Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Discuss policies and candidacies with the potential Headmins.
Forum rules
Post a thread if you want to be a candidate. Must not be permabanned from the game servers or blacklisted.

Reply to a thread to interact with headmin candidates. Rules

Do not spam the same question in multiple threads, use the debate subforum for that.
Post Reply
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #740875

THE SECOND PLAYER HEADMIN

I am Ekaterina von Russland, queen of appeal peanuts. I also go by Marina Rudinova, self-appointed representative of the security officers' union. I am a certified coder and I wrote the wiki section on turning "boom" into science!

I am announcing my candidacy to become the second player headmin in the history of tgstation, following in the footsteps of the mighty kieth4. Other inspirational headmins for me include notorious goodmins Timberpoes and dendydoom.

Through this post, you will learn about my vision for the game, things I would like to implement, and the principles that will guide me should you choose to entrust me with this role.


Less bwoinking, more "IC issue"
We should empower players to make memorable stories. This can't happen if they are too afraid of being bwoinked to do anything fun. Enforcement must be broadly loosened up.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
I will make it legal to not know the meta and to not power the game.

Listening to the community
Wherever policy discussion is concerned, I intend to base my vote on the opinions and visions expressed by the players themselves, prioritising keeping the game fun for its players.

Protecting players from overreach
Some of you may already be familiar with my vision for the appeals process. I hold that players should be entitled to some core protections inspired by Roman Law. Here's one example:
Back when Kieth4 got noted for suboptimal gameplay, I asked:
ekaterina wrote: Are we going to need a headmin precedent for "you can't note people who didn't actually break any rules"?
Recent events on the station show that the answer is yes, and it is my mission to provide it. I will vote to overturn bans and notes not clearly and articulably based on the rules.

Encouraging opinion diversity
Only a handful of brave goodmins currently voice their opinions freely when they disagree with other admins. Thus, in seeking an end to the toxic environment of admins covering for each other no matter how insane a ruling may be, I will encourage following in said goodmins' example.

Mentors
I believe a mentor system would be beneficial for our community. The ahelp button is scary, a mentorhelp button is not. Admins shouldn't be scary and should be closer to the community, but it is also not the reality we have right now. A mentor system would also allow us to leverage the experience of players who have no interest in being admins and enforcing policy but want to help other players with questions about mechanics.

Appeals by toolbox
Each player who has received a temporary ban shall be able to demand a trial by combat and 1v1 the banning admin (or me in the admin's stead, should the latter chicken out), up to once a year, to commute his sentence.

Regular events
I will encourage admins and empower players to host more events. From simple things like Nations and Raging Mages once a month, to more unique and creative things yet to be conceived of!

Some of what I want to do will, naturally, depend on getting the support of at least one of the other two headmins, but I intend to do my part to ensure Kieth's project lives on, with my own additions and twists.
I am passionate about this game, and, together with my sponsors in Big Greytide™ and Big Threat™, and you, the community, I look forward to turning my project into a reality.

I leave you with a picture me and Kieth4, ready to adventure into spess:
► Show Spoiler
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
User avatar
TheRex9001
In-Game Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:41 am
Byond Username: Rex9001

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by TheRex9001 » #741519

Hey ekat! When it comes to listening to the community, do you mean the people on the forums, discord, game or all three? How will you go about it? When it comes to spirit vs wording of a ruling how do you stand? Is the former or latter more important?
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #741671

TheRex9001 wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2024 2:47 pm Hey ekat! When it comes to listening to the community, do you mean the people on the forums, discord, game or all three? How will you go about it? When it comes to spirit vs wording of a ruling how do you stand? Is the former or latter more important?
Thank you for the thoughtful questions!

In regards to listening to the community's opinions on proposals, while I think it is useful to listen to all three spaces, the game itself should be the primary source, through polls, for example. Many of our gamers just want to login and have fun without worrying about the forums or Discord, and their opinions shouldn't matter any less because of that. We need feedback from the people who actually play, regardless of whether they use other tgstation spaces. When it comes to new ideas, however, places such as the policy discussion subforum can be incredibly useful.

Onto your other question, this one gave me a lot to think about. I lean towards the wording, but I don't think the rule's intention is irrelevant. I don't think it is fair to punish players for conduct that strictly adheres to the wording of a rule, even if it goes against the original intention. At the same time, a player who may have gone against the wording but adhered to the rules' spirit should be granted leniency. I hold that it is up to the policy's author to make it clear and precise, not up to players to read the minds of whoever wrote any given policy and gauge its spirit. We all come from different backgrounds and may interpret ambiguous things differently. If its wording is not conveying the message it's supposed to with clarity, then it needs to be reworded.
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
User avatar
iansdoor
Joined: Wed May 19, 2021 2:49 am
Byond Username: Iansdoor
Location: Texas

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by iansdoor » #741733

I can see the torch going. unlike all the other headmin before they make their rulings and never really speak about such till the grey area situation happens.
I know you well, I do enjoy your consistency. Will you guide folks to update more of the past rulings and clarify more of the english terms that get taken granted?

Also, to point out that you take breaks and your viewpoint has always been in the other persons shoes in almost all cases, which isn't a bad thing. This creates conversations, some good, some alright, some are just peanuts.
An average yellow rock hater and the main reason you may get your shuttle recalled.
antropod
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:08 pm
Byond Username: Antropod

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by antropod » #742105

Appeal by toolbox is the strongest one, I would add a "choose your champion with low ping" to it
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #742555

iansdoor wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:18 pm I can see the torch going. unlike all the other headmin before they make their rulings and never really speak about such till the grey area situation happens.
I know you well, I do enjoy your consistency. Will you guide folks to update more of the past rulings and clarify more of the english terms that get taken granted?

Also, to point out that you take breaks and your viewpoint has always been in the other persons shoes in almost all cases, which isn't a bad thing. This creates conversations, some good, some alright, some are just peanuts.
Thank you for your kind words!

The answer to your question is yes. Old rulings that, through their lack of clarity or lack of specificity, cause problems in enforcement or in appeals should be updated with clearer wording, with the input of the original author, if possible. Rulings that have been rendered obsolete or incomplete as the game gets updated should also be revisited.
antropod wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 5:35 am Appeal by toolbox is the strongest one, I would add a "choose your champion with low ping" to it
I'm open to this! Before the actual implementation of toolbox appeals, it would certainly have to be expanded on with clearer rules, like who selects the type of duel, when champions are allowed and with what limitations, how many rounds the fight should have, whether there should be a timer and how long it should be, and so on. I think these details are best discussed after the headmin team is formed, and that it wouldn't be advantageous to focus too much on the details right now.
TheRex9001 wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2024 2:47 pm How will you go about it?
I'd also like to add that I started gathering player opinions long before the campaign season opened, while I was still thinking about running and preparing my campaign: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=36340
The concerns expressed by players in this thread helped shape some of the central tenets of my campaign, especially seeing that MRP players' concerns (at least those within the purview of a headmin) are quite similar to those of LRP players.
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #743457

I have been endorsed by the first player headmin 8-)
kieth4 wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:03 amEkat sweep
Vote for Ekaterina!
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
User avatar
RobloxDown2023
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:33 am
Byond Username: RobloxDown2021
Location: Brazil, Salvador

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by RobloxDown2023 » #743467

in short terms, everything i read makes sense and i agree with, specially favouritism and the mentors part, coming from a player who once had a perma ban for "false report" after getting their brains fried and eaten by a non antag for having hot air in a can, you have my vote

we need more serious admins and less :ugeek: "Serious..." Admins you know what i mean?
currently empty but gonna start filling it with funny prints soon! :ugeek:

traits:
i have no enemies
i like to help people in shifts
all my bans from manuel fr
im unrobust as hell
everyone hates me and im often bullied

fav song for no particular reason:

Not-A-Robusta Best Moment (Sec Officer) (Killed everyone in round end deathmatch):
Image

Teddy Greyson Best Moment (Chemist) (Accidentally exploded my gunpowder lab i spent 30 min making):
Image
User avatar
TheRex9001
In-Game Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:41 am
Byond Username: Rex9001

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by TheRex9001 » #743469

You talk about goodmins a bit in your thread, what is a goodmin to you? What makes an admin a goodmin?
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #743485

RobloxDown2023 wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:00 pm in short terms, everything i read makes sense and i agree with, specially favouritism and the mentors part, coming from a player who once had a perma ban for "false report" after getting their brains fried and eaten by a non antag for having hot air in a can, you have my vote

we need more serious admins and less :ugeek: "Serious..." Admins you know what i mean?
Thank you for your support! I know what you mean.
TheRex9001 wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:17 pm You talk about goodmins a bit in your thread, what is a goodmin to you? What makes an admin a goodmin?
To me, there are several things to what makes a goodmin:

First, being in it for the right reason, which is to make the community a better place; not for status, not to power trip, not to "put players in their place" because they have a legitimate playstyle the admin personally doesn't like.

Second, critical thinking and not caving to pressure. Analysing whether a ruling has merit based on logic and the facts of the case, not how many admins agree with it.

Third, not being afraid of publicly disagreeing with other admins when they make bad calls. Players must see rulings be scrutinised, and that admins are accountable, not a curtain of covering for fellow admins "just because".

Last but not least, they must, of course, be competent admins. They must know when to be lenient, go into an investigation with an open mind, not create a toxic space in ahelps, and so on.
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
User avatar
GamerAndYeahMick
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:17 pm
Byond Username: GamerAndYeahMick
Location: Quahog

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #743531

Honestly a lot of your thread speaks from having no experiential knowledge of the inner workings of the administration and it shows, if you were to be successful it would probably be better to purge any pre-conceived notions and enter with a more open mind, "loosening" enforcement that is already lax is just going to lead to NRP griefer station and won't really fly either, another solution to knowing if you can do something is to ask beforehand. Loosening the rules will only lead to more frustration with players not being able to get recourse through admins or in game means against people more robust than them when they're doing annoying shit that is "funny"
Image
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #743559

GamerAndYeahMick wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:23 pm Honestly a lot of your thread speaks from having no experiential knowledge of the inner workings of the administration and it shows
This comes across as nothing more than a cheap attack based on me not having a colourful name.
GamerAndYeahMick wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:23 pm if you were to be successful it would probably be better to purge any pre-conceived notions
I am not going to throw my experiences and those of other players in the bin. They matter.
GamerAndYeahMick wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:23 pm and enter with a more open mind
I agree with the general sentiment you are expressing here that, upon election, I should conduct an open-minded evaluation of the source and scope of the problems I've identified before taking action.
GamerAndYeahMick wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:23 pm "loosening" enforcement that is already lax is just going to lead to NRP griefer station and won't really fly either, another solution to knowing if you can do something is to ask beforehand. Loosening the rules will only lead to more frustration with players not being able to get recourse through admins or in game means against people more robust than them when they're doing annoying shit that is "funny"
It is not my intention to "loosen the rules". Their overzealous enforcement is the problem. Players are so afraid of being bwoinked that they avoid doing fun, unique things because they don't want to explain themselves to admins. Everyone's always playing it safe, and that gets boring. It's better to have players accept that they are going to lose the game sometimes than to have every round be a repeat of the last, because only the meta is safe from the bwoink.
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
User avatar
EuSouAFazenda
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:34 pm
Byond Username: EuSouAFazenda
Location: Brazil

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by EuSouAFazenda » #743689

ekaterina wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:31 pm
GamerAndYeahMick wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:23 pm "loosening" enforcement that is already lax is just going to lead to NRP griefer station and won't really fly either, another solution to knowing if you can do something is to ask beforehand. Loosening the rules will only lead to more frustration with players not being able to get recourse through admins or in game means against people more robust than them when they're doing annoying shit that is "funny"
It is not my intention to "loosen the rules". Their overzealous enforcement is the problem. Players are so afraid of being bwoinked that they avoid doing fun, unique things because they don't want to explain themselves to admins. Everyone's always playing it safe, and that gets boring. It's better to have players accept that they are going to lose the game sometimes than to have every round be a repeat of the last, because only the meta is safe from the bwoink.
Your proposal for this is adding more rules, more legalese and "Protecting players from overreach". How does this change the situation?
Players being afraid of doing stuff because they don't want to explain themselves to admins is a psychology problem not an administration problem. In fact, adding these protections might even worsen the situation as players could feel they need to know the rules like the back of their palm and to know which protections from admins to plead before doing anything risky. By doing this are you not increasing the bar of entry for people?

The problem is players don't want to be bwoinked; giving them more legalese they can wield mid-bwoink won't better the situation.
In fact, under a system like this why would anyone do a gimmick without first sitting down to figure out their anti-admin protections? If I want to do an engineering gimmick, for example, I'd sit down before entering the game, look up my player protections, check what protections I have and write down somewhere. That way when an admin bwoinks me for any reason I can just copy and paste "Protection A3 - I Can Do My Job Worse, Protection J7 - I Didn't Harm Anyone, Protection G2 - It was Funny, Protection H4 - No Rules Were Broken" and be scott free.

IE - we are adding homework for gimmicks and adding even more anxiety. Now if someone finds an oportunity to do a gimmick or roleplay mid-round they are less likely to do so as they have not checked their admin protections for that before the round and might get scared of being bwoinked and caught with their pants down. Think of it this way - the problem is players are scared of being bwoinked. Rather than proposing methods to calm the players and tell them that there's nothing to fear you instead opted to give them a gun and tell them that there is something to be feared and that they should be scared of big bad admins. That's escalating the situation, feeding the fear and paranoia of bad bwoinks rather than promoting a more casual enviroment.
I remade the beach away mission
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #743699

EuSouAFazenda wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:02 pm Your proposal for this is adding more rules, more legalese and "Protecting players from overreach". How does this change the situation?
Even though you misunderstood my positions, I thank you for your questions and the opportunity to elaborate.
EuSouAFazenda wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:02 pm Players being afraid of doing stuff because they don't want to explain themselves to admins is a psychology problem not an administration problem.
The "psychology problem" has not materialised out of the void. It's the result of players' experience at the hands of admins. Their interactions with admins shape their psychology around this. It is absolutely, at the source, an administration problem.
EuSouAFazenda wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:02 pm The problem is players don't want to be bwoinked; giving them more legalese they can wield mid-bwoink won't better the situation.
In fact, under a system like this why would anyone do a gimmick without first sitting down to figure out their anti-admin protections? If I want to do an engineering gimmick, for example, I'd sit down before entering the game, look up my player protections, check what protections I have and write down somewhere. That way when an admin bwoinks me for any reason I can just copy and paste "Protection A3 - I Can Do My Job Worse, Protection J7 - I Didn't Harm Anyone, Protection G2 - It was Funny, Protection H4 - No Rules Were Broken" and be scott free.

IE - we are adding homework for gimmicks and adding even more anxiety. Now if someone finds an oportunity to do a gimmick or roleplay mid-round they are less likely to do so as they have not checked their admin protections for that before the round and might get scared of being bwoinked and caught with their pants down.
The "legalese" is not intended to be wielded "mid-bwoink", it's meant to be wielded in appeals, and it's primarily intended to deter admins from making bad bans to begin with, knowing they'll be overturned. Players are supposed to know the core rules before they start playing on the server. Very specific rulings like your hypothetical protections A3, G2, so on, would be meant to guide admins not to bwoink players for things that shouldn't merit bwoinks. If players have to invoke it at all, that means the admin already messed up. I explore a related topic here: viewtopic.php?p=742197#p742197

Your idea that having more protections somehow worsens the situation for players is incomprehensible. Worst case scenario, it changes nothing. Best case scenario, it improves everything. The kind of player who'd look at the rules to find out whether something's allowed before doing it would currently not do it anyway, and the kind who wouldn't isn't going to start now. That player's just gonna do what he does, and he's gonna get bwoinked less.
It's also more reasonable to expect that they would ahelp "hey, is X allowed?", and, per above, the headmin rulings should guide what the admin does and doesn't allow. Since we're talking about permissive rulings, they clarify that things are allowed, not that only those things are allowed.
EuSouAFazenda wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:02 pm Think of it this way - the problem is players are scared of being bwoinked. Rather than proposing methods to calm the players and tell them that there's nothing to fear you instead opted to give them a gun and tell them that there is something to be feared and that they should be scared of big bad admins. That's escalating the situation, feeding the fear and paranoia of bad bwoinks rather than promoting a more casual enviroment.
Why would I tell players there's nothing to fear when there is something to fear? Our appeals are all public, you can look for yourself. I disagree with your assessment of the situation. You don't fix a problem of overbearing admins by telling players they're wrong to be afraid, you do it by making it so they have nothing to fear.
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
User avatar
RaveRadbury
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:41 am
Byond Username: RaveRadbury
Github Username: RaveRadbury
Location: BK ChatZone
Contact:

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by RaveRadbury » #743743

I like your energy a lot, good to see you participating in elections!

Would you mind sharing an experience you've had as a leader that you're especially proud of? (An OOC/IRL one, preferably. Keep it as vague as you're comfortable with.)

What does "compromise" mean to you?

What experience do you have with administration/mediation? (In a broad sense, not exclusive to SS13)
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #743755

RaveRadbury wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:35 pm I like your energy a lot, good to see you participating in elections!
Thank you :D
RaveRadbury wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:35 pm Would you mind sharing an experience you've had as a leader that you're especially proud of? (An OOC/IRL one, preferably. Keep it as vague as you're comfortable with.)
I prefer not to comment regarding IRL things, but I will gladly answer with an online experience!
It took place in a game not unlike Mount and Blade Warband: Napeoleonic Wars, where we had two teams of players facing off against each other, typically as disorganised masses, but, inside each team, you'd sometimes find organised bands. I was leading one such band, merely three, maybe four people. Our organisation made us so much more effective, and my leadership was seemingly so inspiring, that other players joined us to the point of doubling or tripling in size in a single session!
RaveRadbury wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:35 pm What does "compromise" mean to you?
Ideally, it means finding a sort of middle ground where both parties end up better off than they started, even if it means not being as well off as they could have been at the expense of the other.
RaveRadbury wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:35 pm What experience do you have with administration/mediation? (In a broad sense, not exclusive to SS13)
I have had the experience of being the head admin of a Discord server with members in the thousands, and of being a moderator for a forum not unlike this one.
Thank you for this question! Indeed, it might've been convenient to have mentioned that I have administrative experience earlier, just outside of SS13 :lol:
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
User avatar
GamerAndYeahMick
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:17 pm
Byond Username: GamerAndYeahMick
Location: Quahog

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #743773

This comes across as nothing more than a cheap attack based on me not having a colourful name.
If you feel attacked that's on you, and my name is blue like everyone else's, i'm telling you that you have an idea in your head without the full painting, it'd be wise to take that on board as things are not always as they seem, good luck with the election
Image
User avatar
ekaterina
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:40 am
Byond Username: Ekaterina von Russland
Location: Science Maintenance

Re: Ekaterina takes up the torch!

Post by ekaterina » #744925

My campaign™ has produced and distributed an official tier list and T-shirts :D
► Show Spoiler
I have a confirmed grand total of 1 merged PR. That basically means I'm a c*der now. 8-)
toemas wrote: ekaterina is really funny because they just consistently say what should be complete common sense (...) and then they get dogpiled by everyone in the thread
kinnebian wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am i agree with ekaterina but in a less aggressive manner
MooCow12 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:47 am I endorse everything ekaterina has said so far
sinfulbliss wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Jacquerel wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:31 pm
kinnebian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:13 pm ekaterina stops threads from becoming dogpiles (...) they just point out logical things to bring up in context of a ban and people get mad at them because they refuse to discuss it
when everyone goes into peanuts already set on what their opinion is ekat's posts are a breath of fresh air
might be more true to say they redirect the dogpile most of the time tbqh, like diving heroically onto a grenade
MrStonedOne wrote: Im gonna have to quote Ekaterina at you because they ended up saying this better than i would have
Image
warbluke wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:03 am Suboptimal research play detected, deploying lethal force.
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
BeeSting12 wrote: Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users