[Sothanforax] - dayban for pursuing an antagonist, accused of lying (?)

[Metek]

BYOND account: Bisar

Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note):
Server Ban

Ban/note duration: 1 day
Ban/note reason:
Time ban was placed: 2025-04-17 02:12:44
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 251297

Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
(x) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(x) - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:

I appear to be operating off a different perspective on what happened in this situation than Sothanforax, so if events transpired out of my sight in a different way then I think it's an exceptional leap to accuse me of "lying" when I report why I responded the way I did.

Events as I understood them:

I had been dicking around all round as a psychologist after accidentally not readying up for roundstart and not getting to land an assistant slot. I baited a bunch of people into biblegibbing themselves by appealing to their pride/ego which, as a nonantagonist, I will completely own as toeing the line of self-antagging, even if I didn't do anything but tempt people to kill themselves.

Besides that; there was a dragon. I was in science at the time because I had an ID from one of the people who had killed themselves, gotten revived, then they went around begging for death and attempting suicide again, so I had a Roboticist ID available. Anyway, the dragon had attacked science while I was around there and I got burned during all of it so I went back to med to patch myself up. I was in the supply room when I saw from an oblique angle what was a miner ( Rick 'Ratman' Jones) and what looked to be a doctor brawling. I was on the edge of crit so I didn't immediately jump in, and I continued healing myself. After a moment, I did eventually join the melee.

Rick had a healing holoparasite juicing him up the entire fight and the borgs were trying to pull him away as well. It occurred to me that if he was ballsy enough to attack medbay like this once he'd probably do it again, but even if he didn't, attacking medbay is mustache twirling villainy in the sense you're directly interfering with anyone else being healed or revived if they get hurt. I also liked my coworkers. So I took this personally. As a psychologist I had fuckall to do otherwise, so when his holoparasite helped him slip into maintenance, I followed after with my drill, which wasn't doing much of jack shit against his super juiced miner gear, but I was hoping I could score a wound on the chance that the infinite holoparasite healing wouldn't be able to stem the bloodloss, and he'd be at a later disadvantage. I'm not gonna say I didn't intend to kill him, but to me it seemed very unlikely. I dogged him for, I think, ~2 minutes before one of the medical borgs helped him escape. I wandered back to science and made a chainsaw, then walked back to cargo.

I *was* hoping he would pass by so I could beat his ass for trying to step to medbay gang, but I wasn't gonna be a dick to the cargonians and bust the door down, so I milled around outside with the chainsaw until one of them took enough of an interest to ask why I was hanging around outside cargo with a chainsaw. I explained the situation -- that Rick had attacked medbay with his holoparasite, and I was interested in dismembering him. The cargo tech I spoke too took this in stride but didn't seem interested in letting me inside, so I went back to med to idle until the shuttle arrived. Sothan had bwoinked me, I think, after I was about half-way back to medbay from this cargo interaction.

Anyway we had a back and forth where I felt my escalation was reasonable, and that I had contributed in an interesting -- if surreal -- interaction with the cargo tech by candidly expressing my wish to lay bloody revenge on Rick. Eventually, when I summarized events from my point of view, Sothan abruptly ended the conversation by saying that I wasn't getting the point of pursuing a wounded antag as, I think, overescalation (even if I have a reason to want them dead(?)) and accused me of lying about attacking them first(??). It's at this point that I'm wondering if maybe it was the medbay staff that jumped the spy miner with a holoparasite first, instead of the other way around? Why was I accused of lying and abruptly banned? What did I miss here?

I had requested the server logs but you can figure how that went. I don't think I should have been banned. I don't think I did anything wrong. I had a legitimate in-character reason to want to fuck Rick up ugly, and I'm completely in the dark about why I'm being accused of lying.

[Timberpoes]

Since Sothanforax was under admin training during this ticket, you may end up with questions from either them or their trainer (dataxpunged) or both.

Data mentioned your ban reason was amended shortly after it was placed as the trainer/trainee combo weren't happy with the initial wording. This amendment was done about 17 minutes after your ban was placed, or about 7 minutes before you posted the appeal.

As of the time of your appeal, your ban reason is now:

Banned from the server for 1 day - Validhunting: 4. Non-security may only actively hunt global or round-ending threats. Chased down an antagonist that had attacked a Medical Doctor as a Psychologist with a drill down nearby maintenance.

If discussion with the banning admin(s) doesn't prove fruitful, logs can be obtained if they would assist the appeal; however we currently have to parse out IP addresses and other identifying information by hand as we don't have an automatic public log system back implemented yet.

[Metek]

Rule 4 Precedents
Actively hunting a threat involves seeking out or pursuing that threat outside the bounds of your normal reasonable play area. Players are not expected to ignore antagonists during the normal course of play and may engage with antagonists who are active within their sphere. (Examples: A medical doctor knowing the identity of an active traitor could attack that traitor if that traitor came armed into medbay, likewise an engineer could attack a traitor they spotted breaking into the engine room). Players choosing this route should not attempt to chase down or finish antagonists who retreat from these engagements (unless they have ... a personal reason to do so under other precedents)

The dead dog litmus test: Players may hunt specific threats or antagonists who have identifiably done something to wrong that particular player, the Ur-example being that players may seek revenge against those who harm their departmental pets. Players who choose this path are empowered to act as security in regard to that specific threat, but as per the main rule must also follow related restrictions on security play. This can also be applied to an assault of a character you've had significant interactions with, in the current round, and it does not apply to cross-round or OOC friendships.

If discussion with the banning admin(s) doesn't prove fruitful, logs can be obtained if they would assist the appeal; however we currently have to parse out IP addresses and other identifying information by hand as we don't have an automatic public log system back implemented yet.

I ran log scrubbing and sorting on ~1 month's worth of logs when I was a maint for WoD13; I understand that Mothblocks is working on a toolchain to automate the log scrubbing here so if she isn't able to assist I would be willing to share my technique.

[DATAxPUNGED]

The main reasoning behind the ban is that we thought that you going so far out of the way to kill Ratman jones was a case of Validhunting. the precedent 1 of RPR 4 reads:

Actively hunting a threat involves seeking out or pursuing that threat outside the bounds of your normal reasonable play area. Players are not expected to ignore antagonists during the normal course of play and may engage with antagonists who are active within their sphere. (Examples: A medical doctor knowing the identity of an active traitor could attack that traitor if that traitor came armed into medbay, likewise an engineer could attack a traitor they spotted breaking into the engine room). Players choosing this route should not attempt to chase down or finish antagonists who retreat from these engagements (unless they have reason to believe that the antagonist constitutes a global or round-ending threat or have a personal reason to do so under other precedents)

I've boldened the part that specifically talks about not chasing down antagonists that retreat from these engagements, which is what you tried to do.

Here are the logs of the fight you had with Ratman Jones (fight in parenthesis, because Ratman was in crit for all of it, living merely by their holopara dragging them away), starting from when they were beat up so hard in med by the Medbay hivemind™ that they had to retreat:

Code: Select all

[2025-04-17 01:41:41.687] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.127] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) screams! (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.137] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) entered hard crit thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -75.3)  (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.221] GAME: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) has teleported from (Cryogenics (82,111,2)) to (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:45.675] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) gasps! (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:51.953] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) lost consciousness thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -23.2)  (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:59.390] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek (Psychologist) (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -1.6)  (Library (80,117,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:00.882] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -9.6)  (Library (77,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:02.802] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked mimepride/(CHIKHAN) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 1e+31)  (Library (78,125,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:03.751] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -6.2)  (Library (78,127,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:04.598] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -18.4)  (Library (78,130,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:06.521] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked pbj567/(Clyde Rosensteel) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 58.6)  (Port Primary Hallway (76,135,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:08.447] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) pulled from mimepride/(CHIKHAN) with Fights-Them-All (NEWHP: 1e+31)  (Port Primary Hallway (68,133,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:10.337] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -16.9)  (Port Primary Hallway (73,134,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:11.283] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked bobdabuilder9001/(Fights-Them-All) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 85)  (Port Primary Hallway (76,134,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:12.472] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -19.7)  (Port Primary Hallway (74,134,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:16.099] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -28.4)  (Port Primary Hallway (77,133,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:17.573] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) entered hard crit thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -32.6)  (Port Primary Hallway (78,133,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:17.628] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -40.2)  (Port Primary Hallway (77,133,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:21.760] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) pulled from bobdabuilder9001/(Fights-Them-All) with CHIKHAN (NEWHP: 85)  (Port Primary Hallway (78,133,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:22.116] GAME: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) started riding Limewire V1.984-Rc.3.14159265359. (Port Primary Hallway (78,133,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:23.157] GAME-SAY: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) "He raided med." (Library (77,130,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:35.023] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -88.1)  (Port Maintenance (73,114,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:35.952] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -84.2)  (Port Maintenance (73,114,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:36.893] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked [blue air supply pipe] with the surgical drill (Port Maintenance (72,115,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:40.843] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) hit [grille] (Port Maintenance (53,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:41.590] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) gasps! (Port Maintenance (54,123,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:42.433] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with box of replacement lights (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -35.2)  (Port Maintenance (54,124,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:43.059] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) lost consciousness thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -25.3)  (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (54,128,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:46.578] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.3.14159265359) with box of replacement lights (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 100)  (Port Primary Hallway (59,135,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:48.900] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with box of replacement lights (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -1.4)  (Mining Shuttle (59,133,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:49.920] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with box of replacement lights (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 8.6)  (Port Primary Hallway (59,136,2))
[2025-04-17 01:43:04.958] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) gasps! (Space (48,94,2))
[2025-04-17 01:43:11.172] GAME: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) is no longer riding Limewire V1.984-Rc.3.14159265359. (Space Hut (45,93,2))
[2025-04-17 01:43:11.497] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) gasps! (Space Hut (45,93,2))
[2025-04-17 01:43:13.527] GAME: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) started riding Limewire V1.984-Rc.3.14159265359. (Space Hut (45,93,2))

Using the logs of every time you hit them, with a surgical drill or not, we can see that you went VEEEERY much out of your way to chase them (some of these paths are my best guesses based on the times where you hit them, but still):

Spoiler:

As such, I don't think the ban was misplaced at all, and I do not believe that "I also liked my coworkers" is enough of a reason to take chasing this guy down personally, honestly.

Regarding the ticket conduct, I do agree that Sothanforax was rather hasty and accusatory towards you on the ticket, and for that I apologize; I should've paid closer attention and intervened sooner rather than later. The accusation of lying came from you saying:

I wasn't tracking him down, I had followed him after he had attacked me and my coworkers. We fought throughout the halls and throughout maints. I had a legitimate reason to want to hurt him.

which was not the case, the first attack interaction between you two was indeed you attacking them. This still doesn't excuse straight up calling you a liar though; People misremember facts all the time, it's what we have logs for!

But in short, I do believe you were validhunting here, and although the ticket conduct was unfortunate (and again, sorry about that), it doesn't really change the fact that you broke the rules, so this appeal is denied. You may request a headmin review and they may overrule my decision or uphold it.

[Metek]

Am I able to access the logs as well or do I have to argue from the position of what is deigned to be presented? It doesn't feel like a strong position for me.

[NoxVS]

Am I able to access the logs as well or do I have to argue from the position of what is deigned to be presented? It doesn't feel like a strong position for me.

Admins have access to raw logs which have sensitive information, hence why only admins have access to them, and the publicly available parsed logs have been down for a while. If there’s some kind of logs you want you should be able to ask for specific things such as all game or attack logs involving X, Y, or Z. I don’t think we have a good way to filter all the sensitive stuff from logs beyond choosing a subset of them and making sure nothing leaked through.

[Metek]

Am I able to access the logs as well or do I have to argue from the position of what is deigned to be presented? It doesn't feel like a strong position for me.

Admins have access to raw logs which have sensitive information, hence why only admins have access to them, and the publicly available parsed logs have been down for a while. If there’s some kind of logs you want you should be able to ask for specific things such as all game or attack logs involving X, Y, or Z. I don’t think we have a good way to filter all the sensitive stuff from logs beyond choosing a subset of them and making sure nothing leaked through.

I'm attempting not to digress too much from the subject of the appeal but as I mentioned, I can create a regex that I can then also walk you through applying to the logs to automatically scrub them of sensitive information, until the workflow to do so automatically is implemented.

[DATAxPUNGED]

Here's all game and attack logs from the both of you, I believe I've scrubbed it cleanly enough.

[Metek]

The main reasoning behind the ban is that we thought that you going so far out of the way to kill Ratman jones was a case of Validhunting. the precedent 1 of RPR 4 reads:

Actively hunting a threat involves seeking out or pursuing that threat outside the bounds of your normal reasonable play area. Players are not expected to ignore antagonists during the normal course of play and may engage with antagonists who are active within their sphere. (Examples: A medical doctor knowing the identity of an active traitor could attack that traitor if that traitor came armed into medbay, likewise an engineer could attack a traitor they spotted breaking into the engine room). Players choosing this route should not attempt to chase down or finish antagonists who retreat from these engagements (unless they have reason to believe that the antagonist constitutes a global or round-ending threat or have a personal reason to do so under other precedents)

I've boldened the part that specifically talks about not chasing down antagonists that retreat from these engagements, which is what you tried to do.

Using the logs of every time you hit them, with a surgical drill or not, we can see that you went VEEEERY much out of your way to chase them (some of these paths are my best guesses based on the times where you hit them, but still):

Spoiler:

As such, I don't think the ban was misplaced at all, and I do not believe that "I also liked my coworkers" is enough of a reason to take chasing this guy down personally, honestly.

I wasn't tracking him down, I had followed him after he had attacked me and my coworkers. We fought throughout the halls and throughout maints. I had a legitimate reason to want to hurt him.

which was not the case, the first attack interaction between you two was indeed you attacking them. This still doesn't excuse straight up calling you a liar though; People misremember facts all the time, it's what we have logs for!

But in short, I do believe you were validhunting here

Before I proceed I do expressly request a headmin review of my appeal being denied.

Using the logs of every time you hit them, with a surgical drill or not, we can see that you went VEEEERY much out of your way to chase them (some of these paths are my best guesses based on the times where you hit them, but still):

Yes, as I said; they had staged a healing holoparasite mining gear jacked assault on my department and coworkers. I had no reason to know why they did it. I had no reason to believe they wouldn't return at the first opportunity (which they very much did, according to the logs, only calling it off when it became apparent the bounty was expiring):

Code: Select all

[2025-04-17 01:44:01.691] GAME-SAY: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) "cyborg." (Aft Port Maintenance (60,96,2))
[2025-04-17 01:44:08.607] GAME-SAY: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) "law two, help me kill th'lizard." (Aft Port Maintenance (60,96,2))

which was not the case, the first attack interaction between you two was indeed you attacking them[

The first logged attack interaction between the two of us was indeed me hitting him. The actual facts of the interaction was

Code: Select all

[2025-04-17 01:40:07.062] GAME-SAY: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) (guardian) "whatchya think, do we jus' run in slashin'?" (Medbay Central (94,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:45.423] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) clears his throat. (Medbay Treatment Center (83,103,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:48.482] GAME-SAY: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) "GIMME THAT LEG!!!" (Medbay Treatment Center (83,103,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:49.841] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) with cleaving saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 84.2)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,103,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:51.652] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked [��Medbay Treatment Center omni air scrubber oP3z8] with the cleaving saw (Medbay Treatment Center (80,99,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:56.434] GAME: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) Had an aiuri patch (burn) patch applied by Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek, containing the following reagents: Aiuri and Granibitaluri. (Medbay Storage (85,94,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:58.410] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked [full tile window] with the cleaving saw (Medbay Treatment Center (83,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:58.910] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked [cyan pipe] with the cleaving saw (Cryogenics (83,108,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:59.495] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked [full tile window] with the cleaving saw (Cryogenics (84,109,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:01.211] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) healed bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) with the regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 45.1)  (Medbay Storage (85,94,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:01.265] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked moomcheese/(Jack Wells) with cleaving saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91)  (Cryogenics (81,109,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:01.815] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) punched moomcheese/(Jack Wells) (NEWHP: 85.7)  (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:02.952] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) screams! (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:06.701] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved moomcheese/(Jack Wells) (NEWHP: 85.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (80,102,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:08.022] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved moomcheese/(Jack Wells) (NEWHP: 85.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (78,99,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:16.321] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) punched neuroplasty/(Pepper Cornell) (NEWHP: 84.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (78,100,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:17.694] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) entered soft crit thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -1.3)  (Medbay Treatment Center (78,100,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:20.213] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) healed bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) with the regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 69.5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,97,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:21.762] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Medbay Treatment Center (79,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:24.640] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) healed bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) with the regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 77.9)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,97,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:25.511] GAME-SAY: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) "Miner with a holopara rampaging in med for whatever reason." (Medbay Treatment Center (81,97,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:26.818] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) pulled from neuroplasty/(Pepper Cornell) with Apollo-Juniper (NEWHP: 76.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (80,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:27.469] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) regained consciousness thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: 3.5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,104,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:28.865] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) healed bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) with the regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 84.9)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,97,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.535] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 2.4999u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 2.4999u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 2.4977u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 2.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.535] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) injected themselves (/datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 2.4999u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 2.4999u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 2.4977u, 1 purity)) with syringe (Medbay Treatment Center (82,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.539] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) transferred reagents to thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite (0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine (0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine (0.832567u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 2.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.680] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject [footprints] with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 1.6666u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 1.6666u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 1.6651u, 1 purity) (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.829] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject [footprints] with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 1.6666u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 1.6666u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 1.6651u, 1 purity) (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.199] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 1.6666u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 1.6666u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 1.6651u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.199] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) injected themselves (/datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 1.6666u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 1.6666u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 1.6651u, 1 purity)) with syringe (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.202] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) transferred reagents to thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite (0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine (0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine (0.83255u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.468] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 0.8326u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 10)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.469] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) injected themselves (/datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 0.8326u, 1 purity)) with syringe (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.472] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) transferred reagents to thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite (0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine (0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine (0.8326u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 10)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.703] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject [drips of blood] with the syringe which had no reagents (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.877] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had no reagents (NEWHP: 1.6)  (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:31.236] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had no reagents (NEWHP: 1.6)  (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:33.418] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) (NEWHP: 92.3)  (Cryogenics (83,108,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:34.247] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) (NEWHP: 96.3)  (Cryogenics (82,109,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:36.472] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) (NEWHP: 95.3)  (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:37.848] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) (NEWHP: 95.3)  (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:41.687] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.127] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) screams! (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.137] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) entered hard crit thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -75.3)  (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.221] GAME: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) has teleported from (Cryogenics (82,111,2)) to (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:45.675] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) gasps! (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:51.953] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) lost consciousness thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -23.2)  (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:59.390] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek (Psychologist) (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -1.6)  (Library (80,117,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:00.882] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -9.6)  (Library (77,118,2))

me stepping out of storage to join in the fight with the rest of my coworkers as he was being rapidly healed, not only by his holoparasite, but by a syringe full of chems he had extracted from a lux pen using an exploit. At the time I hadn't known about the exploit, but I figured he was also juicing on a lux pen, because the only restriction is low pressure, which can easily be achieved by nearby external airlocks. I had a VERY REASONABLE belief that he was assaulting medbay to kill/maim doctors -- which he was, wanting one of the doctors' legs for a bounty -- which is a personal affront to me as a member of the department, and a personal affront to me as someone who had been engaging in an all-round long bantering back and forth with my exasperated but tolerant coworkers having had to find new bodies for people who kept gibbing themselves to my Do You Fear God? bit. It's imminently in-character for me to want to kill a dude who just staged an assault on my department and on the people in that department, and I think it's utterly arbitrary to declare that "not good enough". What is good enough? Should I have waited until he had stacked a few bodies or blown a hole in the place before I was able to cross the seemingly mobile adhoc goal line of "ok, now I can go try to fuck him up"?

But in short, I do believe you were validhunting here

Except I wasn't. I had a personal, in-character beef with Rick, the character, and as a result of the rules that you are claiming I broke (relaxed escalation for antagonists), the escalation was relaxed for me to be able to attempt to kill him for staging an assault on my department and my coworkers. It's utterly ridiculous for me to shake my fist at him using his teleporting healing holoparasite to momentarily escape from an engagement with a "WHY I OUGHTA!!!!!" after he had just kicked in the door and started wrecking up the place and trying (failing) to kill people. It's not validhunting to rep for medbay gang.

[TheBibleMelts]

The main reasoning behind the ban is that we thought that you going so far out of the way to kill Ratman jones was a case of Validhunting. the precedent 1 of RPR 4 reads:

Actively hunting a threat involves seeking out or pursuing that threat outside the bounds of your normal reasonable play area. Players are not expected to ignore antagonists during the normal course of play and may engage with antagonists who are active within their sphere. (Examples: A medical doctor knowing the identity of an active traitor could attack that traitor if that traitor came armed into medbay, likewise an engineer could attack a traitor they spotted breaking into the engine room). Players choosing this route should not attempt to chase down or finish antagonists who retreat from these engagements (unless they have reason to believe that the antagonist constitutes a global or round-ending threat or have a personal reason to do so under other precedents)

I've boldened the part that specifically talks about not chasing down antagonists that retreat from these engagements, which is what you tried to do.

Using the logs of every time you hit them, with a surgical drill or not, we can see that you went VEEEERY much out of your way to chase them (some of these paths are my best guesses based on the times where you hit them, but still):

Spoiler:

As such, I don't think the ban was misplaced at all, and I do not believe that "I also liked my coworkers" is enough of a reason to take chasing this guy down personally, honestly.

I wasn't tracking him down, I had followed him after he had attacked me and my coworkers. We fought throughout the halls and throughout maints. I had a legitimate reason to want to hurt him.

which was not the case, the first attack interaction between you two was indeed you attacking them. This still doesn't excuse straight up calling you a liar though; People misremember facts all the time, it's what we have logs for!

But in short, I do believe you were validhunting here

Before I proceed I do expressly request a headmin review of my appeal being denied.

Using the logs of every time you hit them, with a surgical drill or not, we can see that you went VEEEERY much out of your way to chase them (some of these paths are my best guesses based on the times where you hit them, but still):

Yes, as I said; they had staged a healing holoparasite mining gear jacked assault on my department and coworkers. I had no reason to know why they did it. I had no reason to believe they wouldn't return at the first opportunity (which they very much did, according to the logs, only calling it off when it became apparent the bounty was expiring):

Code: Select all

[2025-04-17 01:44:01.691] GAME-SAY: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) "cyborg." (Aft Port Maintenance (60,96,2))
[2025-04-17 01:44:08.607] GAME-SAY: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) "law two, help me kill th'lizard." (Aft Port Maintenance (60,96,2))

which was not the case, the first attack interaction between you two was indeed you attacking them[

The first logged attack interaction between the two of us was indeed me hitting him. The actual facts of the interaction was

Code: Select all

[2025-04-17 01:40:07.062] GAME-SAY: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) (guardian) "whatchya think, do we jus' run in slashin'?" (Medbay Central (94,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:45.423] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) clears his throat. (Medbay Treatment Center (83,103,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:48.482] GAME-SAY: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) "GIMME THAT LEG!!!" (Medbay Treatment Center (83,103,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:49.841] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) with cleaving saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 84.2)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,103,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:51.652] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked [��Medbay Treatment Center omni air scrubber oP3z8] with the cleaving saw (Medbay Treatment Center (80,99,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:56.434] GAME: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) Had an aiuri patch (burn) patch applied by Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek, containing the following reagents: Aiuri and Granibitaluri. (Medbay Storage (85,94,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:58.410] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked [full tile window] with the cleaving saw (Medbay Treatment Center (83,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:58.910] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked [cyan pipe] with the cleaving saw (Cryogenics (83,108,2))
[2025-04-17 01:40:59.495] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked [full tile window] with the cleaving saw (Cryogenics (84,109,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:01.211] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) healed bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) with the regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 45.1)  (Medbay Storage (85,94,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:01.265] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attacked moomcheese/(Jack Wells) with cleaving saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91)  (Cryogenics (81,109,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:01.815] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) punched moomcheese/(Jack Wells) (NEWHP: 85.7)  (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:02.952] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) screams! (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:06.701] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved moomcheese/(Jack Wells) (NEWHP: 85.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (80,102,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:08.022] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved moomcheese/(Jack Wells) (NEWHP: 85.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (78,99,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:16.321] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) punched neuroplasty/(Pepper Cornell) (NEWHP: 84.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (78,100,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:17.694] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) entered soft crit thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -1.3)  (Medbay Treatment Center (78,100,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:20.213] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) healed bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) with the regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 69.5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,97,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:21.762] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Medbay Treatment Center (79,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:24.640] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) healed bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) with the regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 77.9)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,97,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:25.511] GAME-SAY: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) "Miner with a holopara rampaging in med for whatever reason." (Medbay Treatment Center (81,97,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:26.818] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) pulled from neuroplasty/(Pepper Cornell) with Apollo-Juniper (NEWHP: 76.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (80,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:27.469] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) regained consciousness thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: 3.5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,104,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:28.865] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) healed bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) with the regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 84.9)  (Medbay Treatment Center (81,97,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.535] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 2.4999u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 2.4999u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 2.4977u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 2.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.535] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) injected themselves (/datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 2.4999u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 2.4999u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 2.4999u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 2.4977u, 1 purity)) with syringe (Medbay Treatment Center (82,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.539] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) transferred reagents to thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite (0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine (0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine (0.832567u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 2.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,105,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.680] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject [footprints] with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 1.6666u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 1.6666u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 1.6651u, 1 purity) (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:29.829] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject [footprints] with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 1.6666u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 1.6666u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 1.6651u, 1 purity) (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.199] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 1.6666u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 1.6666u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 1.6651u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.199] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) injected themselves (/datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 1.6666u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 1.6666u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 1.6666u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 1.6651u, 1 purity)) with syringe (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.202] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) transferred reagents to thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite (0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine (0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine (0.83255u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.468] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 0.8326u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 10)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.469] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) injected themselves (/datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite 0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid 0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine 0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine 0.8326u, 1 purity)) with syringe (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.472] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) transferred reagents to thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/medicine/salbutamol (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/c2/penthrite (0.8333u, 0.75 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/oxandrolone (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/sal_acid (0.8333u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/medicine/omnizine (0.8333u, 1 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/leporazine (0.8326u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 10)  (Medbay Treatment Center (82,106,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.703] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject [drips of blood] with the syringe which had no reagents (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:30.877] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had no reagents (NEWHP: 1.6)  (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:31.236] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) attempted to inject thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with the syringe which had no reagents (NEWHP: 1.6)  (Cryogenics (82,107,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:33.418] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) (NEWHP: 92.3)  (Cryogenics (83,108,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:34.247] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) (NEWHP: 96.3)  (Cryogenics (82,109,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:36.472] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) (NEWHP: 95.3)  (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:37.848] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) shoved BowlFork/(Apollo-Juniper) (NEWHP: 95.3)  (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:41.687] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.127] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) screams! (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.137] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) entered hard crit thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -75.3)  (Cryogenics (82,111,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:43.221] GAME: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) has teleported from (Cryogenics (82,111,2)) to (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:45.675] GAME-EMOTE: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) gasps! (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:51.953] ATTACK: thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (mob_3202) lost consciousness thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) (NEWHP: -23.2)  (Library (81,118,2))
[2025-04-17 01:41:59.390] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek (Psychologist) (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -1.6)  (Library (80,117,2))
[2025-04-17 01:42:00.882] ATTACK: bisar/(Ted 'GreyTide Ted' Metek) (mob_3252) attacked thebiblemelts/(Rick 'Ratman' Jones) with surgical drill (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -9.6)  (Library (77,118,2))

me stepping out of storage to join in the fight with the rest of my coworkers as he was being rapidly healed, not only by his holoparasite, but by a syringe full of chems he had extracted from a lux pen using an exploit. At the time I hadn't known about the exploit, but I figured he was also juicing on a lux pen, because the only restriction is low pressure, which can easily be achieved by nearby external airlocks. I had a VERY REASONABLE belief that he was assaulting medbay to kill/maim doctors -- which he was, wanting one of the doctors' legs for a bounty -- which is a personal affront to me as a member of the department, and a personal affront to me as someone who had been engaging in an all-round long bantering back and forth with my exasperated but tolerant coworkers having had to find new bodies for people who kept gibbing themselves to my Do You Fear God? bit. It's imminently in-character for me to want to kill a dude who just staged an assault on my department and on the people in that department, and I think it's utterly arbitrary to declare that "not good enough". What is good enough? Should I have waited until he had stacked a few bodies or blown a hole in the place before I was able to cross the seemingly mobile adhoc goal line of "ok, now I can go try to fuck him up"?

But in short, I do believe you were validhunting here

Except I wasn't. I had a personal, in-character beef with Rick, the character, and as a result of the rules that you are claiming I broke (relaxed escalation for antagonists), the escalation was relaxed for me to be able to attempt to kill him for staging an assault on my department and my coworkers. It's utterly ridiculous for me to shake my fist at him using his teleporting healing holoparasite to momentarily escape from an engagement with a "WHY I OUGHTA!!!!!" after he had just kicked in the door and started wrecking up the place and trying (failing) to kill people. It's not validhunting to rep for medbay gang.

hey there, person who was hunted here. i had no prior interaction with you or any of the medbay before this - and when you chased through maints to find where i'd been teleported by my holoparasite, i was already in critical condition. as far as you were concerned, i was just a crazed miner who had beef with one doctor. i think it was fine to beat my ass out of the department, but making several leaps in logic to assume you needed to chase me down and finish me off pushed this into territory that i felt was unwarranted. you ran through maints to where i'd been teleported to enter the backroom of the library, and then kept chasing me even as a cyborg had buckled me up and was trying to save my life - almost into space which was the only place the cyborg was able to finally get away from you. you yourself were personally responsible for getting several people being fully round-removed this shift and i don't buy that your actions were motivated out of safety for the crew.

[DATAxPUNGED]

Right, I forgot to mention but the headmins have been notified of your headmin review request. Although I think they have quite a bit on their plate right now so except to wait a tad.

[iain0]

Hi there, thanks for the appeal.

We have unanimously voted to uphold the verdict of the admins here. The relevant rule is accordingly stated in the current ban reason (see timber's post above).

We do not believe you have sufficient cause to make this more than a basic encounter under the rules, you're part of a team driving off an antagonist in their first act. You may or may not have a point about them returning but at this point that hasn't happened and the importance of this attack seems over stated.

We discussed internally "maintenance runs" and sphere of influence ; departmental maints seems a reasonable bound to chase people out of, however in this case arrivals maintenance would be beyond the departmental area and into arrivals maints and hallway.

While the cargo section with the chainsaw did not form part of the note this would seem even more egregious, however the case stands successfully on the maintenance portion alone.

Ban was levied for a combination of the two incidents in the one round.

We'd like to take this opportunity to expand the note a little to better represent our take on the rules ; we for example do not expect you to dead stop in the maints doorway as if a mime invisible wall blocked you going any further, but this persuit goes beyond that as per the precedent that limits you to your normal reasonable play area.

Banned from the server for 1 day - Validhunting: 4. Non-security may only actively hunt global or round-ending threats. Chased down an antagonist that had attacked a Medical Doctor as a Psychologist with a drill through medical maintenance, into arrivals maintenance and arrivals proper, going beyond their "normal reasonable play area" in this persuit. Was placed as a day ban taking into account prior incident this round.

Otherwise the appeal is denied.