[DISCORD] ppr_mnt

[Pepper]

Discord username: ppr_mnt

Commonly used names: ANIMETIDDIES/Pepper

Banning admin: Omega_darkpotato

Ban reason: don't be a dick. Those ten people told someone by name to kill themselves several times each. That sort of behavior is intolerable and the defense/advocation for this to somehow be acceptable is absurd

Time ban was placed: 11/05/2023 18:04EST

Your side of the story: A large scale discussion was ongoing in tgstation-general regarding the 12+ controversial bans that have taken place in the last 48 hours. I expressed my disapproval of the bans as I believe that some of the players included in them provide a meaningful presence to the server as a whole. After the conversation had concluded, I was banned for 28 days.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I did not defend or advocate for telling someone to kill themselves at any point. Nobody is the sum of their mistakes - I am allowed to see the positives in people even if they do not always make the right choices.

Here's the message pointed to in the banning message.


Here I express that the broader consequences of the bans in question, including a headmin from the previous term, cause more long term damage to the server overall. I'm well within my right to observe and appreciate other players for productive reasons, even if they might have a spotty admin history. That's what I was referring to. No one in their right mind would construe telling someone to kill themselves as a "contribution". Omega_darkpotato is free to disagree with my position, but alleging that I was directly defending the actions that got these players banned has no basis in fact. Furthermore, the specific incident being referenced here unfairly paints a picture that I was referring to that specific set of bans in isolation. I was also referring to another ban that occured today that is completely removed from any incidents of telling others to kill themselves.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Here I express that the broader consequences of the bans in question, including a headmin from the previous term, cause more long term damage to the server overall. I'm well within my right to observe and appreciate other players for productive reasons, even if they might have a spotty admin history. That's what I was referring to. No one in their right mind would construe telling someone to kill themselves as a "contribution". Omega_darkpotato is free to disagree with my position, but alleging that I was directly defending the actions that got these players banned has no basis in fact.

You're free to appreciate users' past actions. I appreciate Keith4's work for the team back when he was headmin, even though I despise the fact that he joined in on the dogpile against Justice in round 218196.
What you're not free to do is Be A Dick, which is what you got banned for - saying that people are "hugboxing" someone for defending them against getting told repeatedly by multiple users to kill themselves is being a dick.
Nobody is "shooting themselves in the foot" by laying down the message that group, targeted harassment of any user, including our administrators, is completely and utterly intolerable. Joining in on the insults, claiming it was in any way justified?

Kind Of Dickish, If You Ask Me.


Also-

Furthermore, the specific incident being referenced here unfairly paints a picture that I was referring to that specific set of bans in isolation. I was also referring to another ban that occured today that is completely removed from any incidents of telling others to kill themselves.

Pretty damn sure that "the one admin you're all shooting yourself in the foot to hugbox" exclusively refers to that set of bans.
Hoolny was not "banned to hugbox" any admin, even in the most absurd of viewpoints.

Denied. You're entitled to headmin review if you'd like.

[Pepper]

What you're not free to do is Be A Dick, which is what you got banned for - saying that people are "hugboxing" someone for defending them against getting told repeatedly by multiple users to kill themselves is being a dick.

Disagreeing with a scorched-earth policy is hardly being a dick. I'm allowed to think that permabanning players en masse is a bit coddling, even if you disagree.

Nobody is "shooting themselves in the foot" by laying down the message that group, targeted harassment of any user, including our administrators, is completely and utterly intolerable.

You're entitled to your own opinion on what length of punishment is healthy for the server long term. Banning me for thinking we shouldn't be so iron fisted is ridiculous.

Joining in on the insults, claiming it was in any way justified?

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. I never claimed that what they did was justified, and you have yet to provide any evidence to the contrary. Please clarify what you mean?

Kind Of Dickish, If You Ask Me.

Pointing out that people are angry is not a full hearted endorsement of the outrage in question, nor does this have anything to do with me 'defending/advocating' for telling people to kill themselves. The kind of thing I was referring to is not exclusive to this instance, either. I believe it's happened before in unrelated events.

Also-

Furthermore, the specific incident being referenced here unfairly paints a picture that I was referring to that specific set of bans in isolation. I was also referring to another ban that occured today that is completely removed from any incidents of telling others to kill themselves.

Pretty damn sure that "the one admin you're all shooting yourself in the foot to hugbox" exclusively refers to that set of bans.
Hoolny was not "banned to hugbox" any admin, even in the most absurd of viewpoints.

Hoolny was banned today. I lumped them all together because the point of my message was to lament the loss of these players, not declare their innocence or endorse their activity.

Denied. You're entitled to headmin review if you'd like.

Considering you haven't addressed the ban reason at all in your response (Being a dick by defending/advocating telling people to kill themselves) instead opting to attack my opinion on the bans in the first place, I guess I have no choice but to request a headmin review. Omega- I ask that you reevaluate your position with a clear head as it's clear that emotions are running high for the community as a whole right now.

[Fikou]

Hi Pepper, we agree that comparing people's contributions to the person they told to kill themselves is undeniably dickish. It's an opinion that's unnecessarily mean towards them, and to people looking from the outside looks like you're glorifying that behavior, even if that wasn't your intention.
However, like with being a dick ingame, we don't instantly go to a month ban, so I think some leniency is fair here. We've decided that 2 weeks should be alright enough. Your timeout will time out on the 19th.
Fikou: I think 2 weeks is an ok time
TBM: i'm fine w 2
Cheshify: I'm fine with the month, glorifying people who tell others to kill themselves has no place in the community.