[Pumpkin0] - Gobears - Unauthorized execution

[Festkongendk]

BYOND account: Gobears

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
(x) - Server Ban
() - Note (evil)
() - Forum Ban
() - Discord Ban

Ban/note length: Forever.
Ban/note reason: As captain, ordered the execution of a scientist for possessing stelth armor (made with a core, which scientists can do) and also securing the RD's things when they were SSD. The scientists returned the items in question, but was still executed from what seems like solely the presence of stealth armor on them. Unavailable for comment, so this is a permanent ban to ensure what your side is presented in an appeal on the forums, as well as having been escalated from your security ban that indicates problems with the responsibility related to security. This execution seems to be a similar problem.
Time ban was placed: 2024-09-07 05:43:37
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 236982

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect
() - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
(X) - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:
First, I did not order their execution for taking the RD's things. That is a factually wrong statement. Security, mainly the HoS, told me that Abigail "looted" the SSD RD. There was some differing of stories here as the HOS's version of it made it seem like they take all of their stuff while Abigail maintained that she only took RD's headset and put everything else in a locker. I also think Abigail may have initially had RD's things but put everything back (but the headset) after I told them to over command comms. Anyway I told Abigail that if she returned the headset and the RD's things I would not have her arrested only subjected to a search. Escape shuttle comes and I do not know if Abigail returned the headset yet. I see she's still set to arrest but it's another officer that actually arrests her. I take her to brig and put her in a chair. At this point I have no plan on executing her, then I notice her reactive stealth armor. I will admit I fucked up here and maybe I shouldn't be Captain anymore because I thought the reactive stealth armor was an antag item. I was debating it out loud and said something similar to "that would warrant execution because you're an EOTC" and the detective I believe took that as an authorization and shoved a gun into her mouth and shot her, sending her into crit. Myself and the HoS immediately point out that I did not authorize it. Abigail is now in crit and because she's dying and I believe she's an antag, I decide to put her out of her misery and authorize it.

Now I'm not going to say I acted perfectly here but I have been genuinely trying to improve my behavior with the goal of eventually playing sec again which is my favorite role, so I've been going Captain. I did not want Abigail to get RR'd or killed and I ultimately had no plans on RRing her even for the reactive stealth armor. I did make a mistake by associating the stealth armor as an antag item but this was an honest, good faith mistake. I never play science, especially xenobio, and had no idea that was a legit armor that antags can make.

Adding to this was the fact that detective was pressing for it and HoS seemed to tilt in favor of it and I usually defer to my subordinates when I play Captain unless there's a dispute between heads. HOS was the main guy dealing with Abigail after we got the cult under control and I assumed there was just cause in addition to my erroneous belief of the reactive stealth armor.

I know my behavior has been bad and thats why i got secbanned but I genuinely don't think this is an example of it. I do not think I abused my power, rather I was malinformed of what an antag item is and was caught between a rock and a hard place because I had someone who I thought was an EOTC dying in shuttle brig (after the detective crit them without me giving them the go ahead) with 30 seconds left, so in my head I was like yeah they're an antag and they're dying, we don't have enough time to heal them, just finish them off.

I can understand why the admin did this because of my history but I would like to be unbanned and be allowed to play Captain. I do not think I am a particularly competent captain but i have been playing more of it recently since my sec ban and this is the first time I ran into trouble. This all happened because of an ignorance of mechanics, not rules, so I do think it is too harsh that I was banned. In the future if I think something is an antag item i will double check on the wiki or ask someone in sec before authorizing an execution.

[Pumpkin0]

Thank you for making this appeal.

Yeah, I'm willing to take the perma away - I just really wanted a way to talk with you - but I think a captain ban would be 100% reasonable. You've even mentioned that yourself - and I think there's a bit too much overlap between security and captain.

I am willing to unban you and throw a captain ban your way, and especially thank you for explaining your side. There was a lot of conflicting information that could only really be solved with your side of the story, and this all checks out to what I saw in the logs. You've also showed here that you're acknowledging your wrongdoing in the part of misunderstanding what made something antag items, especially on the MRP server, so I'm quite happy to unban you.

Thank you for understanding! I will unban you in just a moment and throw the cap ban on in a similar timeframe.

[Pumpkin0]

Unbanned!

[Festkongendk]

Okay thanks for the quick response.

One last thing; I eventually plan on appealing my sec ban and I am worried this will reflect poorly on that. Could you modify the note so that it reflects your Captain ban is merely an extension of my sec ban rather than something I specifically did wrong here? And also that I was banned due to an action I took stemming from lack of mechanics knowledge, not being too trigger happy or abusive with my power. Thank you.

[Pumpkin0]

I'll change it.

Banned from Roles: Captain permanently - Banned from Captain after an appeal where it was agreed that he overstepped his boundaries, mostly in regards to security. Mainly an extension of the sec ban. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37070

How does this sound?

[Festkongendk]

Can you change "overstepped his boundaries mainly kn regards to sec" to "made a good faith mistake in regards to what constituted syndie contraband leading him to authorize an unlawful execution"?

other thaj that its fine and u can close this, thanks again.

[Pumpkin0]

I'm not really comfortable with saying it's a good faith mistake. I wouldn't say that the behaviour here is perfect despite the mistake being one relating to what constitutes antag items.

Banned from Roles: Captain permanently - Banned from Captain after an appeal where it was agreed that he made another (minor) mistake in relation to authority roles. Mainly an extension of the sec ban. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37070

How does this sound? It's likely that it won't have any large bearing on your sec ban either way.

[Festkongendk]

Yeah thats fine, thanks!

[Vekter]

I confirmed that the note has been updated, so I'm going to go ahead and lock this up.