BYOND account: MatrixOne
Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note): Note
Ban/note duration: Note expires 2024-12-31 02:17:40
Ban/note reason: [Common] Selena Rohrmann hisses, "I had that cum on my face for 20 minutes"
Was spoken to about what may constitute toeing around rule 8, and they specified it was a joke due to being inked.
Time ban was placed: 2024-11-17 02:20:48
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed:
242389 but the fateful joke was said in round 242377
Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(X) - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
(X) - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance
Why should this appeal be accepted?:
I believe there's an important distinction within rule 8 for jokes that are a part of the slapstick nature of ss13, and I have concerns about how the note was handled. The note was applied because someone in discord, post-round, posted my joke because they thought it was funny. Regardless, this prompted TBM to bwoink me. The bwoink went like this:
► Show Spoiler
From Ticket #2 during round 242389 on Manuel:
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Log Begins ----
2024-11-17 01:58:43:
Ticket Opened by thebiblemelts: hey, did you say something about having cum on your face last round? i can't see the key of who said it since logs are down and it was brought up to us in a screenshot.
2024-11-17 01:59:05:
Reply from matrixone: hi, yes I did, let me pull it up
2024-11-17 02:00:09:
Reply from thebiblemelts: it was "I had that cum on my face for 20 minutes" - that's a lil too sexually explicit.
2024-11-17 02:00:26:
Reply from matrixone: Okay I can't scroll this far up, it was basically like this - the gene was spitting black goo, and I was going to med to get a shower after a long time when I had that stuff on my face, and then the janitor comes over and cleans me off#so I said "Thanks, I had that cum on my face for 20 minutes"#just a funny meme, not meaning anything by it
2024-11-17 02:00:59:
Reply from matrixone: was never used in any bad context, just being silly
2024-11-17 02:02:25:
Reply from thebiblemelts: probably shy away from talking about cum being on your character for jokes in the future and it'll be fine. i'm just going to note that this convo happened/what it was about.
2024-11-17 02:03:24:
Reply from matrixone: i'd prefer if you did not, that's not a note anyone wants to have on their record. there's plenty of jokes going around and it was never meant in any bad context, but if you must then I suppose I can't argue with that
2024-11-17 02:04:25:
Reply from matrixone: but if it's rule 8 that's not erotic roleplay in any means, just being silly
2024-11-17 02:07:46:
Reply from thebiblemelts: erp is a flat ban, but we do note people who go out of their way to say something sexually explicit in the event it becomes a pattern of behavior. there have been instances where not noting folks for things that trip the radar have ended up with a cycle of skating by while continuing to do it.
2024-11-17 02:09:26:
Reply from matrixone: it's your prerogative to do it, though I'd appreciate if you didn't, that seems like a severe response for a joke
2024-11-17 02:11:02:
Reply from thebiblemelts: [Common] Selena Rohrmann hisses, "I had that cum on my face for 20 minutes"<br />
<br />
Was spoken to about what may constitute toeing around rule 8, and they specified it was a joke due to being inked.
2024-11-17 02:11:23:
Reply from thebiblemelts: does that as a note seem factually accurate or is there any other clarification you think it needs?
2024-11-17 02:13:21:
Reply from matrixone: It's factually accurate, but I don't agree that it's necessary, I feel somewhat hurt by this. Is it not allowed for characters to be silly? There was no sexual reference made to anyone else nor did it make anyone uncomfortable, and my character has a streak of saying things 'out of left field'
2024-11-17 02:20:12:
Reply from thebiblemelts: the only folks who will read it will be other admins, or anybody you personally decide to share it with. and unless joking about this is something that happens frequently, it'll just stay as a warning about the danger of toeing the line. i don't think you slingshotted over it, but there's a reason we're cautious about making sure there's a trail to follow.
2024-11-17 02:20:49: [The contents of this message are unavailable]
2024-11-17 02:21:11:
Reply from thebiblemelts: note is set to expire at new years.
2024-11-17 02:21:30:
Reply from matrixone: Fair enough, and it makes sense to have a trail to follow, but this is the first warning I've ever had for things related to it - as a show of good faith I'd appreciate if we could make it just a warning, rather than a full on note. It's your choice though, of course
2024-11-17 02:24:23:
Reply from thebiblemelts: the reason for notes is because we've had someone who got a 'warning' from like 6 different admins over a year or two before until we all realized what was happening and they were being a genuine sex pest towards people - not saying you are, but that's the reason for our caution on only verbal warnings for rule 8.
2024-11-17 02:25:37:
Reply from matrixone: That feels pretty bad then to not even get a single warning before a full on note then, especially when you said I hadn't even gone over the line of rule 8...
2024-11-17 02:39:45: Closed by TheBibleMelts
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No Further Messages ----
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This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.19.3
There are a few concerns in how this was handled. The main one is that there was no one made uncomfortable by the joke, and in fact someone thought it was funny, that's why they posted it on the mannycord. So it was TBM's own judgment that prompted them to note me. In the past I was targeted by unprompted overenforcement by admins with no "victim" or demand for a bwoink, so this made me feel quite bad, especially since the logs were down and I told him about what happened in good faith, but he still felt the need to leave a note. It also didn't help that this note is for a shift where TMB's static was on the run from me as HoS, and I arrested and brigged him at one point, then he opens this ticket and handles it himself to punish me. There may also be other factors, such as that TBM has been dealing with a mirror of a mass rule 8 ban of suspicious individuals from Monkestation, and this may have gotten him to crack down on other rule 8 adjacent problems or be less lenient, as anyone would, considering the subject matter, but I still don't want to be treated more harshly as a result. My point with this paragraph is to explain why I have some concerns about objectivity and would like a third party, who wasn't involved in that shift, to look over the topic. Even if they reaffirm the note.
Now about rule 8, the shortest rule of all. The rule is there to protect people from being made uncomfortable and to get rid of ERP, but I believe the point of it is not to crack down on dick jokes and the like. Nothing about my joke was "erotic roleplay" as stated in the rule. There should be a very clear distinction between dumb non sequiturs, slapstick and silliness when it's all in good fun and everyone is in on the joke, and shit that makes people uncomfortable and makes their experience of the game worse, which should be cracked down on. This may be a difficult line to tread but it's not defined in the rule itself, which leads to cases of overenforcement like this one. Even the person who posted the screencap thought it was funny. So why?
For comparison, this is the emagged sec hailer text that's in the game and played often for the meme factor:
And lastly, TBM said I "went out of my way to say something sexually explicit." My character Selena is a toothy tomboy sort of character and it's in her nature to be dumb and silly on occasion, especially in response to dumb and silly events that are in ss13's nature, but it's never about being sexually explicit or weird. Jokes of Sel's caliber have been pretty standard on Manuel - here's the proof, posted with Dendydoom's permission:
So, if times have changed, then maybe this appeal can have us consider an expansion to rule 8 to make this line a bit clearer. In the end, I made this appeal because I'd feel better about the note - even if it were upheld - if another uninvolved party had a look and confirmed this was the general consensus on the topic, rather than just one person's judgment. I trust Timber and Jane's judgment. And I know I don't have a right to request their time and I should first talk to TBM, so I came up with a compromise: you said in the ticket that you placed the note to have a paper trail in case someone had repeated instances of such behavior. Well, this appeal is in itself a paper trail, so would you be willing to remove the note now? And by the way, I appreciate that you gave it an expiration date, a lot of admins don't do that. But it still remains on record, even if faded, and I'd like Selena to keep being her silly self without having to puritanize her language. I can't do that with a note like that on the record.
