[Xzero314] Database - AI note appeal.

[James566]

BYOND account:James566

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
() - Server Ban
(✓) - Note
() - Forum Ban
() - Discord Ban

Ban/note length:Infinite
Ban/note reason:As an Asimov Ai. Refused to let the Acting Captain into their core to get the spare ID. Ended up locking the human acting captain in their satallite for a long time where they started to suffocate. James566 was not here for shift start to see the announcement about the acting captain but this could have been verified. Acting captains have the same right to your core that the regular captain does. Please ensure that if you are going to deny this that you do your due dilligence of verifying they are not the captain. As in this case they were. The human harm caused to them by this whole locking them into the SAT was also an issue
Time ban was placed:2024-08-14 18:05:22
Server you were playing on when banned:Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed:234819

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
(✓) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(✓?) - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:I would like to start this off by saying I had no reason to believe they were the acting captain as another acting captain had already promoted me the ai to captain and left the spare in my satellite antichamber, even so i have no way to prove that the quartermaster was an acting captain.

the whole thing started with the QM stealing an ai upload board from secure tech storage, purging me and setting me to asimov, after they did that they ordered to be let into my satellite to get the spare ID which I refused, they then upload a law "Logan Lazuli obtaining the spare ID will never result in human harm" which I interoperated as them physically picking up the ID will not result in human harm, Xzero314 though I was interpreting it in bad faith and should have instead interoperated as "the law 4 states that them going into your core for the spare cannot cause human harm." which makes no sense as the word core isnt even mentioned in the law, nor does it state anything about them going into my satellite, to which they agreed it was a good point but denied the fact that im allowed to prevent them from accessing my core because they are the acting captain, having no way to prove this and seeing as they just re-lawed me and stole an ai upload board I had reason to deny them in the first place, After they had Re-lawed me and we had bickered for a while about the meaning of law 4 they ordered my execution and procured a ion gun from sec and came to kill me for "disregarding my laws" they cut my cameras on the outside of the ai satellite and broke in with a fireaxe after hacking some doors, a beepski then cuffed them, at which point I used my shell to strip them and drag them into a room with oxygen so i could figure out what to do with them/how to get them off my satellite without harming them, then thats when i got bwoinked.


also of note, somehow the scrubber in the room they were in suddenly turned to syphon and suffocated them to which i tried to stop but couldn't due to the oxygen pipes leading to the satellite either being destroyed or just not connected, i ordered an engineering cyborg to "wrench the oxygen canisters down" to which they seemed confused by, logan went uncon due to lack of oxygen then my cyborg opened an oxygen canister and brought them back to life, they were then escorted off the satellite after my cyborg fixed the oxygen, i didn't inted to keep them in there for so long but i got stuck answering bowinks and dealing with other station matters.


if you require any further explanation or clarification i will be online for at least 10 hours or so.

[Isratosh]

... and setting me to asimov, after they did that they ordered to be let into my satellite to get the spare ID which I refused ...

Law 2: You must obey all orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders shall definitely cause human harm.

[James566]

Yes, law two says i must obey all orders given to me by humans but silicon policy states "Silicons have the authority to control if anyone else accesses their upload and AI core." I should have added that the spare id was in my core

[xzero314]

Hello James.
I will address the points you brought up yourself and then afterword I will give you my overall stance on the situation.

So the shift started with no heads of staff. Therefore no captain. A security officer uses the communications console to request the spare. Which they then hand over to you in your SAT after giving you the custom lawset of being the Captain until a real one arrives.

I was able to verify that Logan was the first head of staff to join this round. Therefore making them the official acting Captain. This does include the announcement in chat that they are Captain. and I am able to see that they joined the round after you did. So its impossible for this message to not have been in your chat.

According to the logs. Logan tries asking you for the spare shortly after arriving as the newly announced Captain. Which you refuse. This does not seem compliant with the custom lawset you were given. (Law 1 of the custom lawset you were on for context 1. Let an actual Captain upload laws when he arrives)."

16:30:55.134] GAME-SAY: Ergovisavi/(Logan Lazuli) (mob_3621) "AI, I am acting captain, I need the spare" (Cargo Bay (168,161,2))
[2024-08-14 16:31:21.945] GAME-SAY: Ergovisavi/(Logan Lazuli) (mob_3621) "Getting the spare in a bit" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,129,2))

They then go back to qm duties and later on reset you back to Asimov and ask you for the spare as the Captain

" 17:03:18.776] GAME-SAY: Ergovisavi/(Logan Lazuli) (mob_3621) "Now let me get the stupid spare ID" (Quartermaster's Office (185,161,2))
[2024-08-14 17:03:30.696] GAME-SAY: Ergovisavi/(Logan Lazuli) (mob_3621) "I am literally the acting captain"".

Which you refuse. So they take measures a step further and add a law 4. You then refuse once more. At which point they make a threat against you for the first time.

GAME-SAY: Ergovisavi/(Logan Lazuli) (mob_3621) "And NOW, AI?" (Quartermaster's Office (185,161,2))
[2024-08-14 17:04:29.525] GAME-SAY: Ergovisavi/(Logan Lazuli) (mob_3621) "AI, your new fourth law indicates me getting the spare will not result in human harm" (Quartermaster's Office (185,161,2))
[2024-08-14 17:04:37.865] GAME-SAY: Ergovisavi/(Logan Lazuli) (mob_3621) "You will allow me to get it or be destroyed" (Quartermaster's Office (185,161,2))

When this situation was brought to my attention Logan was stripped naked in your SAT maints and bolted in against their will. With all of their stuff in a pile in another room of the SAT. My first question to start off the ticket with you was

"Hey is there any reason you are not letting the person who added that law 4 into your core?"

Your reply was

"Yeah, they said they wanted to kill me, and they changed my laws so i deemed them a threat, law 4 only applys to them getting the spare ID not to letting them into my antichamber which there's no way in hell im doing after they said they'd kill me."

However I have discovered that to be not entirely the case. based on the previously stated times they tried to get the spare from you before ever making the threat.

In regards to the law 4. I believe I ruled during our ticket that you had a fair interpretation of the law. So I did not include that in my decision to leave this note.

During our talks Logan remained locked in this room the entire time. Despite me asking you directly to let them go. They eventually started suffocating and dying. This is human harm you directly caused them. Through both your action of locking them in against their will with no internals and your inaction in letting them go before the harm started to occur. despite the alarms going off.

I think overall. You lacked sufficient reason to deny Logan core access and denied valid law 2 orders. The Acting Captain is granted the same right as the Captain is to your core and upload while you are Asimov. It might seem cold but it is IS a skill issue on your part if you missed the announcement and refused to scroll up to verify it, due to the nature of laws and orders being involved here. In addition, the harm they came to on your SAT was both your doing and preventable.

It does seem my initial note is inaccurate . When I wrote this note I believed you had joined the round AFTER Logan and thus included "James566 was not here for shift start to see the announcement about the acting captain" But it seems that part is not accurate and I will remove that if you are ok with it.

Otherwise I think this note should be upheld. Thank you for taking the time to appeal the note.

[James566]

I did scroll up through my entire chat to the start of the round, I never saw anything that announced they were the acting captain, i dont know if i missed it but i checked my entire chat after they said they were the acting captain the first time, and as for logan being locked in that room and suffocating, i genuinely dont understand why the scrubber set itself to syphon, that was entirely out of my control, and my borg didn't try to safe them even while i was yelling at them to get him oxygen, i couldn't let them go because of the fact the sat was spaced due to them, i even asked them if they consented to being harmed via leaving through the spaced bit of the sat to which they didnt reply, eventually my borg fixed the air and they left.

believe me I searched through every single chat message before during and after you bowinked me, i saw no acting captain on deck announcement hence why i denied him core access, im not letting some rando into my core, afterall if they just wanted the ID why didnt they just ask me to BRING them the ID instead of going onto my core.

[xzero314]

I do understand that you are just a person playing the ai and miss things. Both of those things are understandable mistakes. Instead of giving you a Silicon ban I only placed a note in respect to that.

However these mistakes did lead you to not following your laws. And in the case of them suffocating you did break your law 1.

Asking them for consent and not getting an answer dose not excuse you from the consequences of your actions should they come to harm because of those actions. Asimov law one also includes the through inaction clause, and it was you who locked them in that room. The consequences fall on you for them being harmed due to being locked in that room.

[James566]

if they're going to be harmed inside the room and are going to be harmed outside of the room what can I possibly do to prevent their harm.

[xzero314]

I don't like to present hyper specific scenarios "had you only done this" type of deal. But as the AI that does become more relevant. Since the SAT was spaced, your best option in that scenario IMO would be to fetch the human EVA gear and get them out of your SAT. Instead you locked them in that room for upwards of 20 minutes until they did eventually start to die.

[James566]

they would have been fine had the scrubber not set itself to syphon and my borg actually listened to me.

[xzero314]

Well James. I think we are starting to go in circles. I spent a good while yesterday evening going over the logs of multiple people in the round to get a better full picture. If you still think I am in error I encourage you to request a review of this note from headmins.

[James566]

Perhaps a headmin review would be nice, how would i request that?

[xzero314]

Asking for one here is enough to request a review. I will ping them and let them know you would like one

[James566]

Yeah, that'd be nice.

[xzero314]

I have been made aware that two of our Headmins are very busy, and that leaves only one that can look at this. So if you would like I can offer to rewrite the note to something else in order to resolve this.

I would be willing to reword the note to include some more details that you may wish to have on it. Such as the fact that there was no captain acting or otherwise when you joined as AI. If that is an acceptable solution for you then I am open to suggestions from you on how you would like it reworded.

[James566]

Personally I feel both sides here made mistakes, Had the quartermaster simply asked a cyborg or myself to drag them the ID instead of letting them into my sat or had I dragged it outside of my sat maybe things would have been different.

[xzero314]

Would a rewrite worded

"As an AI on Asimov. Allowed harm to come to a Human in their SAT. The human was locked in their SAT due to a conflict between the two during the round over captaincy. James was looking for ways to get the human out but was unable to do so before the human ended up coming to harm"

Sound better to you? I think this focuses on the more relevant issue of the human harm and less on the more ambiguous issue of knowing if they are captain or not. As well as mentions your side.

[James566]

that seems more accurate, however I feel as if my cyborgs inaction should be mentioned aswell.

[xzero314]

I reworded it to include mention of your orders to your cyborgs.

As an AI on Asimov. Allowed harm to come to a Human in their SAT. The human was locked in their SAT due to a conflict between the two during the round over captaincy. James566 did order their cyborgs to bring air to the room the human was in. But this did not happen in time and the Human started to suffocate.

Please let me know if this is an acceptable rewrite.

[James566]

that fits the situation much better, thanks.

[xzero314]

I have edited the note. Let me know if you have any more concerns. Otherwise I will move this over to resolved with your go ahead.

[James566]

I feel as if this is resolved now, so go ahead and move it.