-proof, is completely unused and there is no way to create one short from spawning one in yourself.

Oh I just realized in the second example I painted the airlocks after they were finished.

I've got to remember this step next time I engage in this heatproof atmos voodoo.

Thanks!

That's the thing though... That should still work. If you paint the airlock after finishing it, the painter SHOULD modify heat_proof itself.

[spasticVerbalizer]

This has been changed with this PR, all glass airlocks with reinforced glass will block heat regardless of paintjob.

[Ricotez]

nice

[imblyings]

may as well ask a related question

can the turbine engine ever output more than around 100k watts? I've been able to get a steady 100k with burnmix pumping straight from atmos but it just won't go higher.

[spasticVerbalizer]

can the turbine engine ever output more than around 100k watts? I've been able to get a steady 100k with burnmix pumping straight from atmos but it just won't go higher.

A quick look at the turbine code says yes, but you'll probably need to upgrade the parts (manipulators in compressor for higher RPM, capacitors in turbine for higher productivity).

[DemonFiren]

I managed to get somewhere around 180-200k with an upgraded turbine, so yes.

[Akkryls]

I'm going to ask here since we're on the topic of Incinerators anyway.
I can't always seem to get the incinerator to ignite simply using the igniter already installed, I usually have to chuck in a welder or something to get it going.

What am I doing wrong?

[DemonFiren]

That's something that has never once happened to me. Check your burnmix composition and chamber pressure.

[Akkryls]

Alrighty, it may have been a fluke last time I was setting it up, seems to work alright now.
Does opening either of the vents actually do anything or are they designed for reaching the turbine / venting gas?

[DemonFiren]

'Open', how? They're pre-configured in the air alarm (the inbound vent has internal pressure bound 0, so it will always pump out, the other one might as well be a scrubber set to syphon afaik.)

[Akkryls]

'Open', how? They're pre-configured in the air alarm (the inbound vent has internal pressure bound 0, so it will always pump out, the other one might as well be a scrubber set to syphon afaik.)

The blast shutters on the turbine. The ones with the buttons on the wall to open them.

[DemonFiren]

Aux vent vents the burn chamber, as you'd expect, and does so more quickly than using the scrubber.
Main turbine vent is required for the turbine to run - that is, required for the pressure difference between burn chamber and turbine.

Also, the vents are good access points for turbine upgrades.