Headmin Candidate: Kor

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:33 pm

UPDATE: I will be one of three head admins with no authority to deadmin, no authority over the codebase etc. I can try working with people, but I'm not going to be in control of the rules, the code, or most importantly the player attitude. I won't be able to usher some mythical golden age all on my own. Please have realistic expectations about this, I'm afraid everyone is going to be disappointed at this rate.

I don't really expect to win. I don't think many people remember me, and I'm not sure my play style matches the current atmosphere. I won't do much campaigning either. Not that campaigning is really feasible without the ability to spawn pulse rifles.

Anyway I don't want to type a ton of shit nobody will read so

-Started playing in 2010
-Was an admin for several years
-Have been offered headmin twice before (once by SoS, and the headmins vetod him adding me, and once by TLE, which I declined)
-Had remote access for ~2 years and updated/restarted the servers without going nuts and deleting everything
-Worked tirelessly to get shitty admins deadminned. I think I got 8 people deadminned
-I'm friends with several head admins/head coders so hopefully there can be some sort of working relationship
-Coded for several years and I think what I added was generally well received (and I actually listened to feedback and removed/disabled things people disliked, such as Away Missions)
-Basically already ran the server because I was the only active admin in most of 2011. One admin, 70 player /v/ invasion, was wonderful.
-I believe almost everything should be an IC issue and that the appropriate response to grief is throwing the offender out an airlock, not asking admins to do it. Obviously there is more nuance than this, but that's the gist of it.
-I believe admin involvement should primarily be fixing bugs, running small events (not hitting the xeno button 10 times) and respawning players who died in shitty circumstances. Example: Two people got into a fight when Ikarrus made me a tempmin, one ended up dieing to bloodloss without the other person realizing. Instead of banning someone I respawned the victim as a megacarp and told them to go hunt down the person who griffed them. Nobody was banned, everybody was happy in the end.
-I've done a bunch of work at schools. I'm only half joking when I say dealing with players is like dealing with elementary school kids. People get into fights for dumb reasons, you have to mediate and calm them down. I handle admin pretty much the same way I did working there. I try to make sure everyone gets what they want/compromises without having to throw people out. Being compared to children might offend people but whatever. Point being I'm looking to make sure everyone is satisfied and still playing, not banned.

I realize I'm way out of touch with things. If people want to return to a time of more lax rules then vote for me. If not, that's cool as well.

tl;dr Admins should be more like GMs facilitating rounds and resolving disputes, not looking to ban (and avoiding PMs for that matter if they can). I've already been in a greater position of power than what the current headmins are and managed not to abuse it.

I'll make a longer post about my views on the game as a whole (including code and whatever) in the next post/answer questions

Also this seems like a good as place as any to apologize to anyone I was an asshole to before I left, I was not at a good point in my life.

KOR HAS DROPPED OUT OF THE RACE

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:34 pm

Here is my philosophy or whatever on the game. You may recognize some parts from singulo.

SS13 has three important parts to it, in no particular order: violence/conflict, sandbox, roleplay

The violence is the backbone of the game. All the round types revolve around killing people or taking their stuff (usually violently). Without this, it'd be 24/7 extended, and nobody would play.

The sandbox make the rounds interesting, it gives you different ways to kill people (and take their stuff). It gives you different ways to react to being killed and having your stuff taken. Without this, every round would be more or less the same, and it'd be mindless repetition.

The roleplay gives it all context, and turns the violence into a story. The game would be boring as hell if it was just endless combat with no meaning.

Code changes
Unfortunatley there is a group of players/coders with some unfathomable attitude that we don't need the gameplay aspects of SS13, and players should just "roleplay." Tons of toys get removed from the sandbox, the capacity for violence is diminished by rule and code changes, etc. They mock people for wanting something to actually happen in the game instead of waiting 2 hours and calling the shuttle out of boredom. This strikes me as completley crazy. SS13 is not a good environment for deep roleplay. It's chaotic and violent and resets every half an hour to 2 hours, wiping out any building projects (and supposedly resetting your character, because the game starts breaking down if people metafriend too hard).

"So you hate roleplay?"

No I don't hate roleplay. I enjoy staying in character, and I think just grabbing the most dangerous item in your workplace to go kill badguys roundtstart is dumb. I'll drag bodies back to centcomm "for cloning." I'll happily chatter away as a pAI, or do stupid shit as the clown. I speak as a borg while a borg. I removed the gibbers at centomm because it ruined my immersions. Having a prompt for the roleplay does not diminish the roleplay. I wouldn't run a game of DnD and tell people they were all locked in an empty inn, and they weren't allowed to kill people, then mock them for being bad roleplayers if they wanted something to happen.

Anyway, the game is also heavily flawed. From a pure design standpoint (without any ideals about roleplay, etc) the station jobs are either

A) Meaningless busy work
B) Geared towards building weapons (science, genetics, mining). However you can't actually use these weapons on anyone because if the round lasts long enough to build them, the antags are dead or very quiet.
C) Exist to undo damage badguys do (doctors, security, engineering)

The jobs only really exist as methods for people to kill each other/a paper thin pretext to stop people from roving around in valid hunting mobs, and yet we're supposed to just do them instead of get into fights. Creative endeavours have also been severely limited (going to the derelict, building/deconstructing things takes longer, etc) in the name of balancing the violence.

How do we fix that? I'm not sure. I tried to add a crew endgame via away missions but it didn't go very well. I think a large part of that was because I kept enabling them at 5-20 minutes into the round instead of the planned 40 because I was eager to test them. The other reason people hated them was because people would drop their jobs and go play the away mission instead of waiting around for an antag to esword them, which again, speaks to how dull the jobs are. This is probably the most important part of my whole rant. The core gameplay is broken, it needs a fix other than just rules.

Death

Death can be fun, but it's not fun to be dead for 2 hours. Slowing down the game/the violence, in an effort to deal with this, has made the problem worse. Ways to respawn should be added, and the rounds should rarely last over an hour.

Rule Changes

Basically a rehash of the above. The game was designed for conflict, such as (non antag) AIs getting in fights with the crew, genetics/robotics fighting over bodies, chef and bartender fighting over pun pun, etc. In an understandable desire to curb greifing, a bunch of rules strangling the potential for non antag conflict/roleplay were put in place. I think this is also a poor idea. You wouldn't set a hard rule against killing plot important NPCs in a game of DnD if one of your asshole players kept killing the quest givers on sight, you'd just eject him from the group. We shouldn't let people who have no regard for the rest of the community rules lawyer us to the extent we have. Yes this means the rules would be greyer, yes this is open to abuse.

The other major flaw in this game is that I would not run a game of DnD with 90 people who hated eachother. Roleplay is a collaborative effort, something you do with friends, not a bunch of strangers who are tasked with killing eachother. It worked with 20-30 people in a smaller community, it's outta control now.

Player attitude
Some people want things to go their way 100% of the time. They will adminhelp after you kick their ass when they grief you, they will adminhelp after you kick their ass when they're an antag (powergamer!), they will adminhelp if you don't powergame hard enough and they die because of it. They will tell you "well if you aren't banning Player for doing X, I will do it every round. It doesn't matter how much the rules change if players are going to get upset so easily and ask the admins to play the game for them. I can't force people to do this (other than replying with "valid" or "IC issue" to pretty much everything) but that would probably upset a ton of people. If you want a laxer ruleset, you have to chill out yourselves and stop trying to take meta revenge on people that piss you off in game.

I think a lot of this could be alleviated if we made death less awful/gave players more things to work together on, but in the end it comes down to if you guys want this or not.

tl;dr

SS13 is a game with many contradictory elements, but at the heart of all of them is conflict. We should make that conflict more fun for more people with respawns and the like, not seek to limit said conflicts.

Tsaricide · Post by **Tsaricide** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:35 pm #78316

Who the fuck is Brian-PC?

danno · Post by **danno** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:40 pm #78319

Who did you get deadminned?

I like that thing about the megacarp, I'd like to see more stuff dealt with in that way by admins.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:44 pm #78320

Whats your opinion on the current policy that completely forbids HoSes from executing people, even confirmed traitors, without getting captain's approval (compared to the old days where it was just an IC issue)?

Whats your stance on batons in relation to clowns/assistants?

Greytide or rainbowtide?

Whats your opinion on antag sec?

And antag Captains?

Have you forgiven me yet for the Syndicake test?

Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:54 pm

I like the ideas about resolving stuff IC and admins focusing on trying to resolve disputes instead of just banning people.

So if a security officer just found an assistant to be total shit would it just be cool for him to throw the guy outta an airlock?
Also Malkevin that isn't policy iirc
you don't need Captains approval and if you do that's just stupid

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:57 pm #78327

The HoS needs the captain's approval to execute anyone but there are some extenuating circumstances where nobody has cared.

Blatant murderboner antags, breaking into the armory, and some other situations where it happened and everyone was just collectively like "Eh, you had it coming.".

I have to say the whole "hands off everybody let the server run itself everything is IC" attitude is one of the major reasons a lot of the good old crowd eventually left. And when the going got tough and the server was filling to the brim with shitters a lot of the people who advocated that playstyle, rather than address the problem, up and left. You included.

"People let assholes get away with everything and the server is griff central" was what most people answered when I asked them why they quit.

What is your idea of a compromise between then and now?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:01 pm #78329

Yeah, its a rule SoS forced in when TLE updated the rules.
I don't think any admin has actually banned someone for it though, so meh

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:04 pm #78331

Malkevin wrote:Yeah, its a rule SoS forced in when TLE updated the rules.
I don't think any admin has actually banned someone for it though, so meh

If you guys don't like it get rid of it. I'm not that kind of host.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:07 pm

An0n3 wrote:
Malkevin wrote:Yeah, its a rule SoS forced in when TLE updated the rules.
I don't think any admin has actually banned someone for it though, so meh
If you guys don't like it get rid of it. I'm not that kind of host.

As in a poll? or letting the new headmins decide?
because it's an awful rule

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:14 pm #78337

It would be up the headmins, yeah. Which is why you should be grilling all these guys on what kinds of rules they want to add/eliminate.

My responsibility to this server is now keeping the lights on, keeping it updated, restarting it when it breaks, helping coderbus figure out why it broke, making sure the people in charge aren't all giving eachother tater or other shit, and a hundred million other tiny responsibilities.

Rules and bans aint me anymore. I don't want 'em.

I WILL say if I remember something fucking the whole server up before. I will warn people about repeating old mistakes because I was there and I had to administrate over it. But feel free to try the experiment again. Maybe it'll work out this time. It's not my problem if it works or doesn't. Yell at the headmins.

EndgamerAzari · Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:24 pm

Though I'm a bit leery of the laissez-faire approach to administration, I considered Kor one of my best friends way back in my early /tg/station days (though I imagine he's forgotten that, not that I blame him). The "respawn and seek vengeance for unjustifiable murder" method was one I used a lot when I was an admin, though, and I fully support creative/funny solutions to player complaints as opposed to immediate DING DONG BANNU. Kor always struck me as a reasonable and approachable person, so I think he'd be a good headmin. So there's my endorsement, for whatever minuscule amount it's worth.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:11 pm #78365

An0n3 wrote:I have to say the whole "hands off everybody let the server run itself everything is IC" attitude is one of the major reasons a lot of the good old crowd eventually left.

tbh this is the opposite of the reason shit went wrong
i wish we went back to 2012 administration

or just brought back sigyn

danno · Post by **danno** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:21 pm #78373

An0n3 wrote: I have to say the whole "hands off everybody let the server run itself everything is IC" attitude is one of the major reasons a lot of the good old crowd eventually left. And when the going got tough and the server was filling to the brim with shitters a lot of the people who advocated that playstyle, rather than address the problem, up and left. You included.

I talk to a lot of "good old crowd" folks who quit and I would actually say the majority of them left for the opposite reason.

I don't think that's what Kor means, either. You're exaggerating it a bit.

fagboy420 · Post by **fagboy420** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:23 pm #78375

kor you need to fucking stop

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:29 pm

danno wrote:Who did you get deadminned?

I like that thing about the megacarp, I'd like to see more stuff dealt with in that way by admins.

PADOI
PADOI again
PADOI for a third time
Conot
Failcakes
Wintermote
Threadstrong
Parket

And that's pretty much my go to method for dealing with adminhelps unless the offender is straight up random killing. Putting people in Ian is usually popular.

Malkevin wrote:Whats your opinion on the current policy that completely forbids HoSes from executing people, even confirmed traitors, without getting captain's approval (compared to the old days where it was just an IC issue)?

Shitty policy

Whats your stance on batons in relation to clowns/assistants?

Harm intent, target head

Greytide or rainbowtide?

Greytide worldwide

Whats your opinion on antag sec?

Needed code rebalancing, not server rules. Remove the gulag/prison station/whatever so sec officers can't space bodies easily and it'll be fine. Right now if sec catches you a traitor officer won't release you, you can't accuse them of framing you, etc. Too much trust for them

And antag Captains?

Biggest problem was that they could subvert the AI with no effort. Maybe make law changes require two ID swipes like red alert or whatever. Maybe make the captain spawn with no telecrystals. It allowed a ton of fun gimmicks though.

Have you forgiven me yet for the Syndicake test?

Sure why not

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:30 pm

Sometinyprick wrote:I like the ideas about resolving stuff IC and admins focusing on trying to resolve disputes instead of just banning people.

So if a security officer just found an assistant to be total shit would it just be cool for him to throw the guy outta an airlock?
Also Malkevin that isn't policy iirc
you don't need Captains approval and if you do that's just stupid

Define "total shit"

I'd still rather the HoS or captain sign off on executing a grey tider.

If some dickhead breaks into your kitchen and messes up your pots and pans and you're the chef I don't mind if they end up in the gibber though.

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:35 pm

An0n3 wrote:rather than address the problem, up and left. You included.

I left because my life fell apart completely unrelated to SS13.

"Compromise" is the important word. I think the rules need to be grey. It's a very careful balancing act. Every situation is different. Maybe /tg/station has grown too large for a "I'll know it when I see it" approach and I wouldn't work out as headmin.

I feel like we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater when we change so much code/so many rules in response to certain players/behaviors.

Also, like I said, if I'm a relic of times nobody wants again, they won't elect me. I really don't expect to win. A handful of old forum dwellers remember me, the hundreds of people on sybil have never heard of me.

fagboy420 wrote:kor you need to fucking stop

Lasty told me to do it I wasn't going to please send help

fagboy420 · Post by **fagboy420** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:49 pm #78391

what is your stance on erotic roleplay

captain sawrge · Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:51 pm

fagboy420 wrote:what is your stance on erotic roleplay

As a man very involved in the act of erotic roleplay, it personally pains me to see that ERP had been banned in my absence. I will be re-instating it, most likely as my first action as head admin. ERPers will receive full admin protection and those who try to interrupt it will be banned.

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:51 pm

fagboy420 wrote:what is your stance on erotic roleplay

Really fucking dumb thing to do in SS13 go take it to IRC you nerd.

That being said I miss doing wacky antics with ERPers like swapping their ckeys, rebuilding their dorm room in space/warping them to it, bursting through the wall as KOOL AID MAN the hulk etc so I wouldn't mind it being back if I was allowed to fuck with them again.

danno · Post by **danno** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:53 pm #78397

holy shit you're a genius

fagboy420 · Post by **fagboy420** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:53 pm #78399

voted

fagboy420 · Post by **fagboy420** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:58 pm #78402

oh yeah kor i remember that shit maaaaan funny as hell dude go back to the good ol days like in this good ol memory of mine

Spoiler:

captain sawrge · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:00 am

Hello ladies and gents, I will be assuming the position of representative of Kor Phaeron during the campaign as his newly Christened campaign manager.
My card:

NSFW:

Please direct all questions and concern to me. You can reach me via skype at kimiza_avro or via steam at http://steamcommunity.com/id/sawrge.

OliveOil · Post by **OliveOil** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:15 am #78412

Kor wrote:
danno wrote:Who did you get deadminned?

I like that thing about the megacarp, I'd like to see more stuff dealt with in that way by admins.
PADOI
PADOI again
PADOI for a third time
Conot
Failcakes
Wintermote
Threadstrong
Parket

[/quote]

Just for dedminning PADOI you have my vote!!

Akkryls · Post by **Akkryls** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:18 am #78413

Kor wrote:
fagboy420 wrote:what is your stance on erotic roleplay
Really fucking dumb thing to do in SS13 go take it to IRC you nerd.

That being said I miss doing wacky antics with ERPers like swapping their ckeys, rebuilding their dorm room in space/warping them to it, bursting through the wall as KOOL AID MAN the hulk etc so I wouldn't mind it being back if I was allowed to fuck with them again.

See, I never understood why ERP went from thing that essentially opens you up to massive admin aboose, to thing which admins aren't allowed to touch, to BANNED.

Actually on topic, Kor was pretty damn cool back in the day, and I know we lost a part of /tg/ when you left; I think you're probably the best out of the current candidates if you're willing to put up with us again.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:50 am #78463

kor is no doubt the only actually good candidate besides myself of course
vote for kor though not me

EndgamerAzari · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:07 am

Just went back and read the second post. Very eloquently put. I hadn't really thought of it like that before.

Also, this

Kor wrote:The other major flaw in this game is that I would not run a game of DnD with 90 people who hated eachother.

made me laugh like an idiot

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:21 am #78488

Kor wrote: SS13 is a game with many contradictory elements, but at the heart of all of them is conflict. We should make that conflict more fun for more people with respawns and the like, not seek to limit said conflicts.

this is what i've always said
it's so important that people start to understand this, i'm getting pretty tired of people suggesting and wanting things for the explicit reason to limit conflict
the game is about chaotic interactions between a group of people, resulting in mayhem. it's about the stories you derive from those interactions along the way.

i don't want to end up going "yeah basically just read kor's thread and that's what i want" but you say these things so well

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:57 am #78492

An0n3 wrote:I have to say the whole "hands off everybody let the server run itself everything is IC" attitude is one of the major reasons a lot of the good old crowd eventually left.

I started playing /tg/station back when mechs were just getting implemented under a byond key I forgot the password to a long time ago (CocaineRhinocerous). I can honestly say that that is the exact opposite reason the good old crowd left.

Kor, what's your policy on adminhelping? As in, what's the most minor offense you think requires an adminhelp, or what's the most major thing that should be resolved IC and not with admin intervention?

Giacom · Post by **Giacom** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:50 pm #78569

Hey Kor, good to see you again. I don't play or code anymore but you do make several good points, especially with statements about game design and code changes.

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:17 pm #78578

Honestly I think Kor being back is a healthy thing for the game. It's always important for people to look behind them, and Kor being gone for how long he was is almost like a time capsule opening up and him coming out. I think Kor deserves to be on the admin team a lot more than anyone else. He was always a good admin, understands what the game is about and has always been about, and is a great coder. He's got a lot of knowledge as an admin, coder, and a player, and I think he's the best choice for headmin.

Higgin · Post by **Higgin** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:02 pm #78630

kor for headmin

Doritos · Post by **Doritos** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:07 pm #78633

The only person running that should actually be a headmin. Should of happened earlier tbh. (but you said you declined headmin so eh.)

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:29 pm #78753

What will you do to purge the memetards from Sybil?

Rei1226 · Post by **Rei1226** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:41 pm #78756

Hello, /vg/ admin here. My personal vote goes for Kor. I remember a long time ago he played a few times on our server and was a chill dude and was pleasant to have a discussion with. I think he's got the right attitude to change TG around and make it

Spoiler:

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:42 pm #78775

Rei1226 wrote:I think he's got the right attitude to change TG around and make it /tg/station once again

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:47 pm #78777

so do you think you're going to work things out with ikkarus and hornygranny once the three of you are voted in

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:49 pm #78779

HG resigned tho
i guess that was an issue with SoS though so maybe hell come back

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:50 pm #78780

I was gonna say Kor's probably my favorite candidate but that's not really saying enough. It's not that Kor's my favorite candidate. It's not even that he's the best candidate. It's that he is the only candidate.

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:52 pm #78782

c-cough

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:55 pm #78783

voting for anyone that isnt kor is the same as saying "i openly admit to eating shit and enjoying it, please shovel some more down my throat"
including myself

onleavedontatme · Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:53 am

Maccus wrote: Kor, what's your policy on adminhelping? As in, what's the most minor offense you think requires an adminhelp, or what's the most major thing that should be resolved IC and not with admin intervention?

My personal policy is that I never adminhelp unless I'm suffering from FEATURES. I practice what I preach in regards to solving things IC and just rolling with what the game throws at you. Obviously that'd be a terrible policy for actually running the server, but I encourage everyone to take it upon themselves to just chill the fuck out and choke down the anger and play the next round.

Ideally I'd like admins to not get involved short of people being killed/permabrigged/having their entire workplace destroyed, but if a certain player does nothing but make people miserable by doing "minor" stuff like stealing their shit every round that becomes a problem as well.

And anytime something interesting happens and we even briefly let it go (atmosia, gun cargo, you can kill person for doing X) you'll have a group of players who do it every damn round to exploit it.

Like I said, my adminning ideal of "mostly hands off" might be impossible. It's vulnerable to being exploited if you draw a hard line and it will lead to arbitrary and inconsistent adminning without a hard line.

As to concrete rules changes though I'd say

AIs don't have to deal with server rules, they go back to following their lawsets. A purged AI is free to do whatever the hell it wants, the person who purges it is at fault if it plasmafloods

Greytiders can be dealt with like revs

Really though I think it's more down to player attitude more than anything, and code as well. People right now seem to have a very entitled feeling about how their round should go. It's not so much that people dislike grief, but that they want to be the only ones griefing, and meta punish people who stop them/outgrief them. They'll also complain about powergaming if they die as an antag, accuse security of not powergaming enough if an antag kills them, etc. Players seem very upset about anything not going their way 100% of the time. Hell I got an admin PM because I was a sec borg who beat a (non antag) lizard to death when they built a space tunnel out of perma/got two officers killed.

As to code, I think there'd be less grief if there was more for the crew to do. More engagement with the round type, more civillian objectives, etc. Obviously I can't promise this, I can only try to work with coderbus on it.

tl;dr the intent and creativity of the actions matters, but generally things short of death you're capable of calling security for. I'm sorry I don't have a more solid answer.

onleavedontatme · Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:00 am

danno wrote:so do you think you're going to work things out with ikkarus and hornygranny once the three of you are voted in

I like them and they at least tolerate me enough to talk to me on steam so I think we'll get along fine.

Malkevin wrote:What will you do to purge the memetards from Sybil?

Kill them with my HF blade

Giacom wrote:Hey Kor, good to see you again. I don't play or code anymore but you do make several good points, especially with statements about game design and code changes.

Thanks. I wanted to post that rant more than anything else. I don't know how much of this I could even change as headmin, they don't seem to have much authority. I'm sorry I argued with you so much before I left.

Which reminds me

I will be one of three head admins with no authority to deadmin, no authority over the codebase etc. I can try working with people, but I'm not going to be in control of the rules, the code, or most importantly the player attitude. I won't be able to usher some mythical golden age all on my own. Please have realistic expectations about this, I'm afraid everyone is going to be disappointed at this rate.

onleavedontatme · Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:08 am

danno wrote: but you say these things so well

Give war a chance!

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:01 am #78823

Kor wrote:UPDATE: I will be one of three head admins with no authority to deadmin, no authority over the codebase etc. I can try working with people, but I'm not going to be in control of the rules, the code, or most importantly the player attitude. I won't be able to usher some mythical golden age all on my own. Please have realistic expectations about this, I'm afraid everyone is going to be disappointed at this rate.

Deciding and determining rules is the headmin's biggest responsibility.
You'll have to work with whoever else gets elected of course.

Headmins have never had authority over the codebase/coderbus. Nor have they been able to snap their fingers and decide how player's should interpret or feel about things.

You will not have the ability to snap your fingers and say "fire that guy!". If you've got some argument that a person isn't doing what they're supposed to do we'll talk about it. If you have evidence of them abusing their admin abilities it'll be a reeeeally short discussion.

You haven't played here in years, let alone adminned. You don't know what you're getting into and complaining that you wont have the ability to immediately decide who stays and who goes is really selfish of you. The people you're remiss that you wont have ultimate authority over are the same people who are going to be teaching you how to do your own job again.

onleavedontatme · Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:03 am

An0n3 wrote:
Kor wrote:UPDATE: I will be one of three head admins with no authority to deadmin, no authority over the codebase etc. I can try working with people, but I'm not going to be in control of the rules, the code, or most importantly the player attitude. I won't be able to usher some mythical golden age all on my own. Please have realistic expectations about this, I'm afraid everyone is going to be disappointed at this rate.
Deciding and determining rules is the headmin's biggest responsibility.
You'll have to work with whoever else gets elected of course.

Headmins have never had authority over the codebase/coderbus. Nor have they been able to snap their fingers and decide how player's should interpret or feel about things.

You will not have the ability to snap your fingers and say "fire that guy!". If you've got some argument that a person isn't doing what they're supposed to do we'll talk about it. If you have evidence of them abusing their admin abilities it'll be a reeeeally short discussion.

You haven't played here in years, let alone adminned. You don't know what you're getting into and complaining that you wont have the ability to immediately decide who stays and who goes is really selfish of you. The people you're remiss that you wont have ultimate authority over are the same people who are going to be teaching you how to do your own job again.

I'm not complaining. I'm telling people how it is since they all seem to think I'll be able to do that. I don't want them to think I'll magically change the whole server. I know I won't. I don't want to do it alone, I don't have the energy to fight a one man war against everyone else to enforce some vision I have. If people want to work with me on that vision, great, but I know I can't do it solo.

And yes, by "not make the rules" I mean I'm only 1/3 of the team. I'm sorry if you read hostility in my statement, there wasn't meant to be. Only highlighting the reality that I'm not a magic portal back to 2012

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:18 am #78825

I apologize for taking it harshly, I'm just sick of hearing candidates lament the things they think they wont be able to do instead of talking about the things they want to do or plan to do.

The candidates who will say what they would like to do and the direction they'd like to take the server in all espouse similar notions of making things more relaxed, more fun, more hands off. The odds are pretty good that whoever actually wins this mess will be partnered up with two other people who have similar positive attitudes about that.

You'll have authority over admins in that you'll change the rules they enforce, set the rules-of-engagement, set the pace. I have to constantly reiterate that you wont be able to walk into the room and start tossing admins out the airlock because there are people trying to run on the "kill everyone" platform.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:13 pm #79333

mfw kor probably wont win despite being the only non-joke candidate