farewell MSO

[dendydoom]

Bottom post of the previous page:

mrs toned one will return in: tgstation infinity war

[dendydoom]

also he's right (he's always right) insulting someone's physical appearance or unrelated characteristics such as their ability to convince people to have sex with them has no bearing on anything other than signalling that you think these traits are bad and when good people see you doing that it is upsetting them and they are probably not telling you

[ABearInTheWoods]

it clicked for me too

Nice. lets see how long it lists:

there’s a certain amount of caring and insecurity you have to have to find the word incel personally inciting.

That didn't take long. Here you are already being a misandrist. You are taking sexist narratives about men and using them to dismiss men's statements, feelings, and actions.

Why is it only men that get the treatment of dismissing their opinions and emotions based on a presumption that its coming from a place of insecurity?

Why is it that we only police one's insecurity in this matter when it's men.

Why is it that a women's insecurities are met with compassion but here it is met with contempt and used as an excuse to dismiss what they are trying to express?

Why is it so normalized to attack only men for their insecurities:

Have you noticed, when a product is marketed in an unnecessarily gendered way, that the blame shifts depending on the gender? That a pink pen made “for women” is (and this is, of course, true) the work of idiotic cynical marketing people trying insultingly to pander to what they imagine women want? But when they make yogurt “for men” it is suddenly about how hilarious and fragile masculinity is — how men can’t eat yogurt unless their poor widdle bwains can be sure it doesn’t make them gay? #MasculinitySoFragile is aimed, with smug malice, at men—not marketers.

Do you think our propensity to attack men for their insecurities might have anything to do with why men find it hard to express their emotions?

but to me the word “incel” is not really just that. the word “involuntary” does the heavy lifting- it’s a position of entitlement. that you are OWED to have sex. that you didn’t choose to not have sex.

The word was invented by a women to describe the wall she seemed to hit growing older and how hard it become to receive the previous levels of emotional connection and how hard that hit her self worth.

It wasn't until men started using it that we started to attack it as coming from a place of entitlement.

Which is how I know that this compliant comes from a place of misandry, more specifically hypo-agency.

if the word was “voluntary celibacy” then the entire blame gets shifted on its head. it’s your responsibility to make yourself approachable.

And this touches on another reason why I have an issue with the use of it as an insult. It directly targets equality minded people who don't want to be expected to cater to misandry and androphobia by making themselves "approachable" (ie, look like one of the "good ones") and indirectly associates the concept of men's equality with the likes of Elliot Rogers

No excuse for androphobia. And men calling it out are not acting entitled to sex. We can point how much it sucks that the choice seems be between "cater to sexism against men to prove you aren't like those other guys; or be forever alone and feel excluded as you see other people in relationships because they were willing to cater to the sexism or otherwise got luckily in a friendship match-up", without it coming from a place of entitlement.

it’s your responsibility to, well, be a lil flirty. involuntary is an excuse. that you tried and the world is just out to get you. not that the world will just accept you with open arms- and god knows women aren’t without their flaws in the same ways men are- but it takes personal responsibility to better yourself. and that’s why i think incel culture is inherently toxic to its core.

The problem here is you are talking about something that doesn't exist. There is no such thing as incel culture. that is a strawman built out of stereotypes and tropes about men. Any man who is down on their luck in relationships can identity with the insults thrown at "incels".

When I hear the word, i'm not hearing people talk about themselves, I only hear the word incel when other people are trying to link having certain opinions with all the meanings of the word incel. News articles of celebrities calling people who think x or complain about y, incels. To imply that if you hold that opinion, you must not be getting laid, but also to imply that if you hold that opinion, you must be one of the failed men who failed their patriarchal mandate. edit: This usage of the word is itself the patriarchy in action. You can not tie the status of good and bad or real/proper and fake/improper/imposter to maleness without reinforcing the patriarchal notion that maleness is something to be earned by performance (other wise known as toxic masculinity).

Regardless i know for a fact ive seen a-many folks use incel as a word to reinforce male patriarchy and use it as a way to say “I’m the better Man”- so im in agreement there.

Its telling that you constructed this in a way to imply the ones misusing the word incel are exclusively male. Perhaps furthering the trend of assuming malice exclusively when it comes from men.

Women enforce the patriarchy onto men too. They tend to do it more than men do.

My suggestion before you respond to my arguments, is to read more black feminists. bell hook's 'The Will to Change' is often recommended on the subject of reimagining masculinity. Or just browse my tumblr.

[DrAmazing343]

Been on Carly Rae Jepson again after MSO throwing up links like a tagger throwing up a new graffiti. Call Me Maybe is still my fave but damn if she doesn't have some bangers.

[kayozz]

Godspeed MSO - thanks for the sound channel and answering my numerous and boring questions. Please don't get bogged down into an argument in your leaving thread.

[ABearInTheWoods]

Please don't get bogged down into an argument in your leaving thread.

But it would be sooooo fitting.

[Jeb]

Please don't get bogged down into an argument in your leaving thread.

But it would be sooooo fitting.

It would be very on brand, lol.

10 years is a good run, godspeed!

[ABearInTheWoods]

10 years is a good run, godspeed!

oh no! you're gonna need a new byond username soon. Yours is about to expire!

[Jacquerel]

Please don't get bogged down into an argument in your leaving thread.

But it would be sooooo fitting.

Yeah I was going to say this is basically the perfect sendoff
thanks for all you have done man

[lzimann]

bye

[warbluke]

goodbye

[Jeb]

10 years is a good run, godspeed!

oh no! you're gonna need a new byond username soon. Yours is about to expire!

ʟɪsᴛᴇɴ ʜᴇʀᴇ ʏᴏᴜ ʟɪᴛᴛʟᴇ sʜɪᴛ

[ABearInTheWoods]

Been on Carly Rae Jepson again after MSO throwing up links like a tagger throwing up a new graffiti. Call Me Maybe is still my fave but damn if she doesn't have some bangers.

Roses, Cry, So Right, Sideways, Shy boy, Anxious, Julian, Kollage

There are so many hits.

[conrad]

Please don't get bogged down into an argument in your leaving thread.

But it would be sooooo fitting.

And so it was that the Great Stoner, last of his kind, took to the west, bound for the Undying Lands. Cloaked in robes woven from smoke and hemp, he passed from /tg/, bearing with him the griefs of Men and all the burdens of the Male world. Upon the high deck he stood, arms aloft, casting words of strange wisdom to the winds. Behind him, a trail of fragrant ash drifted upon the Encircling Sea, and his great doobie, kindled with the flame of ancient fires, smoldered like a star dimly seen. And thus he departed, with no promise of return, his voice echoing into the dusk.

[Nabski]

I followed his tumblr and regretted it because everything else I followed was art related so it would be art-art-art-art-very much not art-art-art-art-art-art.

RIP

[Fikou]

see you space cowboy

[Somepan]

Good riddance.

[jastindeep]

if you don't see how using the word incel, as an insult, is a part of the patriarchal enforcement of toxic masculinity then I can't help you.

You can call out misogyny without making it an attack on their sexual history and reinforcing the notion that a guy's self worth is tied to his sexual conquests.

something clicked and i finally understand the argument mso is making

it clicked for me too but i still have trouble agreeing with the argument entirely. there’s a certain amount of caring and insecurity you have to have to find the word incel personally inciting. expecting a man to be a lady killer is toxic masculinity 101. but to me the word “incel” is not really just that. the word “involuntary” does the heavy lifting- it’s a position of entitlement. that you are OWED to have sex. that you didn’t choose to not have sex

you're close, but the reasoning behind "involuntary" is "nobody wants to have sex with me". It's a conscious decision by the other people not to have sex with them, hence "involuntary".

but I digress. This thread was about MSO or something?

read more black feminists.

something I never dreamed of hearing here. Hell, anywhere. Good laugh.

[ABearInTheWoods]

read more black feminists.

something I never dreamed of hearing here. Hell, anywhere. Good laugh.

I'm serious!

[Ezel]

I wish you and your truck well mso. may you happily blaze in peace

[MatrixOne]

Godspeed MSO, thank you for all the years of commitment to tg and creating and maintaining this place that gave me a lot of fun.

I think... I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm almost ready to forgive you for banning me in 2015...

[ABearInTheWoods]

2 day assistant job ban lol. we don't give out those kinds of bans anymore.

[Kendrickorium]

secretly told me once that he really enjoyed my starsector posting

10/10 host

[kinnebian]

secretly told me once that he really enjoyed my starsector posting

10/10 host

KILLING YOU!!! !THE WORST TYPE OF POSTING!!!!!

[celularLAmp]

Good riddance

[FantasticFwoosh]

When are you going to close or transfer the merch shop to the new hostministration by the way MSO?

It was still open all the way on the outage on a seperate url.

[ekaterina]

Thank you for years of dedication to making tgstation the best. Godspeed.

[Ikarrus]

Rip

[ABearInTheWoods]

Rip

Sorry they massacred boxstation =(

[conrad]

Destroyed.
Reduced to atmos.

[BeeSting12]

Logged in for the first time in a while for this. MSO will definitely be missed, he exercised a strong restraint in using his powers (at least while I was active, can't speak to more recent times), yet was willing to use them when it was in best interest of the server.

Thanks for the time you spent hosting the server and for helping provide me with so many hours of enjoyment. And remember, noone truly quits

[Kraso]

Thus shall begin the fourth era of /tg/station.

fifth

[norsvenska]

Rip

Sorry they massacred boxstation =(

its ok im working on it

[Timonk]

Rip

Sorry they massacred boxstation =(

its ok im working on it

im banned i cant view that

[norsvenska]

Rip

Sorry they massacred boxstation =(

its ok im working on it

im banned i cant view that

congratulations

[Timonk]

Rip

Sorry they massacred boxstation =(

its ok im working on it

im banned i cant view that

congratulations

you are obligated by LAW to tell me what you are working on.

[norsvenska]

Rip

Sorry they massacred boxstation =(

its ok im working on it

im banned i cant view that

congratulations

you are obligated by LAW to tell me what you are working on.

can you show me the law

[Timonk]

Rip

Sorry they massacred boxstation =(

its ok im working on it

im banned i cant view that

congratulations

you are obligated by LAW to tell me what you are working on.

can you show me the law

just as the forefathers intended

[Festkongendk]

no love lost for that incel apologist. i sincerely hope he reflects on the error of his ways and stops being a reactionary

(USER WAS BLACKLISTED FOR THIS POST)

[dendydoom]

what would those errors be? not enabling misandry nor misogyny? willing to have difficult conversations that don't allow others to invalidate someone's experiences because of their gender? wanting a community where all people can belong and accept one another?

no one gets every decision correct, and these topics are almost always emotionally charged because they are often based on painful personal experiences, but this post is just ignorant and unkind. you might want to do some reflection yourself before throwing that very large stone in your very fragile glass house.

[norsvenska]

Rip

Sorry they massacred boxstation =(

its ok im working on it

im banned i cant view that

congratulations

you are obligated by LAW to tell me what you are working on.

can you show me the law

just as the forefathers intended

fair enough, here's a pr link https://github.com/tgstation/map_depot/pull/101

[Somepan]

what would those errors be? not enabling misandry nor misogyny? willing to have difficult conversations that don't allow others to invalidate someone's experiences because of their gender? wanting a community where all people can belong and accept one another?

no one gets every decision correct, and these topics are almost always emotionally charged because they are often based on painful personal experiences, but this post is just ignorant and unkind. you might want to do some reflection yourself before throwing that very large stone in your very fragile glass house.

MSO has done nothing but enable harmful rhetoric under the guise of "equality". Equality isn't protecting a group above all else because you feel like it. He's an incel apologist. He enables misandrist rhetoric by being openly anti measures that do good for groups he's not directly a part of, he's an egoist masquarading as an egalitarian because it's convinient to him. Blacklisting someone over being called an incel apologist and a misandrist when the guy has admitted that he would qualify as an incel is wild.
It fucking tires me as someone who had good memories with TG to now only thinking about it when acquaitances i've met there tell me of the new cool thing MSO did to someone.
Blacklist now, i just want to never think about you ever. Not even have the opportunity to see your bullshit anymore.

[AsbestosSniffer]

For someone who says you never want to think about MSO, you sure think about him a lot.

[actioninja]

(USER WAS BLACKLISTED FOR THIS POST)

lmfao fucking embarrassing. I hope you realize you are eroding the entire concept of the blacklist by weaponizing it against anyone who hurts your feelings.

[Somepan]

For someone who says you never want to think about MSO, you sure think about him a lot.

It's hard not to, i was a jannie, i've seen that most admins are actually sensible people despite the times they get put on blast for the one or two abuse of powers that happen ever 5 years. MSO is a stain, MSO himself makes the whole adminning aparatus looks like shit. He makes me regret having spent any time in that community.

I think of him like i think of all other useful idiots, too dumb to see what they're enabling, refusing to acknowledge any kind of issue with what they're doing, only saying whatever they want, all while asking of other people to treat them with the utmost care, i know it's unhealthy to engage with the shit he spews, i don't want to do it, but he made it his personnal mission to force such topics again and again and again, you can't even as a group make a choice to not engage with him, because, again, he will do it again.
It is unhealthy for me to think about what he says and does, in the same sense that it is unhealthy to obsess over what right wing politicians threaten to do to trans people like.
For a few weeks i thought it could be explained to him that some shit he says is actually, rehabilitating mysogynist at large.
Maybe i was under this impression because the conflict between us span years and that builds rapport, despite how much i hate his guts.
I wish i could forget his existance, and i wish he only occupied a minor role within tg, that way, maybe forgetting him about be easier, but alas.

[YuiY1997]

Only MSO could ruin his own funeral

[ABearInTheWoods]

i was a jannie,

just gonna quote the admin announce i left that caused somepan to ragequit the admin team:


(it also brushes up against rule 8, as virgin/incel/slut shaming is a form of sexual harassment, but only when they can see it)

For a few weeks i thought it could be explained to them that some shit they say is actually, rehabilitating mysogynist at large.
Maybe i was under this impression because the conflict between us span years and that builds rapport, despite how much i hate their guts.

Same bestie.

[Timonk]

For someone who says you never want to think about MSO, you sure think about him a lot.

it was me who summoned her, sorry

[dendydoom]

i can only assume the user chose to add that as a joke after the fact because i was not made aware of anyone being blacklisted and the list has not been updated.

i am also tired of petty rhetoric using people's lived experiences to sell some political or social justice abstract. it comes at the cost of the wellbeing of people in our immediate vicinity. if we are not here for each other, then why are we here at all? it is pointless argumentation for its own sake. so i am with you there. it's exhausting to see people hurt each other for no good reason whatsoever.

i've seen mso make mistakes and hold himself accountable for them, even if it wasn't a big public apology. i've also seen him ready to go to war with his own admin team over what he felt was unfair treatment of a woman in our community because they were accused of being a "pick-me" (read: textbook misogyny). i have never felt more supported by anyone in this community than mso. he checks in with me regularly. he knows when something has upset me. he sends me cat pictures when he thinks i'm having a bad day. if you see the person beyond the role, if you accept that he is a fallible human being like anyone else, then it becomes apparent why someone in that position is always on the defensive when people respond with unchecked outrage at the tiniest mis-step.

i once saw mso apologize to you when you opened yourself up and shared the effects of things he had said in the past on you personally. this apology has been utterly overshadowed by this incessant need to continue fighting. the very idea of an apology rejects the persona you've built up to struggle against. no bridge can be built while that need to fight for the sake of fighting persists. you have both, in your own ways, failed to recognize the needs of each other throughout that. but i've only ever seen one side offer an apology to begin some sort of process of understanding.

i've seen you both find common ground, but it was only when you stepped away from the abstract and spoke about your own personal, lived experiences and connected on those terms. your entire relationship is based on the fact that you must disagree with him. if you make the conversation all-or-nothing and condemn people outright for not being perfect on the basis of a pointless wider conversation which serves no one, then there is no value in any discussion with you. it is meaningless rhetoric. big rocks smashing through glass houses. for what? walk away and do something better with your time. perhaps use that energy on yourself or the people around you that would benefit from your support. not pointless arguments in polcon, the after-effects of which have been continuing for over a year after the fact.

[ABearInTheWoods]

He enables misandrist rhetoric by being openly anti measures that do good for groups he's not directly a part of

???

This better not be for what I think it's for. because if so that's hilarious framing.

[AsbestosSniffer]

i can only assume the user chose to add that as a joke after the fact because i was not made aware of anyone being blacklisted and the list has not been updated.

Public bans shows that Paulie Soprano got whacked by his boss Tony "Stonewall" Gualtieri.