[Astrogem2] Carlarc - Wrongful murderboning ban?

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carlarc
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:56 pm
Byond Username: Carlarc

[Astrogem2] Carlarc - Wrongful murderboning ban?

Post by carlarc » #754567

BYOND account: Carlarc

Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note): Server

Image

Ban/note duration: 3 days.
Ban/note reason: Murderboning.
Time ban was placed: Screenshot
Server you were playing on when banned: None (sybil)
Round ID in which ban was placed: Screenshot

Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
(x) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(?) - The ban/note is not against the rules
(?) - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance


Why should this appeal be accepted?:
Hello. I tried to join the server today and was met with this, which left me quite confused, for the following reasons.

1. Retroactive Ban

I'm rather confused at this. What?
The language is vague, and leaves me uncertain of which definition it's under. These are the possibilites, to my knowledge:
A. The ruling was announced after the round, and I was banned afterwards despite operating under a different ruleset.
B. The ruling was announced beforehand (where? when?), I was simply banned after that round due to the issue passing unnoticed at first.


A is preposterous, of course. Since when are bans applied to a rule that wasn't applied in the moment? That's just not right for hopefully obvious reasons, so I'm assuming it's B.
B is odd. I hadn't heard of this new rule anywhere, so I'm unsure as to how it was applicable to me at the time. There was, to my knowledge, no MOTD, no discord pings, nothing to make me aware of it. Even so, rulebreaks aren't often pursued after a round is over, especially if they weren't egregious, so it's really weird that an administrator went out of their way to look for 'murderboners' to ban.

2. I didn't murderbone?

Murderboning, to my knowledge, is killing people randomly and for no reason other than short-term satisfaction. I never did that the shift I was a traitor on, in Sybil. I was pursuing my objectives.
To my knowledge, my kills were:

1. The HoP, who had the captain's spare, which was one of my side objectives, had a looted double-sword, making it hard to take them down nonlethally, and which was hunting me regardless.
2. The HoS, who was following the HoP around and defending them, further worsening the difficulty of nonlethal takedowns.
3. Ace Heart, who saw me passing by and subsequently reported my loadout and suggested an ion rifle over general comms. I'm not going to let someone who snitched on me over comms live, both because it's brutish, uncivilized (PDAs, anyone?), and because they directly and unnecessarily acted against my interests as an antagonist.

I also power-fisted a chef into crit, because my objectives were to inject them with the EHMS virus and chefs in their home turf are too dangerous to apply restraint to. I did not hide their body or anything, and later I saw them alive and well at the shuttle.

The shuttle arrived by this point. My final objective was to cause a battle royale, for which I had to get close to people and slowly apply an injector to them. To this end I ended up proactively tussling with some people who refused to stay still, but never killing them so I could actually use the thing. It didn't really work out regardless but it is what it is.

I lasered someone on a PADDY mech to crit, because that mech is very dangerous, but then ignored them because it's not my problem anymore.
On the shuttle, I walked around injecting people with the royale kit, but I wasn't able to inject enough alive players to trigger it before the shuttle launched.
A Clarke tried to kill me with a PKA and plasma cutter, so I shot at them and killed the pilot. A spy aided me, helping out and killing another weird, naked, long-haired person who tried to take the opportunity to fight as well.

That's about it for that shift in terms of me engaging people. I'll note I was in a cloaked infiltrator modsuit if that matters.

You'll notice that every single one of those fights and kills were initiated by other people, not me, and I never took it a step further to round-remove their body, or anything like that. I was following my objectives and that's that. I don't murderbone on lowpop, I never have. I have one note that says something like that happened, but that was a long time ago and I think had some context not noted down. All that happened that shift was either doing objectives or other people picking fights and dying for it.

If following my objectives is 'murderboning', I'm not going to play on Sybil at all, because then it's even stricter than Manuel. This ban should probably have been a note to begin with, I'm not known as a problem player that siphons fun out of rounds (just discord convos), nor do I have the note history for it.
carlarc
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:56 pm
Byond Username: Carlarc

Re: [Astrogem2] Carlarc - Wrongful murderboning ban?

Post by carlarc » #754568

I don't like making appeals for bans I deserved, even if they feel too long, but this seems like a complete misrepresentation of events.
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TheRex9001
In-Game Head Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:41 am
Byond Username: Rex9001

Re: [Astrogem2] Carlarc - Wrongful murderboning ban?

Post by TheRex9001 » #754569

Hey, not giving my opinions on this appeal, but the policy for this was signed in on the 18th of October and you were banned on the 23rd of October, 5 days after the policy thread for it was closed.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=37382
carlarc
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:56 pm
Byond Username: Carlarc

Re: [Astrogem2] Carlarc - Wrongful murderboning ban?

Post by carlarc » #754580

Am I supposed to haunt the policy discussion subforum as a player to stay up to date on niche administrative rulings? For something as impactful as this I would expect a lot more publicity than literally nothing.
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Vekter
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Byond Username: Vekter
Location: Fucking around with the engine.

Re: [Astrogem2] Carlarc - Wrongful murderboning ban?

Post by Vekter » #754586

carlarc wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:52 pm Am I supposed to haunt the policy discussion subforum as a player to stay up to date on niche administrative rulings? For something as impactful as this I would expect a lot more publicity than literally nothing.
For the record, this wasn't necessarily a policy change as much as it was an affirmation that we can continue to apply current policy. I'm not sure what policy Astrogem is quoting when they say "for a week", but the changes you're referring to about lowpop murderboning have been a thing for quite some time, the "ruling" simply affirms that we can continue to apply it at populations around 30.
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Vekter wrote:You should be reporting problems because you're wanting to keep the game fair/server healthy, not because you want to see the people who wronged you punished.
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Astrogem2
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:02 am
Byond Username: Astrogem2

Re: [Astrogem2] Carlarc - Wrongful murderboning ban?

Post by Astrogem2 » #754603

Honestly, I was sort of instructed to ban you but if you were boning, and I just jumped the gun a bit without really asking about it or doing a deep investigative dive about it. Considering the situation and the differences in formation between the two of us, and the lack knowing about this ruling and the commands given by me to you, this was considerably unjust.
I'm sorry about that and I'll get to unbanning you.
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