Advanced Blindness

[Capsandi]

When blind and restrained, or sleeping, remove all vision from the player, as their tactile sensation is removed
Getting your blindfold taken off and not knowing where you are because the window in 2*3 maintenance closet #178 is blacked out is radical
Waking up and not knowing you have a bomb in your gut is tubular
Waking up and not knowing the fellow dragging you by the roller bed is not the same as the one who opened a N2O canister in the hallway is tradgical
Waking up with a down-payment you didn't make and a woman who says she knows you and a truck that isn't yours is also cool

Now there is the issue of players staring at a black screen, uhh, discuss.

[Agux909]

When blind and restrained, or sleeping, remove all vision from the player, as their tactile sensation is removed
Getting your blindfold taken off and not knowing where you are because the window in 2*3 maintenance closet #178 is blacked out is radical
Waking up and not knowing you have a bomb in your gut is tubular
Waking up and not knowing the fellow dragging you by the roller bed is not the same as the one who opened a N2O canister in the hallway is tradgical
Waking up with a down-payment you didn't make and a woman who says she knows you and a truck that isn't yours is also cool

Now there is the issue of players staring at a black screen, uhh, discuss.

I'm all for full blindness. It's always bothered me how much you can see even when blinded or sleeping, it really takes away from the idea that you're helpless and truly in a void, it takes away paranoia.

Of course the problem here is that it would add nothing gameplay-wise, it'd only deduct from it, since the small aura of vision/awareness around you when you're deprived of your vision or sleeping, helps giving you the sensation that you're still part of the round, and that there's stuff happening in your surroundings. Shutting everything down would, as you pointed out as an issue, encourage people to ghost or close the game immediately after falling asleep from n2o, for example.

So I don't know how much of a good argument could be made for changing the current blindness. Yes, it's something that might irk you, me and maybe a few others, but gameplay-wise, what would this add to the game? Maybe if the sleeping times were increased and the void was replaced by something else, while sleeping or blind (aside from the "dream" text lines).

We need to answer this question before pretending that this is something that "should be in the game".

[EuSouAFazenda]

Of course the problem here is that it would add nothing gameplay-wise, it'd only deduct from it, since the small aura of vision/awareness around you when you're deprived of your vision or sleeping, helps giving you the sensation that you're still part of the round, and that there's stuff happening in your surroundings. Shutting everything down would, as you pointed out as an issue, encourage people to ghost or close the game immediately after falling asleep from n2o, for example.

So I don't know how much of a good argument could be made for changing the current blindness. Yes, it's something that might irk you, me and maybe a few others, but gameplay-wise, what would this add to the game? Maybe if the sleeping times were increased and the void was replaced by something else, while sleeping or blind (aside from the "dream" text lines).

We need to answer this question before pretending that this is something that "should be in the game".

You're asking the wrong question. Instead, ask:
What good does seeing 1 tile around you when incapacitated do?

Think about it.
Let's say your objective is stealing the HoS's gun, and it's with him. You incapacitate him before he sees you. You grab his gun and kill him. Later on he gets revived and because he saw you picking your gun from his body while incapacitated he goes and valid salad you.

Now the situation if the HoS couldn't see you when incapacitated. When he wakes up at medical he wouldn't know it's you, leading to an investigation to try to find it; the HoS can check the crew's bags, ask the people who was at the area at the time, activate the detective on the case, etc.


If you think "adding to the game" means "adding more sprites, codes or maps" you're not thinking like a desginer. There's a large list of situations that wouldn't be possible with the dead vision:
-> You could knock unconsious someone, steal their stuff and leg it without them knowing it was you
-> You could hop into the surgery room while the other doctor is away, sabotage the surgery and leave, framing the other doctor of doing a bad job
-> You can knock someone unconsious and drag them to some other part of maint, completely lost
-> You can knock someone unconsious and when they wake up they realize they're inside a glass box in the theater with the clown and 7 other people watching you like a zoo
-> You can knock someone unconsious and when they wake up they're in a monkey costume in the middle of atmos with a note nearby saying how "even a bunch of monkeys could do atmos better than you"

Basically, removing the unconsious vision adds a ton of clown and detective content. Clown content is always welcome and having more oportunities to do detective stuff as a detective is something the game genuinely needs more of. Removing unconsious vision adds a ton to the game.

[Agux909]

Of course the problem here is that it would add nothing gameplay-wise, it'd only deduct from it, since the small aura of vision/awareness around you when you're deprived of your vision or sleeping, helps giving you the sensation that you're still part of the round, and that there's stuff happening in your surroundings. Shutting everything down would, as you pointed out as an issue, encourage people to ghost or close the game immediately after falling asleep from n2o, for example.

So I don't know how much of a good argument could be made for changing the current blindness. Yes, it's something that might irk you, me and maybe a few others, but gameplay-wise, what would this add to the game? Maybe if the sleeping times were increased and the void was replaced by something else, while sleeping or blind (aside from the "dream" text lines).

We need to answer this question before pretending that this is something that "should be in the game".

You're asking the wrong question. Instead, ask:
What good does seeing 1 tile around you when incapacitated do?

Think about it.
Let's say your objective is stealing the HoS's gun, and it's with him. You incapacitate him before he sees you. You grab his gun and kill him. Later on he gets revived and because he saw you picking your gun from his body while incapacitated he goes and valid salad you.

Now the situation if the HoS couldn't see you when incapacitated. When he wakes up at medical he wouldn't know it's you, leading to an investigation to try to find it; the HoS can check the crew's bags, ask the people who was at the area at the time, activate the detective on the case, etc.


If you think "adding to the game" means "adding more sprites, codes or maps" you're not thinking like a desginer. There's a large list of situations that wouldn't be possible with the dead vision:
-> You could knock unconsious someone, steal their stuff and leg it without them knowing it was you
-> You could hop into the surgery room while the other doctor is away, sabotage the surgery and leave, framing the other doctor of doing a bad job
-> You can knock someone unconsious and drag them to some other part of maint, completely lost
-> You can knock someone unconsious and when they wake up they realize they're inside a glass box in the theater with the clown and 7 other people watching you like a zoo
-> You can knock someone unconsious and when they wake up they're in a monkey costume in the middle of atmos with a note nearby saying how "even a bunch of monkeys could do atmos better than you"

Basically, removing the unconsious vision adds a ton of clown and detective content. Clown content is always welcome and having more oportunities to do detective stuff as a detective is something the game genuinely needs more of. Removing unconsious vision adds a ton to the game.

I agree. That's a better question to ask and yes, it does add more paranoia and detective work in the end, even if it doesn't do so immediately to the one affected. As I said I'm all for this so +1

[Time-Green]

I have actually coded this on a downstream, by giving players dreams. People would be dropped in a dreamworld for the duration of their unconsciousness and could fuck around there while remaining completely oblivious to their surroundings
Was all fun and games until people started getting beaten up by dreamversions of people they knocked unconscious

A more bug-proof implementation could be made for /tg/ with a medium amount of effort, and could open the door to some of the stuff described in this thread while not boring the victims to death

[Farquaar]

I have actually coded this on a downstream, by giving players dreams. People would be dropped in a dreamworld for the duration of their unconsciousness and could fuck around there while remaining completely oblivious to their surroundings

I still wholeheartedly support this.

[Noodlecat]

I have actually coded this on a downstream, by giving players dreams. People would be dropped in a dreamworld for the duration of their unconsciousness and could fuck around there while remaining completely oblivious to their surroundings
Was all fun and games until people started getting beaten up by dreamversions of people they knocked unconscious

A more bug-proof implementation could be made for /tg/ with a medium amount of effort, and could open the door to some of the stuff described in this thread while not boring the victims to death

What downstream, I wanna look at the dream space stuff to see how it could be implemented.

[Agux909]

I have actually coded this on a downstream, by giving players dreams. People would be dropped in a dreamworld for the duration of their unconsciousness and could fuck around there while remaining completely oblivious to their surroundings
Was all fun and games until people started getting beaten up by dreamversions of people they knocked unconscious

A more bug-proof implementation could be made for /tg/ with a medium amount of effort, and could open the door to some of the stuff described in this thread while not boring the victims to death

I've always wanted for this to exist. A dreamscape in a shared z level that shifts every time someone joins, in randomized patterns. Then to prevent meta-info or people just beating each other, everyone perceives others as random mobs or characters, with speech being converted into something else or gibberish, and randomized interactions.

Depending on the interactions you have in the dream you could be waking up in an excellent or terrible mood

Edit: I'm also curious about the downstream this was implemented in

[Jonathan Gupta]

I like the advanced blindness idea, as a guy who knocks people out often it pains me to see them get up and try to beat the shit out of me(Also if this whole blindness were to be a thing you gotta remove the inventory UI while blinded(Only hands). This would make interesting scenarios and fun stories to tell(Also memories)

[Time-Green]

I have actually coded this on a downstream, by giving players dreams. People would be dropped in a dreamworld for the duration of their unconsciousness and could fuck around there while remaining completely oblivious to their surroundings
Was all fun and games until people started getting beaten up by dreamversions of people they knocked unconscious

A more bug-proof implementation could be made for /tg/ with a medium amount of effort, and could open the door to some of the stuff described in this thread while not boring the victims to death

What downstream, I wanna look at the dream space stuff to see how it could be implemented.

The implementation was quite poor, I was like 15 at the time and could barely code, but here's the old PRs:
https://github.com/yogstation13/yogstat ... /pull/2224 (basically just moving screensavers)
https://github.com/yogstation13/yogstat ... /pull/2392 (you can actually fucking move around and do shit)
https://github.com/yogstation13/yogstat ... /pull/2369 (same as above but the headcoder at the time made a new PR because I kept fucking up merge conflicts)
https://github.com/yogstation13/yogstat ... /pull/2622 (removal ;_; (Cringe warning))

The implementation was a big area, which varied, where you couldnt interact or talk but could walk around. Everyone was dumped in the same place but couldn't see each other. If you try something similair, I strongly suggest using something akin to cameras or AI eyes, because constantly moving around ckeys was really buggy (but was pretty fucking immersive fuck you floyd)

[RandumbPhantomb]

only when unconscious or restrained, but yes, this would be something

[Jonathan Gupta]

I like the advanced blindness idea, as a guy who knocks people out often it pains me to see them get up and try to beat the shit out of me(Also if this whole blindness were to be a thing you gotta remove the inventory UI while blinded(Only hands). This would make interesting scenarios and fun stories to tell(Also memories)

whos this handsome fuck?

[RedBaronFlyer]

RandumbPhantomb why on earth are you necroing SO MANY THEADS?

[Jonathan Gupta]

RandumbPhantomb why on earth are you necroing SO MANY THEADS?

they thought they had something to contribute on each I guess

[Capsandi]

It isn't a necro cuz' my threads are timeless