admin have hard time with word

[Sacko]

<ABritishfox ] alonzo moncada - admin was not privy to long lost definitions

note

appeal.

sacko

note

forever
I appeal for the enlgish langauge is an ever changing thing we must be privy to common statance but resepcect what has got us there. here we see an instance many instances i do may add of of the clalassical definition a word become twiststed in modern context. I used rape as it should have been in this context for there was no sexual context. I leave the floor to you

time was noon
manuel
19:17:54

Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
(x) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
() - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:

[Isratosh]

Can you explain the definition of the word you were trying to use? In common English used on our server, it is understood to refer only to sexual assault. Our rules state that sexual content is not permitted.

[NoxVS]

Please edit your appeal to fit the template.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44

[Sacko]

the definition of rape was to take from somenone. I was stripped of my belongings after death there is the rape.

[Timberpoes]

The note is:
Told a security officer "You raped me" and "rapist" when searched; reminded to not use that term as it's not acceptable in today's TG standards.

Logs used:
https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/manuel ... 3/game.log (admin link only)
https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/manuel ... attack.log (admin link only)
Logs were filtered only to sacko's ckey, any other player's say logs were harmless.

Code: Select all

[2024-10-22 18:46:21.969] ATTACK: D00mer317/(Kellen Sidower) (mob_3357) stun attacked Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 91.6)  (Medbay Treatment Center (124,97,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:25.708] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "securityh" (Medbay Treatment Center (123,97,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:26.853] ATTACK: D00mer317/(Kellen Sidower) (mob_3357) stun attacked Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 91.6)  (Medbay Treatment Center (124,97,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:27.021] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "p-URGH!" (Medbay Treatment Center (123,97,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:29.309] ATTACK: AverageTaxPayer/(Justin Case) (mob_3344) attempted to handcuff Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (NEWHP: 91.6)  (Medbay Treatment Center (124,96,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:30.176] ATTACK: AverageTaxPayer/(Justin Case) (mob_3344) grabbed Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) passive grab (NEWHP: 91.6)  (Medbay Treatment Center (124,96,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:31.341] ATTACK: D00mer317/(Kellen Sidower) (mob_3357) stun attacked Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 91.6)  (Medbay Treatment Center (124,97,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:32.369] ATTACK: AverageTaxPayer/(Justin Case) (mob_3344) successfully handcuffed Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (NEWHP: 91.6)  (Medbay Treatment Center (124,96,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:33.330] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "lease arrest the cmo\" (Medbay Treatment Center (123,97,3))
[2024-10-22 18:46:33.607] GAME: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) has gained the following brain trauma: /datum/brain_trauma/mild/speech_impediment
[2024-10-22 18:46:54.420] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "they hayvre taken all of my posessions" (Medbay Treatment Center (122,96,3))
[2024-10-22 18:47:02.356] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "and killed me" (Medbay Treatment Center (122,96,3))
[2024-10-22 18:47:15.370] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "arrest the cmo" (Medbay Treatment Center (122,96,3))
[2024-10-22 18:47:36.658] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "well" (Medbay Treatment Center (122,96,3))
[2024-10-22 18:47:53.142] GAME: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) has lost the following brain trauma: /datum/brain_trauma/mild/speech_impediment
[2024-10-22 18:47:56.269] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "striped me of mmy items" (Medbay Treatment Center (122,96,3))
[2024-10-22 18:48:08.515] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "after killing me" (Medbay Treatment Center (122,98,3))
[2024-10-22 18:48:55.414] GAME-PRAYER: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada): please break my shakles so I will unleash jusice on med bay
[2024-10-22 18:49:25.359] ATTACK: AverageTaxPayer/(Justin Case) (mob_3344) grabbed Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) passive grab (NEWHP: 83.5)  (Medbay Treatment Center (129,99,3))
[2024-10-22 18:49:33.617] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "hey unhand me" (Medbay Storage (113,103,3))
[2024-10-22 18:49:38.036] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "you rape me" (Medbay Storage (111,103,3))
[2024-10-22 18:49:40.219] GAME: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) has gained the following brain trauma: /datum/brain_trauma/mild/hallucinations
[2024-10-22 18:49:45.653] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "yes" (Medbay Storage (110,105,3))
[2024-10-22 18:49:53.507] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "rapist" (Medbay Storage (116,103,3))

[Sacko]

yes there is no sexual context in tg therfore the word goes back to it's root of taking simple as amend: admin knows that i invoked no sexual conext in the logs where he looks it up to say i raped the definition from his vernacular to a non sexual contextual

[aBritishfox]

Hi there, this ticket was due to another player Ahelping. The term "Rape" out of context, or even in context, is not the best use as many other words couldve been used, such as "stolen". Rape, regardless if used in an archaic way, is not tolerated by our rules as it can cause distress to other users. Hence the ticket initially.
I have spoken with other admins regarding this while the ticket was on going and we all agreed. Trust me, a note is a light "Hey don't do that".

[Sacko]

the rules create an environment where there is no sexual context. there for rape should be view as non sexual for there can never be sexual context. it defaults to stealing in this environment. there fore no sexual tone was invoked

[aBritishfox]

First definition of the term Rape is to commit a nonconsensual acts towards another person through sexual acts.

While you claim to use a very very outdated term (this isnt the 1300 anymore and the term changed in the 1400 to what it is today), the term "Rapist" you then used mutes the archaic term for rape as that then accuses the player which can cause distress. As by their ticket.

Code: Select all

[2024-10-22 18:49:53.507] GAME-SAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) (mob_5385) "rapist" (Medbay Storage (116,103,3))

[Sacko]

you see sexual context is wholly extracted from this environment. It cannot be perceived sexually no matter the date so there can be no distress from sexual source.

[aBritishfox]

Next time use the word "steal" or "thief" instead.

[Sacko]

I will due this in just haste. However in this instance nothing of sexual sort was involved but by the ticket maker

[aBritishfox]

I will be upholding the note as-is. In the future, remember to use the word 'steal' or 'thief' next time.

You can ask for a headmin ruling if you wish though however.

[Sacko]

I will appeal to the headmins for in this forum i have proved there was no sexual context and there could not be distress. so there should not resolve a note

[Vekter]

We have historically upheld the use of the word "Rape" on our servers in this context as a violation of the rules, either in a sexual context or as a rule 1 violation. The use of that word in any context like this is considered bad because it makes people who have experienced sexual assault in real life uncomfortable. Fox's punishment of a note would be considered relatively light in this situation; we have outright banned people for doing this in the past and refusing to acknowledge their mistake.

I understand there are likely some cultural differences here given that you don't seem to speak English natively, but please understand that our rules are generally written under the context of US culture, where that word is only really used in the context of sexual assault.

[Timberpoes]

The note mentions nothing about sexual context. It does not mention Rule 8. It mentions what you said and it mentions that you should not say that.

It doesn't matter if the word you used was once a valid definition of rape. These days it is an inappropriate use of the word.

See here some historic notes on other players for context:
2024-07-29 - Terry

As non-antag assistant, said "sec is raping me" during a valid arrest since they kept shoving security officers. [Redacted] has been talked to about avoiding talking about rape in this context, and spoken to about resisting valid arrests. Also overescalation by throwing lethal spears at security after the arrest.

2024-01-05 - Terry

Asked not to make comments such as : "We are going to tide everywhere and rape every department"

2023-10-01 - Sybil

Asked not to say things like "hes trying to rape me" "now stop trying to rape me". Disconnected without responding to PMs.

2023-07-24 - Manuel

Was told not to scream "RAPE" when under arrest.

2023-04-10 - Terry

Has been warned not to say stuff such as "im being raped".

You get the idea. All the way back to:

2019-05-08 - Sybil

Warned - Screaming about 'rape' when arrested.

It isn't acceptable, hasn't been acceptable and I hope regardless of the historic uses of the word that no future headmin term ever deems it acceptable.

[Sacko]

ok fine. however if there was no rule 8 being invoked then there is no what rule does it fall upon

[WineAllWine]

Rule 1? 0? 8? 6? WHO CARES. it's against the rules because you're being told by admins it's against the rules.

You were an admin you should know that kind of rules lawyering isn't going to get you very far here.

[Sacko]

There is no rule to put a pin on the ticket is a farce

[Timberpoes]

And if it doesn't fall under a rule, it then leans upon admin discretion.

The admin team's goal is to maximise the fun and general enjoyment of all our community members. Enforcing the rules as written is the primary way they do that, but not the only way. Admins can choose to apply or not apply the rules. They can even make up rules, fill in the grey area between rules or disapply positive rules that allow players to do stuff and tell players to stop doing stuff they'd ordinarily be allowed to do.

That use of discretion is challengable to the headmins. And you're talking to one now, and hopefully noticing that one headmin isn't entertaining petty rules lawyery bullshit.

Opening the floodgates for players to scream rape at petty theft because it had that meaning in a historic context? No thanks. The exact same argument can be used for a lot of other words, like claiming security are molesting you on arrest. Valid use of the word if you're Shakespeare? Probably. Acceptable on tgstation? Probably gonna get ahelped and attract an admin's attention reeeeeal fast telling you not to say that and noting you for it.

[Sacko]

Ok fine but if there is no rule there is no administration. You are then forth specters and ghouls

[GamerAndYeahMick]

Do you think this level of moronic pedantry is helping form a coherent argument, or that we really believe you meant rape in some sort of archaic english manner?

In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.