[WalterMeldron] lipino7 - Note quota?

[Hans]

BYOND account:

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
() - Server Ban
(.) - Note
() - Forum Ban
() - Discord Ban

Ban/note length: Permanent
Ban/note reason:OOC in IC: The emergency shuttle has been called. It will arrive in 10 minutes. Nature of emergency: guys i think the cult is gonna win any second now
Time ban was placed:2024-08-01 21:00:21
Server you were playing on when banned:Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed:233063

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(.) - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?: I dont really understand what do you mean by "Because you're implying that there's a win condition and implying that this is a game. Cultists don't "win", they summon nar'sie". The phrase I said definetly does NOT imply that this is game in any way whatsover. Since IC characters can know everything about antags it would be obvious even in IC that cultist summoning NarSie is them winning.

[Waltermeldron]

The point is that you shouldn't be using phrases and terminology that implies that you're actually playing a game. The phrase that 'The heretic is going to win' or 'The cult is going to win' is OOC in IC in the context and way that you used it. It's clear that you meant they were going to achieve their win condition and this is an OOC concept.

For the same reasons we don't let players call traitors, cultists, or any antag in general by the name "antagonists". It's also the same reason that saying things like "It's revs" is not allowed, because you're implying that the round mode or the summoned antagonist this round is 'revolutionary'. One of the key problems on terry right now is that this doesn't really get enforced enough and it slips through the cracks, but nevertheless, it's not allowed. It doesn't matter that you know they're able to summon nar'sie, the rules make it clear that you're not supposed to treat the game like it's a game when you're playing as your IC character.

I point to rule 3:

Keep IC out of OOC, and OOC out of IC. Your words and actions ingame should be distinguishable as an in-universe character, and not as a person playing a game. Playstyles that disregard all opportunities for engagement and roleplay can be met with administrative action. There is an exception for OOC in IC where terms like 'clickdrag X to Y, or look for the tab' is used to help a player.

[Hans]

Cult winning is an IC thing. They summon Narsie completing their goals, I think you can very much define that IC as them winning.

phrase that 'The heretic is going to win' or 'The cult is going to win' is OOC in IC in the context and way that you used it. It's clear that you meant they were going to achieve their win condition and this is an OOC concept.

Im not sure where you are going with that it doesnt really make too sense. Referencing Narsie summon definetly is not an OOC thing.

[Waltermeldron]

Im not sure where you are going with that it doesnt really make too sense. Referencing Narsie summon definetly is not an OOC thing.

You're allowed to reference the nar'sie summon. You're not allowed to speak as if you're playing a game. When you are in IC channels, you should be making an attempt to be a distinguishable in-universe character. If you had put any amount of effort into your announcement that wasn't just "cult is going to win", then we wouldn't really be having this conversation right now.

The problem isn't that you know cult is going to win and that you can't speak about it, the problem is that you're communicating it in a way that passes over the line of what would realistically be said by a character in the situation you were in. If you had said something like "cult is going to win over us" or "the cult will probably summon nar'sie soon", you wouldn't have any note and we'd be going on with our day without this appeal.

Again, rule 3.

Your words and actions ingame should be distinguishable as an in-universe character, and not as a person playing a game.

If you can just put more effort into any sort of captain's announcement or emergency call you make in the future as to not imply that we're all actually playing a game, then I'd be fine with that. I'm not sure what you're not understanding from that.

[Waltermeldron]

I want to also mention, we have precedent about this too, not specifically about whether an antag is winning or not, but about saying what gamemode it is.

Referencing the gamemode ICly - It's OOC in IC if you say something similar to "It's revs" but it's okay if you say "There is a revolution." Basically make it sound like you're not referencing the fact that you're in a round.

I'm just trying to get you to change how you speak so that it doesn't feel like you're referencing the fact that you're in a round, because your announcement definitely did not pass that test for me.

[Hans]

In no way is this unrealistic for a character to say.

[Waltermeldron]

I've said what I want to say and I'm not really going to amend this note.

There was additional context I could've mentioned here about how the cult really wasn't rampant and about half of the cultists were dead, which I didn't include in the note because it didn't seem super relevant, but in hindsight, it might be a good idea to include. It seemed like you were making a joke when you made this shuttle call and that the actual underlying reason was because you wanted to get off northstar as soon as possible.

game.log

[2024-08-01 20:48:04.064] GAME-SAY: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) (mob_3480) "ai when you can call shuttle" (Third Floor Fore Hallway (109,128,4))
[2024-08-01 20:55:01.893] GAME-SAY: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) (mob_3480) "ai why is the shuttle not called" (2nd Floor Fore Port Maint (100,111,3))
[2024-08-01 20:55:42.809] GAME-SAY: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) (mob_3480) "call it ai" (First Floor Aft Hallway (156,133,2))
[2024-08-01 21:01:43.485] GAME-SAY: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) (mob_3480) "who recalled" (Security Office (111,116,5))
[2024-08-01 21:02:41.877] GAME-SAY: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) (mob_3480) "did you recall hop" (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (101,129,5))
[2024-08-01 21:09:46.686] GAME-SAY: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) (mob_3480) "is it recalled again" (Captain's Office (78,136,5))
[2024-08-01 21:10:39.769] GAME-SAY: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) (mob_3480) "centcomm is recalling" (Captain's Office (84,135,5))

shuttle.log

[2024-08-01 20:49:50.131] SHUTTLE: Joeon/(ONE) has called the emergency shuttle.
[2024-08-01 20:49:50.134] SHUTTLE: Shuttle call reason: There are problems and we will run from them
[2024-08-01 20:59:08.434] SHUTTLE: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) has called the emergency shuttle.
[2024-08-01 20:59:08.437] SHUTTLE: Shuttle call reason: guys i think the cult is gonna win any second now
[2024-08-01 21:08:21.082] SHUTTLE: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) has called the emergency shuttle.
[2024-08-01 21:08:21.085] SHUTTLE: Shuttle call reason: I still dont trust this i dont like being on the same station as cult
[2024-08-01 21:42:08.487] SHUTTLE: Lipino7/(Hans Robert) has called the emergency shuttle.
[2024-08-01 21:42:08.491] SHUTTLE: Shuttle call reason: the cult is still persisting even if only slightly and the station is starting to look desolate

The cult was not winning over you, it was clear you were trying to come up with an excuse to get off the station as soon as possible. Ultimately, this context doesn't really change much because the problem is with the wording of what you said. If you had put in just a little bit more effort to imply that you weren't referring to the game as a whole, I wouldn't have had a problem with your shuttle call. Maybe it would've been worth including this context in the note to further justify why this note was placed, but it's too late to do that because it would make your note harsher towards you.

All I can ask of you is to change your wording and to put more effort into what you say so that it doesn't seem like you're a person playing a game, and we won't really have problems here. I'm standing by the note, you can ask for headmin review if you want.

[Hans]

I think a lot could be said to the context, but that isnt what this is about. So yes I would like a headmin review please.

[dendydoom]

hello,

we have voted to overturn this note.

the advice given here is welcomed in that thoughtful use of language can either reinforce immersion in the current RP or break it

we think that it's a worthwhile pursuit to hold higher standards for IC speech on the lrp servers, overt references to meta-level mechanics and aspects of the game should be discouraged and we would hope that players take the joy of playing their roles in-character to heart and do imaginative, funny things with it. without that personal exploration of these situations the game is little more than a clunky top-down counter-strike, but after deliberating this specific situation, we feel that there's enough ambiguity here that it doesn't remove enough doubt to determine that what was said was inherently OOC.

we recognize that there are both IC and OOC stakes to this situation when saying that the "cult is winning", and in addressing it in this manner, it could be seen as either. in that instance, for this one very specific situation, we've voted to take the best faith interpretation and believe the player when it makes sense to do so.

thank you for your time.