Non human heads

[Blacklist897]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I might be on a extended break but its a new headmin term so why not give this a try
we had non human heads on wallstation and we had some cool conflicts with asimov Ais, and manuel admins have also been running non human head rounds and the tg servers did not catch on fire, It might even bring back some of our leaving players

[dendydoom]

how will this test treat speciesism as an ic cause for conflict? eg, disobeying/mutinying a lizard captain on the grounds that your character wouldn't take orders from a non-human? is this a valid IC reason for conflict or will it get you in trouble?

[MothNyan]

It will not, speciesism RP is already a rare sight. With less in the setting to support it it will more likely disappear completely. You know what will happen if a subordinate rebels their head of staff over what species they are, in a setting where thats a fringe view and not supported by the Company.

I missed this earlier and I was focused on the silicon aspect of things so I'll respond to it now.

Species-ism RP is rare right now because Manuel tends to conflate it with actual racism and players can and will just murder the shit out of someone for saying "actually I think moth people are kinda gross". It's an enforcement problem, and one that I've been meaning to bring up to the new term, so I guess I appreciate the reminder.

I've tried time and time again to try and enjoy the speciesism "RP", and even though I've encountered "interesting" applications of it, I just can't get around to enjoying the "storytelling" that people really seem to glorify about it. I've had a chef throw eyeball soup at me for being a moth (though I think they were mainly angry about their vegan diets), I've had people throw interesting slurs like "sweater-muncher" or insults like "don't leave your dust everywhere" which were moth themed and silly - but usually it's just people just looking to be an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. You usually don't get the chance to tell someone after round, "hey sorry man, please don't take it too personally, I didn't mean those words towards you as a person, it just seemed thematically interesting to drive conflict there", which you might come to expect from an IRL game of tabletop / roleplay games.

Some people play video games as an escape from life, SS13 is no exception - and that doesn't have to mean that you bar RP or act like some friendly cuddly saint or anything. People who've been bullied or discriminated in their life may find it discomforting to have to deal with that in a game environment too.

I feel like the people who conflate speciesism rp with actual racism can't be entirely blamed either, when you have shit like;
viewtopic.php?p=733207

Where it's just thinly veiled actual racism, referencing the death of George Floyd, and treating a new player so horrendously that they stopped playing.
Most of my encounters with speciesism "RP" are just kids saying "you're a dumb moth grrr" and looking to play with some toy they've got stashed away in their bag that'll kill you in a few hits if you dare talk or fight back. But honestly it's not enjoyable to me regardless of the effort that's put into it.

I also genuinely believe that the speciesism on the servers is what leads to the "gangs" that form up between species, for example moths tend to stick around eachother because it's pretty instinctual that there's safety in numbers. With most non-human statics whenever I see actual speciesism conflict, and they're not already a confident and headstrong person, they just go silent and walk away, or sit there and take it. It's crazy how with a game full of human players, we exhibit human behaviours similar to real life when people get bullied or pushed down over and over again!

Usually speciesism as conflict within stories in media like movies/books/etc, are interesting and fun because they don't involve you as a person, it's an entirely contained and detached form of enjoying the story and its contents. Xenophobia in Star Wars or whatever can be neat because you're not personally involved in that story. You're watching in from a window. When you're roleplaying on a game and playing a character, even if that character is distanced from you as a person, you are still personally involved with personal attachments and emotions. What happens to your character essentially happens to you, as the player. Some people are better than others at defining a clear boundary between the game and their personal feelings - but hey, if that was always the case, people wouldn't be getting so mad all the time when they're playing games and got killed by a traitor or something... right?

I got a poor sleep last night, so I hope what I wrote makes any sense.

[Vekter]

It will not, speciesism RP is already a rare sight. With less in the setting to support it it will more likely disappear completely. You know what will happen if a subordinate rebels their head of staff over what species they are, in a setting where thats a fringe view and not supported by the Company.

I missed this earlier and I was focused on the silicon aspect of things so I'll respond to it now.

Species-ism RP is rare right now because Manuel tends to conflate it with actual racism and players can and will just murder the shit out of someone for saying "actually I think moth people are kinda gross". It's an enforcement problem, and one that I've been meaning to bring up to the new term, so I guess I appreciate the reminder.

I've tried time and time again to try and enjoy the speciesism "RP", and even though I've encountered "interesting" applications of it, I just can't get around to enjoying the "storytelling" that people really seem to glorify about it. I've had a chef throw eyeball soup at me for being a moth (though I think they were mainly angry about their vegan diets), I've had people throw interesting slurs like "sweater-muncher" or insults like "don't leave your dust everywhere" which were moth themed and silly - but usually it's just people just looking to be an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. You usually don't get the chance to tell someone after round, "hey sorry man, please don't take it too personally, I didn't mean those words towards you as a person, it just seemed thematically interesting to drive conflict there", which you might come to expect from an IRL game of tabletop / roleplay games.

I think one of the biggest issues with /tg/ in general is that far, far too many people see their character as an extension of themselves as opposed to someone else. A lot of people hear things like those creative insults and immediately assume "Well, they're just actively being an asshole to me". I think it's a mindset we would do well to move away from in general. It's something to generally stay away from because it limits interesting interactions and leads to hurt feelings over another character's actions.

I think that species-ism tends to not really be explored enough on our servers in interesting ways. We've had characters focus on it in the past in some ways that border on being interesting, but far too often it just devolves into "trying to make someone angry enough that they attack you so you can fight back". There's interesting ways to do it - Maybe a security officer gives longer brig timers to felinids, or tends to take the side of humans more often than not? Maybe the cook refuses to make Tiziran food because the ingredients are harder to get a hold of? A medical doctor prioritizes the human casualties over other species because they think they're more useful than other species?

That being said, do I really think the setting or our server needs it in order to survive? No. It's more just an interesting bit of world-building that can sometimes be neat but isn't really used to its best by our players, and if we can generally move away from it, I think we'd probably be better for it in the long run. The problem is that I think most players who incorporate it into their character are doing it not because they think it would be interesting, but because they think being (insert species) is cringe and they want to be jerks to them, and I think that's a fair enough reason to take that toy away and put it on the high shelf.

[TheSmallBlue]

My hot take is that space racism really isn't as interesting as some people make it out to be, if at all. Like, it's just species racism, a concept that goes back to olden versions of DnD, that's been at this point overused to death.

[8bot]

this is going to lead to them wanting to make crewsimov default
you know it will

[ItzRiumz]

I’ve never had any interesting speciesism interactions besides people trying to bait fights or someone calling me the L word. The server would be better off without it.

[8bot]

I’ve never had any interesting speciesism interactions besides people trying to bait fights or someone calling me the L word. The server would be better off without it.

i've had plenty but that's because my ego isn't wrapped up in my static, zachary chester the amazing retarded cat
you just want to remove another aspect of the chaos and paranoia that ss13 provides so you can do your job simulator, and your precious OC doesn't get made fun of for being a scaled freak. revel in it, my guy. i reveled in my precious OC getting treated horribly because he was a furry freak. and that was when i wasn't playing clown.
alternatively, JUST PLAY A HUMAN!!!!!!
i am not mad, i am sad. sad this is what happened.

[8bot]

actually adding onto this because it quantifies my thoughts on space racism well and why people who complain about it utterly befuddle me
you choose to play a non-human in a setting that oppresses them. you choose to do this. whether it's for their mechanical advantages, appearance, or so you can be part of the moth circlejerk, you objectively, literally choose to play the character type that is oppressed and considered second-class citizens. if you cannot handle the heat that comes with that, just play humans instead. it's that simple. it's a simple button press. like great googly moogly it's like picking wheelchair and getting pissed that you weren't able to escape an antagonsit cuz he could outrun your crippled ass.
i was a felinid player for years, and at no moment was i myself a victim of space racism or whatever. my character was. learn to separate OOC/IC and get some actual roleplay skill. this is coming from someone whose lost lenore is pre-2022 LRP.

tl;dr if u dont want to be treated as a non-human, play a human!!!!1

[ItzRiumz]

i've had plenty but that's because my ego isn't wrapped up in my static, zachary chester the amazing retarded cat
you just want to remove another aspect of the chaos and paranoia that ss13 provides so you can do your job simulator, and your precious OC doesn't get made fun of for being a scaled freak. revel in it, my guy.

Except I never said I wanted the game to be a job simulator? I’ve played down streams where the game is pretty much a job simulator and it isn’t fun. So don’t put words into my mouth and assume what I believe TG should move towards.

Also I don’t see how getting rid of speciesism removes paranoia from the game. If this is over borgs and the AI then let me tell you I never trust silicons even when I’m playing my human static.

As for non-human heads I believe expanding our pool of players for head of staff positions is healthy for the game. A larger pool of players in that role will help the game immensely with new players and ideas entering those roles. It will also help with command staff shortages that I often see in the game resulting in half the departments without someone leading them.

[8bot]

i've had plenty but that's because my ego isn't wrapped up in my static, zachary chester the amazing retarded cat
you just want to remove another aspect of the chaos and paranoia that ss13 provides so you can do your job simulator, and your precious OC doesn't get made fun of for being a scaled freak. revel in it, my guy.

Except I never said I wanted the game to be a job simulator? I’ve played down streams where the game is pretty much a job simulator and it isn’t fun. So don’t put words into my mouth and assume what I believe TG should move towards.

Also I don’t see how getting rid of speciesism removes paranoia from the game. If this is over borgs and the AI then let me tell you I never trust silicons even when I’m playing my human static.

As for non-human heads I believe expanding our pool of players for head of staff positions is healthy for the game. A larger pool of players in that role will help the game immensely with new players and ideas entering those roles. It will also help with command staff shortages that I often see in the game resulting in half the departments without someone leading them.

if they want to play a head, why not just play a human?
nothing is stopping them but their unhealthy attachment to their statics.

[ItzRiumz]

i've had plenty but that's because my ego isn't wrapped up in my static, zachary chester the amazing retarded cat
you just want to remove another aspect of the chaos and paranoia that ss13 provides so you can do your job simulator, and your precious OC doesn't get made fun of for being a scaled freak. revel in it, my guy.

Except I never said I wanted the game to be a job simulator? I’ve played down streams where the game is pretty much a job simulator and it isn’t fun. So don’t put words into my mouth and assume what I believe TG should move towards.

Also I don’t see how getting rid of speciesism removes paranoia from the game. If this is over borgs and the AI then let me tell you I never trust silicons even when I’m playing my human static.

As for non-human heads I believe expanding our pool of players for head of staff positions is healthy for the game. A larger pool of players in that role will help the game immensely with new players and ideas entering those roles. It will also help with command staff shortages that I often see in the game resulting in half the departments without someone leading them.

if they want to play a head, why not just play a human?
nothing is stopping them but their unhealthy attachment to their statics.

Because people want to play their character in a head of staff position. It turns out that people want to have their nonhuman in a head of staff position because they want to roleplay their character in that position. Felinid mains do this all the time. Just switching their character from felinid to human to bypass the human head of staff enforcement.

[britgrenadier1]

This has nothing to do with ego being wrapped up in a static and everything to do with the way this part of the game is used. It’s not interesting, it’s tired, it’s often incredibly bigoted and thinly veiled real racism.

Human players are really out here crying about two weeks of freedom and have the audacity to yell snowflake and “just deal with it” when the oppressed class actually claps back in game. I’ve never seen an in game racist not cry to the nearest admin when their griefing lands them DNR in the morgue or ignored by half the playerbase because it’s frankly just weird that when you are presented with a wide and open sandbox of a game your impulsion was to go “Yeah I’d like to play a character who hates people because of immutable character traits.” Then follow that with defending it on the forums because you unironically dislike the players who would pick one of those oppressed species.

This tide is inevitable, and it’s only inevitable because people can’t handle not saying ligfrica or griefing people because they picked felinid.

[Roadto3k]

Fret not your racism rp is here to stay. It stayed on wallstation and yes, we even got more of it when non humans were in head roles.

This has nothing to do with ego being wrapped up in a static and everything to do with the way this part of the game is used. It’s not interesting, it’s tired, it’s often incredibly bigoted and thinly veiled real racism.

Human players are really out here crying about two weeks of freedom and have the audacity to yell snowflake and “just deal with it” when the oppressed class actually claps back in game. I’ve never seen an in game racist not cry to the nearest admin when their griefing lands them DNR in the morgue or ignored by half the playerbase because it’s frankly just weird that when you are presented with a wide and open sandbox of a game your impulsion was to go “Yeah I’d like to play a character who hates people because of immutable character traits.” Then follow that with defending it on the forums because you unironically dislike the players who would pick one of those oppressed species.

This tide is inevitable, and it’s only inevitable because people can’t handle not saying ligfrica or griefing people because they picked felinid.

[carlarc]

how will this test treat speciesism as an ic cause for conflict? eg, disobeying/mutinying a lizard captain on the grounds that your character wouldn't take orders from a non-human? is this a valid IC reason for conflict or will it get you in trouble?

i dont understand this question at all. why would the rules need to be changed? replace 'speciesism' with 'hair color' to questions on ruling and you have the answers already

you can disobey a captain with blue hair, but you'll likely be demoted or brigged. same with species? you can already be speciesist towards a captain that had their race changed IC

also on some thought i agree with the users above commenting that Timber is being rather mean and callous for no reason towards nonhuman players that want to be head. i dont think that was a nice thing to say nor a good reason to refuse the concept outright, it looks more like burying your head in the sand

[8bot]

it's a spaceman video game
comparing space racism in space station 13 to real life racism is actually deranged
like genuine, actual insanity

[Mimepride]

As for non-human heads I believe expanding our pool of players for head of staff positions is healthy for the game. A larger pool of players in that role will help the game immensely with new players and ideas entering those roles. It will also help with command staff shortages that I often see in the game resulting in half the departments without someone leading them.

I don't get why people talk about "command shortages" so much, as if they're a universal negative. I frequently play medbay, and used to play a lot of science...Whether my department had a head or not had basically no bearing on my shift, and it definitely didn't hurt the efficiency of our department not having one. Not having a head of department just means you have one less baton-wielding egomaniac running around(a certain subset of the playerbase roll command explicitly for that reason--since it's a one tap win stick in many situations). I seriously don't fucking understand this strange vision and need some players have where they act as if a department doesn't have a head then it's useless, doomed or otherwise.

And more to the point--I do not want my boss to be a lizard, thanks. Browns straight up won't obey a non-human head.

The attachment to your static argument holds serious water. You all should just make a human character if you want to roll command.

The people talking about speciesism not being fun also seem to be speaking exclusively from the "receiving" end of the spectrum(which I've also experienced, by the way). Did you know that you can have fun and literally make new friends by being selectively mean to certain races while preferring others? It happened to me and it could happen to you. And yes, calling lizards "foul beasts" will never get old to me.

As for Britgrenadiers jewel of a post:

It’s not interesting, it’s tired, it’s often incredibly bigoted and thinly veiled real racism.

Nice to see that the earlier insinuation that I made about many people mistakenly believing that IC speciesism literally translates to real life racism vindicated. Honestly, there should be a rule against that or something, because it should be very fucking alarming to anyone free and fair-minded that tossing out accusations like that isn't very cool...

As to the claims that it's not interesting or tired--that's just like, uh, your opinion man. Your claim that it's largely human players opposing this change in this thread is just wrong. Or maybe you missed the posts by myself, 8bot, and NecromancerAnne where we said otherwise?

Also, I already wrote a paragraph on why speciesism and racism can never be compared and how they literally aren't the same thing. You should watch any season of Star Trek pre-Kelvin timeline(aka NuTrek) to see what I mean. In Star Trek's timeline, like ours, racism literally doesn't exist anymore(not only that, but it's a poster child series for racial equality IRL)...But what about speciesism? It 100% exists in that universe. Just look at how the rest of the crew treat Spock in Star Trek: TSO. What about TNG? Worf has tons of speciesist interactions--like when his brother accuses him of not being a real Klingon because he's a federation officer. DS9? Again, Odo experiences specesism and has multiple episodes about his difficulty in living amongst the "solids"; there's also a great episode where Capt. Sisko plays a baseball game against an old Vulcan rival who says some pretty speciesist shit about humanity(it's pretty obvious that he's implying humanity is inferior to Vulcans IMO). That's scratching the surface in a long list of many many speciesist interactions in that series.

The idea that speciesism is something pernicious which must be exorcized from the game in order to keep it fun is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

[ItzRiumz]

it's a spaceman video game
comparing space racism in space station 13 to real life racism is actually deranged
like genuine, actual insanity

It's kinda easy to be able to compare the two since so many people like to use the L word when dealing with lizards because it's just the N word but spelled with a L. Oh, and let's not forget things like,"Go back to Ligfrica.", or how about that fucking crime statistics shit people like to spout about non-humans sometimes. Listen, fake racism can be done very well if you have nuance with it. The problem is that no one on this game is able to do that at all. I never see people come up with names like tail-dragger or Sock-Muncher. It's always the most laziest shit imaginable when it comes to it. Which is why I think we should just drop it in its entirety, it does more negative than good.

[britgrenadier1]

Fret not your racism rp is here to stay. It stayed on wallstation and yes, we even got more of it when non humans were in head roles.

This has nothing to do with ego being wrapped up in a static and everything to do with the way this part of the game is used. It’s not interesting, it’s tired, it’s often incredibly bigoted and thinly veiled real racism.

Human players are really out here crying about two weeks of freedom and have the audacity to yell snowflake and “just deal with it” when the oppressed class actually claps back in game. I’ve never seen an in game racist not cry to the nearest admin when their griefing lands them DNR in the morgue or ignored by half the playerbase because it’s frankly just weird that when you are presented with a wide and open sandbox of a game your impulsion was to go “Yeah I’d like to play a character who hates people because of immutable character traits.” Then follow that with defending it on the forums because you unironically dislike the players who would pick one of those oppressed species.

This tide is inevitable, and it’s only inevitable because people can’t handle not saying ligfrica or griefing people because they picked felinid.

Me being against it and it being here to stay are two different things. Let me know if you need that clarified further

[Roadto3k]

Yes well any two things are two different things, that is generally agreed on.

[DrAmazing343]

Speciesism will be just as much a valid source of IC conflict as it ever was, perhaps with more limelight on it this time around. You could still refuse to work under an alien before in Cargo or with promoted Heads before, so why not now? I’d just say that you’re still liable to be demoted and kicked out of your starter department if you bring that escalation/conflict on hard and the alien is, in fact, your boss. I don’t think a change needs to be made in terms of policy for escalation/conflict that was already present before.

As for the other folks in this thread— please keep it civil, let’s not call one another racists for IC speciesism. It’s a little ridiculous for slinging in a policy thread. Star Trek fucking rules. Doc out.

[TypicalRig]

I like the idea of this being a "sometimes food", which is why I argued for the idea of it being a station trait.

I pitched this idea to Oranges ages ago and he said he'd merge a non-human head station trait as long as the likelihood of it happening was low enough. No idea how he feels about it now, or the coders, but I've been preaching this for ages. Would make it more interesting as a rare thing and be a good compromise for the "muh lore" vs "muh freedom" sides.

[DrAmazing343]

I’d also be way past down for a station trait of nonhuman heads if that got the door open for more people— it’d also make more sense in the lore (not every station is so xeno-centric) so it’d be a kickass compromise.

[AsbestosSniffer]

My hot take is that space racism really isn't as interesting as some people make it out to be, if at all. Like, it's just species racism, a concept that goes back to olden versions of DnD, that's been at this point overused to death.

Everything has been overused to death.

The major issue is that it often only goes one-way, you really don't see many lizard/moff/plasmeme/ethereal statics make speciesist comments about one another or humans. That's not to say I want every round to be the Race War Happy Hour, I'm just pointing out the lack of speciesism from non-human statics, and what with everyone being so friendly, as a result speciesism just feels forced.

And while yes, you do have people using that as a veil for racialism and other such real life ideologies, I think there's also plenty of people who can't seem to disconnect the game from real life with the worst case scenario being the thought that a static is one-and-the-same with a player when it could very well be the opposite (That's not to say I blame anyone, it can be very difficult to visualise that disconnect). A static is a CHARACTER, they are not the person behind the screen so they can feel free to be an arsehole and my static will be an arsehole back to them, unless that insult consists of something obviously OOC like "Hey [ckey], you should rope".

As for non-human heads? I'm neutral on the subject, I think it might work better as a station trait that's shown on the lobby screen (such as the toggleable ones like skub or non-silicon AI) as a compromise like others have mentioned, something that happens every once-in-a-blue-moon to maximise, but many arguments could also be made against that and I'm sure many would prefer one or the other rather than that aforementioned compromise.

TL;DR speciesism falls flat because those darn xenos are too friendly grrr

[8bot]

it's a spaceman video game
comparing space racism in space station 13 to real life racism is actually deranged
like genuine, actual insanity

It's kinda easy to be able to compare the two since so many people like to use the L word when dealing with lizards because it's just the N word but spelled with a L. Oh, and let's not forget things like,"Go back to Ligfrica.", or how about that fucking crime statistics shit people like to spout about non-humans sometimes. Listen, fake racism can be done very well if you have nuance with it. The problem is that no one on this game is able to do that at all. I never see people come up with names like tail-dragger or Sock-Muncher. It's always the most laziest shit imaginable when it comes to it. Which is why I think we should just drop it in its entirety, it does more negative than good.

this post reads like somebody in dchat seething and saying the antag that killed them is "boring"
you dislike something because of your real world stance and are dishonestly trying to frame it differently, in the hopes that you'll win people over to your side by seeming 'objective' about it. this is not an insult, this is a statement of fact. it is what you are doing.

it doesn't do any negative. it's making fun of fictional races, wacky space aliens. it's tongue in cheek. it's a joke. space station 13 is, in fact, a tongue in cheek game with a wacky tone. the word 'ligger' is ridiculous. so are clowns being from clown planet, which was destroyed in a war. what, are we gonna start comparing people making fun of clown planet getting blown up to making fun of real world genocides? no, that's fucking insane.

learn to take a joke. in fact, that's not even necessary. the joke isn't directed to you. it's directed at your character. laugh it off. they took something offensive in real life, and turned it into a completely innocuous slur for bipedal lizardmen. "space jesus" makes fun of jesus, and that's potentially offensive to like a billion fucking people. the crusader armor is based off of actual armor worn by crusaders who waged religious wars. when a pastor says "DEUS VULT" and starts chainsawing antagonists/demons, though, people don't get upset because that's glorifying the fucking crusades.

it's a cartoony space video game. anything in it that's taken from real life is a literal parody.

this reminds me of that weird youtuber who would criticize episodes of spongebob because patrick is stupid in them, and seriously say shit like "Patrick is a toxic friend to Spongebob." like no shit, man, it's a cartoon.

same with this game: if a guy walked up to me and called me a slur, i'd get fucking pissed. but, in ss13, if a guy walked up to zachary chester and called him a nyagger, i wouldn't get pissed, and zachary chester would react according to his character. because it's a roleplaying game, and i roleplay to fit the tone.

try it sometime, and stop trying to alter the tone of the game to fit how you want to roleplay instead.

[TheLoLSwat]

It being a trait (an intern deleted the species database!) or human heads being preferred seem like the best way to allow nonhuman command staff while preserving the human-supremacy spice seen in the game.

I also think this whole thing is going in circles, after the two weeks it’s going back on the shelf for 6 months when the new headmins make a decision again. It will always come down to the vibes and fortunately (for me, as a human captain player lol) the vibes of most longtime admins are against this.

[Sampslig]

Someone mentioned earlier NT doing a DEI hire type scenario and that makes me think, it would be interesting if instead of just letting all heads be nonhuman, one noncaptain head per round can be nonhuman, with no way of knowing which one when signing up, so each round there is at least a chance of a nonhuman head, and all conflict due to nonhuman heads will be centralized more to a specific person per round instead of rampant.

I'll also toss in that QM has never had any issues with silicons despite having nonhumans enabled for a pretty long time now

[8bot]

Someone mentioned earlier NT doing a DEI hire type scenario and that makes me think, it would be interesting if instead of just letting all heads be nonhuman, one noncaptain head per round can be nonhuman, with no way of knowing which one when signing up, so each round there is at least a chance of a nonhuman head, and all conflict due to nonhuman heads will be centralized more to a specific person per round instead of rampant.

I'll also toss in that QM has never had any issues with silicons despite having nonhumans enabled for a pretty long time now

QM isn't a real head and will never be treated as one no matter how much coders and admins try to push it
no, you do not count. you never will.

[GamerAndYeahMick]

I am going to be blunt in saying I do not care how well this worked on other servers or how well it works, we are not other servers. all the other servers have it so it can be experienced there, the dynamic we have on tg is something different and one I am interested in upholding. Also this doesn't seem inherently more interesting than the conflict created by non humans being forbidden as head.

Head admin decision
GamerAndYeahMick/Burgerman: No - Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
Timberpoes: No, for about 12 different reasons spread across here and the headmin election discussion thread on it. I approve of a 2 week one-off run to give DramaZing a small headmin platform W, but it's not something I want to change.
dramazing343: Yes; Though while I’ve enjoyed the results I’ve seen so far, there’s zero chance for this policy being changed this term, and I think we’ll need to see some rework code wise before any future term is willing to make concessions.