Thermal Pistols vs Lasers and blob (I DED)

[MooCow12]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... rmal.dm#L4

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/76458


Timeline

Lasers were buffed -> blob players cry -> vektor buffs only laser armor in order to not hurt emitters or welders or other similar sources of burn damage (blob effectively takes half damage from lasers) -> blob players happy -> thermal pistols added -> they were apparently balanced to be competitive with lasers -> they only respect energy armor (which is hard to get compared to laser armor) and seem to very much out dps lasers vs blob when both are actively firing (not to mention they are much easier to reload than lasers?)

Shouldn't lasers be better in situations where they are allowed to be recharged while thermal pistols are consistent but not overwhelming dps?


When is one meant to be better than the other?

[Cobby]

no one ever replied to this so ill say I think thermal pistols are in the place WT used to fill, and WTs used to just be straight upgrades because the ammo mechanic is/was nutty. These were supposed to be relative to the WT (worse obv cuz the point was the nerf), but even then they are still better than lasers, which makes sense given that they take some time to get to.

I don't have a huge opinion on how it relates to blob, I dont think side antags should be favorable to win anyways and should be designed to lose if the crew addresses it (since their purpose is to provide a distraction which theyre doing successfully).

[NecromancerAnne]

The only thing I ask is that no balance change be made to the game generally when trying to balance for blob.

A good change for blob would be increase a blob tiles defenses or giving more tools for blobs to defend themselves with. These are changes specific to blob.

A bad change for blob would be changing the damage to a weapon or reducing its availability specifically because of its effectiveness against blob in particular (I'm fully admitting here that removing beam rifles just for blob was probably not a good justification, but since those things sucked ass except to kill blobs, it may as well have been a blob specific change for all the impact it ended up having. People shooting you with a beam rifle were at best tickling you for all the damage it did to humans)

The game should not be warped or changed to accommodate blob. The knock-on effects to the rest of the game usually outweigh any consideration for what is only a mid-round antagonist. I will say the same of any mid-round. And, frankly, there is an argument to be made for balancing in this way for most antagonists. Focus on what is in the antag in particular, and not for something that affects the wider game unless that particular piece of equipment happens to be unilaterally applicable against any threat or opponent, antagonist or not.

Old tasers were pretty good specifically for human threats. Old buckshot solved pretty much all problems because of its overwhelming damage (I'm talking when it was at 90 damage in a full volley, not the 60 damage version or the current 30 damage version crew get). Then maybe it is worth considering generalized adjustments. A good signpost for something being in this kind of state is whether or not we feel compelled to include defenses against it for our antagonists generally. The proliferation of baton resistance right now is a good example of an ongoing issue endemic to antagonist design that we will want to work away from.

[Metek]

I would segue completely and instead have blob vulnerability to projectiles increase as a given blob tile takes more sustained fire in a period of time then rebound just as quickly; honestly it makes no sense at all for piercing weapons to be able to damage the blob let alone be such a trump against it. Using piercing weapons should require coordinate teamwork from the crew having to aim at specific bits of the blob in tandem instead of cargo just being allowed to go Rock Lee and drop the perfunctory observance they have of the economy "restrictions" to apparate hundreds of guns out of bullshit-thick air.

[MooCow12]

My issue is energy armor is generally rarer than laser armor.

Blob was made to respect that, not the other way around.