[Cheshify] - Gobears - Sec Ban appeal

[Festkongendk]

BYOND account: Gobears

Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note): Sec/Captain Job ban

Ban/note duration: Permanent
Ban/note reason: Banned from Roles: Head of Security, security, Veteran Security Advisor, Warden, Detective, Security Officer permanently - As a warden, chased a wanted moth who was cuffed into cargo. When the QM demanded a warrant, Gobears only responded with "HES WANTED". When they were removed from cargo by the QM, Gobears proceeded to flashbang cargo and lethal the QM to death, then finish the arrest.

You have a history of abuse as a security officer, and this ban will remain until you appeal showing that you're capable of being trusted with the responsibility.

Appeal when you feel that's been shown.

Time ban was placed: 08-29-2024
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 236087

Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect
() - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
(X) - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:
It's been 7 weeks since my sec ban was placed. A few days later I was banned from Captain as I authorized an execution of someone who I thought was an antag because I didn't know that stealth armor was a science object. Since then I have had no negative notes.

First I'd like to talk about the Captain ban. I admit I screwed up but it was out of ignorance and not shittery like my past behavior typically was. The HoS and detective both wanted me to authorize the execution. I initially said no because we had the guy cuffed in the shuttle brig but one of them crit the guy with 30 seconds left before the round end. Since he was already in crit, the round was about to finish, I thought he was antag, and my security team kept pushing for it I decided why not. So I made the wrong decision but I don't think it's something that should keep me permanently from playing Captain/head roles.

Now onto the sec ban. I accrued many notes for my poor security play. I think a lot of my bad actions were rooted in paranoia and my "win at all costs" attitude. This is what happened in my final sec ban that netted me the perma. I really wanted to catch the traitor and when the QM, not knowing he was an antag, tried stopping me I ended up killing him. Since my sec ban forced me to play less confrontational roles I think I have shown great improvement. My most common roles are doctor, paramedic, bitrunner, and HoP. Through playing these roles I've gotten more into the roleplay aspect of the server and have developed a less adversarial and confrontational relationship with the rest of the crew. I'm more focused now on helping people and creating interesting stories than just winning. I think this will carry over if I am allowed the privilege with returning to sec. Even before my sec ban I had acquired a bunch of notes for over-escalation and self-antagging outside of sec roles. Basically starting fights and using lethal force over minor provocations. To be honest the sec ban was a wakeup call, I know a lot of other players were annoyed with my behavior and when I was banned it did set me on a different path. Even my actions as Captain that got me banned a few days later was much less severe and since then I haven't been scolded by the admins (or players) once.

I believe my playstyle has genuinely improved and if I can play sec again I would not abuse my power and will play the role properly. Thank you.

[Vekter]

Hey gamer, Cheshify retired shortly after your ban so I'll take this over. I need some time to ponder on this one and look over your history; I recall it being very colorful and I'm not certain two months is long enough for you to have made a full 180 on your behavior. Give me a little while and I'll come back with any questions I might have.

E: First and foremost, the Captain ban will not be addressed in this appeal; you'll need to appeal that separately, since Pumpkin0 placed it and is still an admin here.

Having looked into your previous history, I can understand why this ban was made and, while I appreciate that you've taken steps to better your play as a whole, I don't think that this ban has been long enough that you've had a chance to completely reflect on your behavior.

A quick question: Given what time you've had to reflect, how would you have done things differently in regards to the ban you're appealing? To be specific, I'm referring to you barging into Cargo and killing the QM for harboring a fugitive.

[Festkongendk]

Vekter,

Now that Jeff provided some context I am remembering some details that I left out and I don't agree entirely with how the ban note characterizes the situation. I arrested the traitor outside of cargo and if I remember correctly a cargo tech shoved me and either pulled the tot into cargo bay before closing the doors or shoved him into the chute that leads to cargo. I got up, dove into the chute since they weren't going to open cargo bay for me, and chased him into the main bay. At that point I explained he was wanted and the QM telebatoned me and told me to come back with a warrant. It was at this point that I flash banged cargo. The QM got up and started heading towards me, prompting me to lethal him.

Jeff makes a good argument for why my some of my actions were justified. Even so I will admit that I made an error in that I went into cargo without a charged stun baton or disabler. Technically i did have a charged stun baton at the beginning but if I recall correctly it was only partially charged and I used the last of it to stun the traitor. I used lethals to take down the QM because since I had just used my flash bang and my baton was out , and he was still trying to stop me. At that point all I had left was my laser gun.

If I were to replay this situation again I think the biggest thing I would do differently is explain to the QM that he was a heretic, not just "he's wanted", and take greater care to carry a disabler or keep my stun baton charged. I will point out that it wasn't just the QM that demonstrated they were willing to stop me since the other cargo techs were in on it too. I don't think I was justified in using lethals since the QM was (probably) not going to kill me, just stun me, so I would wait until further escalation before using lethals. And most importantly I would leave the matter to rest of security since I'm a warden and shouldn't leave the brig unless it's an emergencies.

Regardless of the degree of my error here I understand that this wasn't the first incident and I'm not just appealing this situation in a sense but my many other violations of security policy and general server rules. But I do think my recent behavior, which is essentially spotless, is proof enough that I can be trusted with security. I don't think 2 months vs 3 or 4 months will provide more insight or proof into my reformed behavior and is redundant.

[dendydoom]

hello,

while i can appreciate that users currently don't have access to round logs and so our peanut policy is much more difficult to satisfy, the headmins have been clear that they don't want a change to peanut policy.

there are posts in here that are from entirely uninvolved parties that contain too much conjecture that isn't based on anything factual. please, even though these are well written, put them in a peanut thread instead - they don't actually help the OP deal with their ban. they just muddy the focus of the appeal thread and it takes longer to resolve. admins read peanut threads and will see the community's thoughts on their decisions.

thanks!

[Vekter]

I'm not interested in breaking down the situation much further because, well, Cheshify already did that, and I don't see any issues in how he handled the matter. I will post the relevant logs for the sake of giving more context to anyone who wasn't involved but is reading this appeal anyway:

Code: Select all

[2024-08-29 21:04:01.783] ATTACK: Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) (mob_3349) stun attacked Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 94.1)  (Cargo Bay (76,144,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:06.170] ATTACK: Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) (mob_3349) stun attacked Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 94.1)  (Cargo Bay (76,145,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:08.347] ATTACK: Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) (mob_3349) grabbed Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) passive grab (NEWHP: 94.1)  (Cargo Bay (77,145,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:38.786] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) has primed a flashbang at Cargo Bay (74,150,2) for detonation. (Cargo Bay (74,150,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:40.701] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) has thrown the flashbang . (Cargo Bay (70,145,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:40.755] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) threw and hit Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the flashbang (NEWHP: 100)  (Cargo Bay (70,145,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:45.810] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) stun attacked Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Cargo Bay (71,147,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:53.109] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: 100)  (Cargo Bay (69,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:53.210] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: 100)  (Cargo Bay (69,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:53.567] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: 75)  (Cargo Bay (69,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:53.664] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: 75)  (Cargo Bay (69,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:53.674] ATTACK: Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) (mob_3349) suffered: Second Degree Burns to chest | Damage: 25 (rolled 90/90.5975) | WB: -20 | BWB: 40 (Cargo Bay (71,150,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:54.063] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: 50)  (Cargo Bay (69,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:54.066] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot 5999c/(Glyphidoptera Hypophaea) with the laser (NEWHP: 80)  (Cargo Bay (69,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:54.672] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at [floor] with the laser from Cargo Bay (Cargo Bay (69,150,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:54.776] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: 50.2)  (Cargo Bay (69,151,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:55.097] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: 22.7)  (Cargo Bay (69,151,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:55.206] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: 22.7)  (Cargo Bay (69,151,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:55.212] ATTACK: Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) (mob_3349) suffered: Third Degree Burns to chest | Damage: 27.5 (rolled 85/103.53) | WB: -20 | BWB: 40 (Cargo Bay (71,150,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:55.587] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: -4.8)  (Cargo Bay (69,152,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:55.753] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: -4.8)  (Cargo Bay (69,152,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:55.995] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: -34.8)  (Cargo Bay (69,153,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:55.998] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot 5999c/(Glyphidoptera Hypophaea) with the laser (NEWHP: 55)  (Cargo Bay (69,153,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:56.013] ATTACK: 5999c/(Glyphidoptera Hypophaea) (mob_3353) suffered: Second Degree Burns to chest | Damage: 25 (rolled 82/90.5975) | WB: -20 | BWB: 40 (Cargo Bay (69,152,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:56.405] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at [table] with the laser from Cargo Bay (Cargo Bay (69,155,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:56.917] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at [floor] with the laser from Cargo Bay (Cargo Bay (68,153,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:56.921] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot 5999c/(Glyphidoptera Hypophaea) with the laser (NEWHP: 30.4)  (Cargo Bay (68,153,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:57.422] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: -34.6)  (Cargo Bay (69,150,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:57.492] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: -34.6)  (Cargo Bay (69,150,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:57.837] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at [floor] with the laser from Cargo Bay (Cargo Bay (69,150,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:58.243] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Paletuna/(Kolmi Dorsett) with the laser (NEWHP: 100)  (Cargo Bay (69,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:58.282] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: -64.6)  (Cargo Bay (69,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:58.340] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: -64.6)  (Cargo Bay (70,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:58.738] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: -94.6)  (Cargo Bay (70,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:58.740] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: -94.6)  (Cargo Bay (70,149,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:58.750] ATTACK: Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) (mob_3349) has died (BRUTE: 0, BURN: 200, TOX: 0, OXY: 0 (Cargo Bay (71,150,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:59.152] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at [floor] with the laser from Cargo Bay (Cargo Bay (70,147,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:59.466] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot *no key*/(slime corgi puppy) with the laser (NEWHP: 20)  (Cargo Bay (70,147,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:59.660] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) fired at Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser from Cargo Bay (NEWHP: -100)  (Cargo Bay (71,147,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:59.820] ATTACK: Gobears/(Paulie Soprano) (mob_3469) shot Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) with the laser (NEWHP: -100)  (Cargo Bay (71,147,2))
[2024-08-29 21:04:59.824] ATTACK: Sippy_Kot/(Kitty Long) (mob_3349) suffered: Catastrophic Burns to chest | Damage: 30 (rolled 84/116.942) | WB: -20 | BWB: 40 (Cargo Bay (71,150,2))

I'm going to say that I acknowledge that you understand what the problem was, but that your ban was for more than just this situation, and instead your behavior as a security officer over a long period of time.

I am willing to give you another chance, but you have to understand that you are going to be put under a lot of scrutiny for the next few months and another job ban will be significantly harder to get lifted. You need to understand that your biggest issue is your willingness to escalate to lethals as a form of problem solving over it being a necessity. All of your previous Security notes have at least something to do with using lethal force when it's not warranted. Keep in mind that it is almost always better to use non-lethal force to bring someone in and execute them later (with command's permission ofc) than it is to gun them down in the halls, especially if you're not 100% certain they're trying to kill you.

Do you understand? I am willing to unban you if you acknowledge that a second ban would be likely if further slip-ups occur.

[Festkongendk]

@Veker,

I understand that I need to stop escalating to lethals so quickly and that this is the main problem that has gotten me into trouble both as sec and as non-sec. I also acknowlege that I will be given less leniency than most other players due to my history and the short duration of this ban, and that if I get a second ban it will be much more difficult to get lifted.

@dendydoom

Jeff was was HoS that round so I wouldn't call him an uninvolved party.

[Vekter]

@Veker,

I understand that I need to stop escalating to lethals so quickly and that this is the main problem that has gotten me into trouble both as sec and as non-sec. I also acknowlege that I will be given less leniency than most other players due to my history and the short duration of this ban, and that if I get a second ban it will be much more difficult to get lifted.

@dendydoom

Jeff was was HoS that round so I wouldn't call him an uninvolved party.

1) I will give you another chance, but again, keep in mind that this could be your last if you continue to lapse back into your behaviors from before.
2) Jeff was not in this round observing or otherwise; Leonard Dryfus was the HoS.

[Timberpoes]

Just to double check Vekter's work:

The round with the ticket where you killed the QM and got sec banned by Cheshify was, as you correctly identified in the appeal, Manuel Round 236087.

The ticket may or may not be viewable on Mothbus, I can't remember how easy it is for non-admins to see tickets there. The link I used is https://bus.moth.fans/tickets/236087/6 to verify that the incident was for the events of Round 236087.

Admins can access the raw, un-parsed logs for the shift at https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/manuel ... 7/game.log (players can't access this as it contains IP addresses and stuff that the parsed logs would strip out)

JupiterJaeden did not connect to the server during this round, so they are an entirely uninvolved party that is unable to give any meaningful input on the incident.

[Festkongendk]

Sorry for the confusion, yes you're right Leonard was the HoS that round not Jeff now that I remember it.

Thank you for giving me a second chance, I won't let you down. I just connected and saw I'm only unbanned from sec officer. I think it would be good for me to wait and apply again for a HoS appeal since it is a head role and I also got banned from Captain due to my lack of knowledge, but I'd like to get unbanned from Warden and Detective at this time. Thank you.

[Vekter]

That was our tools not doing what they were supposed to do. I removed all of your security job bans. The Captain one should be the only one left.

[Festkongendk]

thanks