[DISCORD] grungussuss

[grungussuss]

Discord username:[/b grungussuss
Commonly used names: grungus
Banning admin: Gwyn
Ban reason: Spreading ethnic hatred is not tolerated here, you can ask to be unbanned in a month or appeal on the forums.
Time ban was placed: 2024-07-17- 17:00 [GMT+3]
Your side of the story: I was explaining why there is unfair prejudice against gypsies to another user and where it comes from and was mistaken for being racist or prejudiced towards them in polcon, then banned for 1 month without any warning.
Why you think you should be unbanned: "what value do you bring back to the community?": I currently have 43 Pull Requests merged to the /tg/ codebase and another open. I've only been timed out in the discord 2, 3? times? for minor things, I don't have many notes ingame and even have a positive note.
"Was your ban unfair?": I think my words were misinterpreted, I was going to explain why there is unfair prejudice against gypsies and where it comes from, not that I hate them or that they're correct in being prejudiced against them. I was explaining why people tend to act in desperate ways in poverty stricken areas. It's not a function of race but of circumstance but it's often prejudicially applied to race. I was in no way trying to justify it or make it seem acceptable.
I'd like to ask for at least a polcon ban instead or a ban that allows me to speak in coding-general and SFX-general instead, because I often talk there with other coders to discuss features, coding, SFX work.

[Archie700]

https://discord.com/channels/3268221442 ... 2196922498

[Vekter]

Relevant rule here:

11. Bigotry is not allowed.

Intentionally seeking to demean others due to their actual or perceived race, sex, gender, disability, orientation or the like is not tolerated. It is not our goal to create or enforce a list of banned words and instead our goal to eject the expression of bigotry from the community. Enforcement will be less PC based and more common sense based with that goal in mind.

This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]".

And our guidelines on when to apply Rule 11:

Bigotry - noun

big·​ot·​ry ∣ \ˈbi-gə-trē\

acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot


Bigot - noun

big·​ot ∣ \ˈbi-gət\

One who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance


When deciding rather or not to enforce this rule on a player, as well as how severe of an enforcement, please consider the following questions:

Are they expressing hatred or intolerance toward a protected group (race, sex, gender, disability, orientation (note: both majorities and minorities count))?
How likely are they to know that their actions/words are expressing hatred or intolerance toward a protected group?
Assuming they read and remember the rules, how likely are they to make the connection that their conduct is not allowed? (Not all of our players come from first world country with a culture that places an emphasis on promoting tolerance and sensitivity)
Have they tried to previously claim instances were accidental references but they just keep accidentally being a bigot?

It's ok to give somebody a warning or a lighter punishment at first and crack down harder if they keep it up.

And finally, remember, the goal is to remove the 'expression' of bigotry from the community, not to establish a thought crime against bigots, they can feel how ever they want as long as they can keep it to themselves.

[Gwyn]

I do not see any sign in the conversation that was had over both discord channels that you were trying to deconstruct or explain prejudice against the romani people. If that was indeed your intent, you went about it in the worst way possible. Opening up the conversation with "they stole my shit" and "there's a reason people dislike gypsies" is setting the tone for a very bigoted conversation.

You further claimed they would rob, kill and steal, and generalized other immigrants doing similarly. There's a clear pattern of overgeneralizing ethnic minorities as commiting crime and violence, and this is an unhealthy and bigoted way to discuss a complex topic like ethnic conflicts.

Vekter usefully pointed out our rules on bigotry. We can't mindread if someone is a bigot or not, and we're not convicting people of thoughtcrime. I gave you a ban based on the severity of how harmful the claims you made were. If you can show you understand how the statements you made were unfairly loaded towards romani and migrants as a whole, and could contribute to discrimination against them, I'm willing to lower this ban down to 2 weeks.

[grungussuss]

Yeah, I can see how my words were very direct and could set the tone of the conversation in a wrong direction, and that's on me. I should have taken more care to approach the topic in a sensitive manner, and I will definitely do so in the future if given the chance.

I don't want to contribute negatively to these conversations and make light of the situation of the Romani people, and the words I used were needlessly direct and insensitive. I'm not going to defend my words, just looking at them I can see how someone might find them offensive without knowing me and I don't want to let that happen and I certainly don't want to add to the prejudice. I can promise to handle these topics in a more respectable way in the future. I feel embarrassed about it and I won't let it happen again. Thanks for hearing me out

[Gwyn]

Yeah that's fine. I'll unban you, thanks for understanding.

[grungussuss]

Was able to join, thanks!