[MRP] Is Enemy of the Corporation too harsh?

[MothNyan]

I wanted to open this policy thread to start up a discussion over "EoTC" and if it's place in space law is currently too harsh or not.

It's currently listed under Grand Felonies, "Crimes that can result in permanent incarceration, exile, or parole after serving a timed/labor camp sentence and being fitted with tracking, anti-teleportation, or chemical implants. Criminals can be sentenced to execution if they have established themselves to be uncontainable by available means."
https://wiki.tgstation13.org/Space_Law

I talked a little with Jeff Gaiman/JupiterJaeden who worked with TBM when this was set in place, Jeff's reasoning is that he doesn't like it when antags don't even try to hide that they're a traitor, feeling it an antithesis towards roleplay and creating paranoia and uncertainty. (He said he's not set on it staying this way either)
If you watch Jeff play as HoS, he also only really permabrigs someone for EoTC in cases where there's so much chaos that he can't really deal with the antagonist coming back again later on.

But I've also witnessed HoS's or security officers permabrig people for EoTC on chill shifts, which I feel is against the idea of a "catch and release" style of play.

Many people on Manuel in particular prefer lower threat shifts, and since we've been doing away with many antagonists that end the round early, I think it's vital to give antagonists more breathing room to run around and cause chaos, which would benefit medical and security especially, and add room for pulling off more interesting stories or gimmicks.

My personal opinion is that we're still struggling to adapt to the after effects of having dynamic be so high for so long, it's hard to let a traitor go because of the fear that everything will quickly degrade into shit. (People also tend to pin the blame on security if they do let an antag go free and then they get hurt by the antagonist...)

All in all, I would like to see more "catch and release" style play on Manuel.

[Kuricityy]

i personally only perma for murder or if they’ve attempt to attack or kill a crew, otherwise it’s usually just tracker and release. gotta leave some fun for yourself, yknow? but regardless i think it should only be a normal felony.

[MatrixOne]

EOTC charge is pointless right now, because you need proof to charge someone with it, and that proof lies in ANOTHER charge (like grand theft, possession of syndicate or heretic contraband, attempted murders, etc). To stick the EOTC charge onto someone, they would have had to have done a crime that's already tied to a massive brig sentence or perma. And you can't "stack" charges, so I've never seen it really do anything, and it often seems to spark an angry argument about "why did you charge me with this?." IC it's a far more obvious charge to tie someone's sentence to what they actually did, versus what they OOCly are. As for lore, Nanotrasen arresting people for being enemies of the corp makes sense, though. Lorewise it has a reason to exist.

So the question becomes, is it good for the game? If I had to choose, I'd say I'd prefer people to serve sentences for what they were caught doing in the shift. If that charge is not enough for a permabrig, and they're caught doing it again, you're allowed to upgrade the charge to perma then. So being caught with some heretic items wouldnt' warrant a perma immediately for EOTC charge (but you could still perma for murder, or attempted murder).

Better sec players who understand the flow of the game tend to know that RRing or permaing antags is not always for the betterment of the round, and sometimes they should be allowed to escape and get back into the game even if the charge you COULD give them was high. But a lot of sec players don't play that way, and it seems worth it to bring the space law more in line with what we'd like to see in gameplay.

[Thranos]

People used to straight up execute over EoTC, regardless of type.
There was a ruling eventually that EoTC in and of itself isn't valid for execution (unless uncontainable IE ling (and later, heretic, unfortunately)). It's a lot better than it used to be, but it's still a sort of soft-RR a majority of the time.

If you catch a traitor who's not really done anything or fought back, take their uplink (if it's open) and implant them, let them go, so on. Maybe they'll manage to get a new uplink, maybe not.
If you catch a traitor who's been blowing shit up all over, send them to GITMO.
You'd think this would be a fairly obvious distinction given the stressing of "punish them according to their crimes" but it's sadly not really done unless certain people are HoS/Warden.

[TheLoLSwat]

Antagonists should always have a fear of the station in the back of their minds, as they are an enemy of the corporation. This would be an IC culture change primarily and should be encouraged by playing a lot of security/HOS and being the change you want to see and not be hardwritten into policy (yes yes i know space law isn't policy or whatever but still).