[NoxVS] tostah - my second amendment rights

tostah · Post by **tostah** » Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:54 am #777418

BYOND account: tostah

Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note): server ban

Ban/note duration: 1 day
Ban/note reason:

Time ban was placed: 2025-04-29 02:10:58
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 251695

Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
(x) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
() - The ban/note is not against the rules
(x) - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?: I was not going to make this appeal, but the admin who banned me convinced me to. Please help me bring an end to their tyrannical reign.

Ill admit it. Sometimes, I just want to strap on my grey jumpsuit and do some classic tiding. After a very long shift of doing my job as a roboticist and NOT being a tider, I dove into the durand that I made, equipped with a laser canon and tesla canon, and made my way to the escape shuttle as it was about to leave. I just want to have some fun, so I tide into the cockpit, breaking down the glass and NOT spacing the shuttle. I didn't have any intentions of doing anything, just wanted to walk into the cockpit of the shuttle for no good reason. If i'm honest, its because I wasn't allowed there and I was feeling unstoppable in a mech. I shout the call of my people 'GREYTIDE WORLDWIDE' and begin tiding. The HOP whips out his energy rifle and takes shots at me from inside the bridge, and a couple of security officers start banging on the mech as soon as I start breaking down the glass.

Now, im faced with a couple choices here. I could probably take a couple of them with me if I go into melee range and start beating the shit out of them, or... I could just not do that and run away. I take a shot with my lethal cannon, before deciding thats not a good idea, and switch to the tesla, which is mainly a stun weapon, stunning a few as I break through the glass that leads to space because I have nowhere else to go. I break out of the shuttle, and make my way to the back of the ship, begging those around me not to kill me because I was just tiding and I didn't want to hurt anyone. My mech then gets destroyed by some magical EMP monster. Moments later, i'm robusted by a man that I had helped earlier that shift. I gave him some implants and implanted them earlier, and then he used those same implants to throw me out of the shuttle. I died.

Now, I was trying to be funny. Saying 'its time for meta salt' in a joking manner. or atleast in a way i thought was funny. The guy who killed me (probably) knew that i helped him earlier so i would hope he would find the messages humorous. I'm not actually adding this dude to a list of people that have ever wronged me that I keep stapled to the wall next to my setup. He didn't wrong me enough to make that list.

I understand how my actions do break the rules relating to unwarranted tiding. I also understand that this was the MRP server, which has higher standards, and I understand how my actions could be seen as LRP, or even NRP. However, I want to point out that nobody else had attempted to engage with me in a way that wasn't "Beat the shit out of it". I was tiding, but just because I was tiding doesn't mean I had no intentions of RP. I really just wanted to sit in the bridge and chill in my cool mech.

Post by **NoxVS** » Tue Apr 29, 2025 4:59 am #777423

tostah wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:54 am I was not going to make this appeal, but the admin who banned me convinced me to. Please help me bring an end to their tyrannical reign.

I shall rule for a thousand lifetimes, and the masses shall know no peace while I still draw breath

tostah wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:54 am Ill admit it. Sometimes, I just want to strap on my grey jumpsuit and do some classic tiding. After a very long shift of doing my job as a roboticist and NOT being a tider, I dove into the durand that I made, equipped with a laser canon and tesla canon, and made my way to the escape shuttle as it was about to leave. I just want to have some fun, so I tide into the cockpit, breaking down the glass and NOT spacing the shuttle. I didn't have any intentions of doing anything, just wanted to walk into the cockpit of the shuttle for no good reason. If i'm honest, its because I wasn't allowed there and I was feeling unstoppable in a mech. I shout the call of my people 'GREYTIDE WORLDWIDE' and begin tiding. The HOP whips out his energy rifle and takes shots at me from inside the bridge, and a couple of security officers start banging on the mech as soon as I start breaking down the glass.

Ignoring the whole no reason "I'm bored" tiding, the problem is the crew doesn't know any of this. You just want to sit in the cockpit but for all they know you're an antagonist bashing the window down so you can walk in and kill everyone inside. Even if you're saying that's all you want there's nothing stopping an antagonist from saying they just want to chill in the cockpit just to gun everyone down once they're inside. If a nonantagonist is allowed to retaliate lethally for a problem they started then the crew has no choice but to leave everyone in a similar situation alone out of fear of being baited in a "self defense" death. And actual antagonists are able to hide behind that ruling by pretending to be nonantagonists just goofing around up until the moment they finally pull the trigger and start killing.

tostah wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:54 am Now, im faced with a couple choices here. I could probably take a couple of them with me if I go into melee range and start beating the shit out of them, or... I could just not do that and run away. I take a shot with my lethal cannon, before deciding thats not a good idea, and switch to the tesla, which is mainly a stun weapon, stunning a few as I break through the glass that leads to space because I have nowhere else to go. I break out of the shuttle, and make my way to the back of the ship, begging those around me not to kill me because I was just tiding and I didn't want to hurt anyone. My mech then gets destroyed by some magical EMP monster. Moments later, i'm robusted by a man that I had helped earlier that shift. I gave him some implants and implanted them earlier, and then he used those same implants to throw me out of the shuttle. I died.

I think what I would've preferred is you just back off entirely without using weapons. If they break the mech, they break the mech. That's just sort of the consequence of using it to commit crimes. AFAIK I'm not even sure the tesla is a nonlethal weapon at all, as far as I'm aware it just shocks a bunch of people. Even then, you used the actual lethal cannon a lot more than you think you did.

All logs involving you or the durand from the time you start breaking into the cockpit to your death

► Show Spoiler

tostah wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:54 am Now, I was trying to be funny. Saying 'its time for meta salt' in a joking manner. or atleast in a way i thought was funny. The guy who killed me (probably) knew that i helped him earlier so i would hope he would find the messages humorous. I'm not actually adding this dude to a list of people that have ever wronged me that I keep stapled to the wall next to my setup. He didn't wrong me enough to make that list.

We really have no way to tell the intended tone of a message to determine if it's actually a joke or just backtracking and saying it's a joke after the fact. The intent of this part of the note was just to document that you said that so that it's there as proof should you ever end up acting on it (Which, I'm just now realizing, is sort of worthless if I don't actually say who the threatened party is). At the bare minimum I'm thinking about separating that off from the note to stand alone as its own note, but I'm also considering outright dropping it or even just throwing an expiration on it so as long as nothing happens it'll be gone soon.

tostah wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:54 am However, I want to point out that nobody else had attempted to engage with me in a way that wasn't "Beat the shit out of it". I was tiding, but just because I was tiding doesn't mean I had no intentions of RP. I really just wanted to sit in the bridge and chill in my cool mech.

It sort of seems like you forced them into a situation where that's all they could do. It feels absurd to me for someone to see a mech breaking through the shuttle while shouting about tiding and their expected response to be something like "Salutations my good sir, would you kindly cease your belligerent behavior? I would greatly appreciate it if you could swiftly depart from your mechanized warform so that we may discuss this matter like proper gentlemen." The goal of MRP is to encourage people to play interesting and cohesive characters in the hopes that it results in fun interactions, and a cohesive response to a mech breaking into the cockpit is "HOLY SHIT A MECH IS BREAKING INTO THE COCKPIT, OPEN FIRE!" If all you're bringing to the table is "GREYTIDE WORLDWIDE!" and "IM JUST TIDING" then I can't really expect everyone else to contribute a response that's to a much higher standard.

tostah · Post by **tostah** » Tue Apr 29, 2025 5:11 am #777426

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 4:59 am Ignoring the whole no reason "I'm bored" tiding, the problem is the crew doesn't know any of this. You just want to sit in the cockpit but for all they know you're an antagonist bashing the window down so you can walk in and kill everyone inside. Even if you're saying that's all you want there's nothing stopping an antagonist from saying they just want to chill in the cockpit just to gun everyone down once they're inside. If a nonantagonist is allowed to retaliate lethally for a problem they started then the crew has no choice but to leave everyone in a similar situation alone out of fear of being baited in a "self defense" death. And actual antagonists are able to hide behind that ruling by pretending to be nonantagonists just goofing around up until the moment they finally pull the trigger and start killing.

Regardless if weather or not its a non antagonist or an antagonist doing it, if you're trying to stop a combat mech (or anything, for that matter) through violent means, its entirely reasonable to expect the subject to respond violently as well.

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 4:59 am
It sort of seems like you forced them into a situation where that's all they could do. It feels absurd to me for someone to see a mech breaking through the shuttle while shouting about tiding and their expected response to be something like "Salutations my good sir, would you kindly cease your belligerent behavior? I would greatly appreciate it if you could swiftly depart from your mechanized warform so that we may discuss this matter like proper gentlemen." The goal of MRP is to encourage people to play interesting and cohesive characters in the hopes that it results in fun interactions, and a cohesive response to a mech breaking into the cockpit is "HOLY SHIT A MECH IS BREAKING INTO THE COCKPIT, OPEN FIRE!" If all you're bringing to the table is "GREYTIDE WORLDWIDE!" and "IM JUST TIDING" then I can't really expect everyone else to contribute a response that's to a much higher standard.

Sure walking up to an actively shooting combat mech and trying to talk to it is a bit unreasonable. But it is reasonable to expect some form of engagement when not actively fighting. Oh no i'm breaking into the bridge. Big deal. Like really, whats the big deal about that? Whys everyone so uppidy about BNE? Why is it such a big deal for a mech to stand in the bridge anyway? What can a mech accomplish on the bridge that they cant anywhere else? Probably just hijacking, but you gotta leave the mech for that. Ultimately the mech got killed and I got killed and realistically, that should have just been the end of it.

Post by **NoxVS** » Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:02 am #777427

tostah wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 5:11 am Regardless if weather or not its a non antagonist or an antagonist doing it, if you're trying to stop a combat mech (or anything, for that matter) through violent means, its entirely reasonable to expect the subject to respond violently as well.

Overall you aren't allowed to do stuff that you know will result in retaliation just to use that as an excuse to fight back out of “self defense”. Especially if you’re using a method that cuts down on the ways someone can deal with you. The only way to handle a mech is to destroy it or ask the pilot politely to stop. Considering you were smashing stuff and yelling about greytiding, I can hardly fault them for taking the first option.

tostah wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 5:11 am Sure walking up to an actively shooting combat mech and trying to talk to it is a bit unreasonable. But it is reasonable to expect some form of engagement when not actively fighting. Oh no i'm breaking into the bridge. Big deal. Like really, whats the big deal about that? Whys everyone so uppidy about BNE? Why is it such a big deal for a mech to stand in the bridge anyway? What can a mech accomplish on the bridge that they cant anywhere else? Probably just hijacking, but you gotta leave the mech for that. Ultimately the mech got killed and I got killed and realistically, that should have just been the end of it.

I think it is a big deal. In my opinion you’re focusing way too much on purely mechanical aspects if the only reason why you think the cockpit should be off limits is to prevent a hijacking. It’s the shuttle cockpit, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for it to be treated like an actual cockpit. This isn’t some Among Us lobby where the sole goal of the game is to complete all your tasks and every attempt to do an action that doesn’t have any mechanical benefit is nothing but a waste. I don’t think that the whole mindset of “oh it’s just a game it doesn’t matter” is beneficial to the server, especially when you have a mech so if they disagree they can either ignore you entirely or you get to shoot them when they try to stop you.

And genuinely, what kind of engagement are you expecting? You’re performing an action you should clearly know people don’t want carried out. What is there to say to you that you don’t already know and are ignoring?

tostah · Post by **tostah** » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:33 pm #777446

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:02 am I think it is a big deal. In my opinion you’re focusing way too much on purely mechanical aspects if the only reason why you think the cockpit should be off limits is to prevent a hijacking. It’s the shuttle cockpit, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for it to be treated like an actual cockpit. This isn’t some Among Us lobby where the sole goal of the game is to complete all your tasks and every attempt to do an action that doesn’t have any mechanical benefit is nothing but a waste. I don’t think that the whole mindset of “oh it’s just a game it doesn’t matter” is beneficial to the server, especially when you have a mech so if they disagree they can either ignore you entirely or you get to shoot them when they try to stop you.

Its not about 'its just a game so it doesn't matter'. Its more of, 'Why does this matter at all?' There isn't a reason beyond 'HEY YOU ARENT ALLOWED TO DO THAT!!!'. You are not obligated to care. If you decide to care, then any actions you take put yourself in harms way. You have no skin in the game if the mech sits in the cockpit. And honestly, its unreasonable to jump to the assumption that the mech in question is hostile, or will perform some kind of hostile action in the future just because its tiding.

Post by **NoxVS** » Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:30 pm #777450

As I’ve mentioned before, I think that mindset is toxic as fuck and the server as a whole is worse off for it. Saying that mechanically speaking it doesn’t matter (which is also just objectively false, it makes complete sense that command wants the cockpit secure for a variety of reasons such as not wanting a hole that allows anyone to waltz in and attack them) so no one should care and if they commit the grave sin of not being apathetic enough to just ignore you and let you do what you want then you’ll just beat the apathy into them because you have a mech and they don’t. It is a mindset I’ve personally witnessed repeatedly harm the server, whether over the course of a single round or occurring enough times without being contested that several players have just given up entirely. Widespread apathy can kill a server.

If your playstyle involves you looking at the players invested in the game and telling them “stop caring or else” then I recommend you either find a different playstyle or find a different server.

This appeal is denied. As always, you’re free to request a headmin review.

tostah · Post by **tostah** » Wed Apr 30, 2025 3:56 am #777474

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:30 pm As I’ve mentioned before, I think that mindset is toxic as fuck and the server as a whole is worse off for it. Saying that mechanically speaking it doesn’t matter (which is also just objectively false, it makes complete sense that command wants the cockpit secure for a variety of reasons such as not wanting a hole that allows anyone to waltz in and attack them) so no one should care and if they commit the grave sin of not being apathetic enough to just ignore you and let you do what you want then you’ll just beat the apathy into them because you have a mech and they don’t. It is a mindset I’ve personally witnessed repeatedly harm the server, whether over the course of a single round or occurring enough times without being contested that several players have just given up entirely. Widespread apathy can kill a server.

If your playstyle involves you looking at the players invested in the game and telling them “stop caring or else” then I recommend you either find a different playstyle or find a different server.

This appeal is denied. As always, you’re free to request a headmin review.

I thought the entire point of making an appeal would be for a headmin review. Anyway the ban has expired and everyone involved (and those who would need to be involved) have better things to do. Ill just take this as is and try not to repeat in the future

Post by **NoxVS** » Wed Apr 30, 2025 10:11 pm #777499

The main points of an appeal are to:

Make sure admins aren't going against what is expected of them
Provide players with an opportunity to speak with the banning admin and hopefully reach an understanding
Provide players with an opportunity to appeal to headmins for a review of the decision

The first point is handled by headmins glancing over things and keeping an eye on general sentiments to make sure things are going smoothly. They can choose to intervene on their own but usually that won't happen.
The second point was the whole conversation between us. Sometimes it results in me realizing I made a mistake in how I ruled and going back on my decision, whether fully or partially. Sometimes it results in you realizing you made a mistake in how you played and accepting the ruling.
The third point is invoked by you outright requesting a headmin review, at which point this appeal will sort of wait for them to get to it and come to a decision on. It doesn't even have to be an urgent thing, you can really just ask for a review and wait for them to look at the arguments given and come to a decision. If you don't explicitly ask for it and my ruling isn't some divergence from the norm then they tend to just consider the issue resolved.

I ended up just outright dropping the whole metagrudge portion, didn't feel worth it to include it as like a separate note or anything. If you still take issue with the other stuff just request a headmin review.

/tg/Station 13

[NoxVS] tostah - my second amendment rights

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