[wineallwine] cheeseromancer - debate on character name john maintenance

[cheeser0mancer]

BYOND account: cheeseromancer
Character name: John Maintenance

Ban type: as far as i know not actually banned, but was told i will be appearance banned if i play as john maintenance again.

Ban length: N/A

Ban reason: Note actually, but here copypasted straight from "admin remarks" in the ooc tab of the game:
2023-04-26 21:56:18 | Sybil | Round 204506 | Wineallwine | 440h Living Playtime

asked not to use the name "John Maintenance"

Time ban was placed: 2023-04-26 21:56:18
Server you were playing on when banned: sybil
Round ID in which ban was placed: Round 204506

Your side of the story: going about my shift, i became monkechanicus (augged all but my left leg and then injected myself with the monkified activator) bit after that BWOINK: "21:36:43: PM From Wineallwine: Hey! You're doing far too much OOC in IC. You can't reference OOC concepts like LRP, MRP in character. Also, the name John maintenance is too OOC for a name, can you pick a new one please?" upon seeing this, i talk with the admin a bit: "21:37:10: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: So stuff like wha i do is too bad for lrp?
21:37:44: PM From Wineallwine: yes, mentioning LRP or MRP IC is too bad.
21:38:24: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: ok then, but how is john maintenance bad? i have seen weirder names, and i have seen people on terry talk more ooc than me
21:39:56: PM From Wineallwine: John Maintenance doesn't sound like a real human name. I spend most of my time on Terry and I'm not sure I see humans with as OOC a name
21:41:22: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: bro, what, this is a universe where there is a clown planet, where there is sentient viruses, where you dont really bat an eye to a monkey getting their skull bashed in, i think john maintenance is a believeable name for this kind of universe"

after this, they dont say anything for a bit, then come back with this message: "21:51:16: PM From Wineallwine: Hey, sorry the server kicked me off. I'm telling you John Maintenance is not an acceptable name. If you'd like I can give you a note, and we can debate about it on the forums" (<-- what i am doing right now)

so the discussion continued: "21:52:00: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: im sorry but no, i am keeping john maintenance give me a note, i love this name and have not seen a single person besides you take issue with it
21:52:55: PM From Wineallwine: okay, I'm gonna check with some other admins and get a consensus
21:55:40: PM From Wineallwine: I've got at least one headmin who thinks your last name is unacceptable. You can either change it, or I can appearance ban you (makes you unable to pick your name)
21:55:58: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: one? how many did you consult?
21:56:37: PM From Wineallwine: I don't have to consult any of them. I did so as a courtesy to you"

i feel here they dodged my question a bit, but eh, rule 6 says "Incidences of admin abuse, negligence or disputed rulings can be taken to the forums. If an admin says something was 'looked into, handled, resolved' etc, regarding an issue, it is unlikely an admin will provide any further information. Admins are under no obligation to reveal IC information. Deliberately lying or misrepresenting facts in adminhelps will be dealt with harshly." so thats just me being a bit bothered by that i guess. also felt like he disregarded this "consensus" he spoke of but eh, only one person responded as you will see in the next part here, so not a big deal i guess.
anyway continuing the discussion: "21:57:16: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: you said at least one so i assume from your choice of words the amount you consulted is plural, now please tell me how many did you consult
21:58:07: PM From Wineallwine: I asked in admin-bus, which every admin has access to. One headmin replied, saying "Dumb last name."
21:58:36: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: thats it? he said it was dumb? thats it?
21:58:53: PM From Wineallwine: yep thats it. Please change the name.
21:59:11: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: dont see how thinking something is dumb equates to unacceptable, please tell me how that works" <---- i still do not get how thinking something is dumb = unacceptable.
continuing the discussion i had with admin: " 21:59:25: PM From Wineallwine: it's unacceptable. Please change the name,
21:59:49: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: bro can you please answer my question how dumb equates to unacceptable
22:00:12: PM From Wineallwine: the headmin didn't say it was unacceptable. I am saying it is unacceptable.
22:00:23: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: so headmin is fine with it?
22:02:28: PM From Wineallwine: There has been no official headmin judgement on it. Please change the name. If you do not agree to change the name I will be giving you an appearance ban
22:03:10: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: "21:52:55: PM From Wineallwine: okay, I'm gonna check with some other admins and get a consensus" you said you would get opinion of other admin, one head said it was dumb but nothing else from what you saying to me, and yet you say its unacceptable completey disregarding the consensus you mentioned, so im gonna take you up on your offer to debate on forums, as you said here "21:51:16: PM From Wineallwine: Hey, sorry the server kicked me off. I'm telling you John Maintenance is not an acceptable name. If you'd like I can give you a note, and we can debate about it on the forums"

and so here we are.
anyway, about the ooc in ic stuff, with saying lrp and mrp and such in IC chat, i admit in retrospect yeah thats a bit too far i won't do that anymore, but as is the main thing im making this appeal for, i want to keep the name "John Maintenance" and think it is not an ooc name, which is why i am here making this appeal.



Why you think you should be unbanned: Again no actual ban has been placed i was just told by the admin to post the "debate" within appeals, so here i am, but i will be saying here why i think the name John Maintenance is okay and why i should be allowed to have it.

The world of ss13, and specifically /tg/ station, is a really wacky one. an entire clown planet, cat people, talking sentient oversized rats that command a rat army, mimes having powers to make invisible walls, people not batting an eye at a corpse in the hall, etc. etc. you get it, the in-game universe is a pretty crazy one, and i think someone being called "John Maintenance" within all this craziness isnt exactly an unbelievable thing, and besides, i have seen names like greasy pete, carl johansnyaan and other such ones, and yet they still have those names, and i have not seen an admin with a problem with the name "John Maintenance2 until i was BWOINKED by wineallwine, so here i am, making this post.

Anything else we should know: no, but ill put what was talked about in the admin talk i had with wineallwine here again, this time without interruptions from my comments:

21:36:42: Wineallwine PM'd Cheeseromancer/(monkey (953))
21:36:43: PM From Wineallwine: Hey! You're doing far too much OOC in IC. You can't reference OOC concepts like LRP, MRP in character. Also, the name John maintenance is too OOC for a name, can you pick a new one please?
21:37:10: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: So stuff like wha i do is too bad for lrp?
21:37:44: PM From Wineallwine: yes, mentioning LRP or MRP IC is too bad.
21:38:24: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: ok then, but how is john maintenance bad? i have seen weirder names, and i have seen people on terry talk more ooc than me
21:39:56: PM From Wineallwine: John Maintenance doesn't sound like a real human name. I spend most of my time on Terry and I'm not sure I see humans with as OOC a name
21:41:22: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: bro, what, this is a universe where there is a clown planet, where there is sentient viruses, where you dont really bat an eye to a monkey getting their skull bashed in, i think john maintenance is a believeable name for this kind of universe
21:51:16: PM From Wineallwine: Hey, sorry the server kicked me off. I'm telling you John Maintenance is not an acceptable name. If you'd like I can give you a note, and we can debate about it on the forums
21:52:00: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: im sorry but no, i am keeping john maintenance give me a note, i love this name and have not seen a single person besides you take issue with it
21:52:55: PM From Wineallwine: okay, I'm gonna check with some other admins and get a consensus
21:55:40: PM From Wineallwine: I've got at least one headmin who thinks your last name is unacceptable. You can either change it, or I can appearance ban you (makes you unable to pick your name)
21:55:58: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: one? how many did you consult?
21:56:37: PM From Wineallwine: I don't have to consult any of them. I did so as a courtesy to you
21:57:16: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: you said at least one so i assume from your choice of words the amount you consulted is plural, now please tell me how many did you consult
21:58:07: PM From Wineallwine: I asked in admin-bus, which every admin has access to. One headmin replied, saying "Dumb last name."
21:58:36: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: thats it? he said it was dumb? thats it?
21:58:53: PM From Wineallwine: yep thats it. Please change the name.
21:59:11: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: dont see how thinking something is dumb equates to unacceptable, please tell me how that works
21:59:25: PM From Wineallwine: it's unacceptable. Please change the name,
21:59:49: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: bro can you please answer my question how dumb equates to unacceptable
22:00:12: PM From Wineallwine: the headmin didn't say it was unacceptable. I am saying it is unacceptable.
22:00:23: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: so headmin is fine with it?
22:02:28: PM From Wineallwine: There has been no official headmin judgement on it. Please change the name. If you do not agree to change the name I will be giving you an appearance ban
22:03:10: Reply PM from-Cheeseromancer: "21:52:55: PM From Wineallwine: okay, I'm gonna check with some other admins and get a consensus" you said you would get opinion of other admin, one head said it was dumb but nothing else from what you saying to me, and yet you say its unacceptable completey disregarding the consensus you mentioned, so im gonna take you up on your offer to debate on forums, as you said here "21:51:16: PM From Wineallwine: Hey, sorry the server kicked me off. I'm telling you John Maintenance is not an acceptable name. If you'd like I can give you a note, and we can debate about it on the forums"

[cheeser0mancer]

Bit of an addition: while this post in underway i will be playing as the character "John McAssistonce"

[WineAllWine]

Okay, first this appeal is denied but we knew that alreaady - the point of this appeal is to question naming policy.

I would also argue that the name "John McAssistonce" is unacceptable. Names shouldn't reference in-game concepts in my opinion.

There is one aspect of our ahelp that I'd like to apologise for: I shouldn't have divulged internal information about whether or not a headmin said this or that. I wholeheartedly apologise for that, and accept any punishment that entails.

I've notified the Head admins of this appeal

[cheeser0mancer]

i forgot to mention that i wanna have the headmins judge this appeal oops, do i have remake it and say i want headmins opinion on this?

[WineAllWine]

nope, I've notified them, they'll come and give an opinion at some time, it might take a while.

"The wheels of administration turn slowly. But they do turn."

[cheeser0mancer]

ok i just got an issue im trying to log in to sybil and it says "banned by host: reason: guests not allowed. please sign in with a BYOND account" even tho i am signed in to my BYOND account.

[WineAllWine]

ok i just got an issue im trying to log in to sybil and it says "banned by host: reason: guests not allowed. please sign in with a BYOND account" even tho i am signed in to my BYOND account.

that shouldn't be me. There's been some server issues, could you try again?

[cheeser0mancer]

nevermind it fixed itself by me quitting BYOND and going back in

[Timberpoes]

Here are my individual thoughts and don't represent any sort of joined team headmin ruling.

I replied to WineAllWine when they asked in the admin channels:


https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

Excessively OOC names fall under rule 3. Make a minimum effort to have your name fit in a setting involving a wacky space station in the future. A firstname lastname minimum is required for humans and felinids; other species may instead choose to use the default names assigned to them, such as those given through random names, or otherwise any name that is species-appropriate. Honorifics and nicknames are allowed as long as only one additive is used at a time, i.e "James Williams Jr." or "James "One-Eye" Williams". Admins may get involved if your name is dumb and can approve or disallow names at their discretion while in-game.

I was directly referencing that highlighted part of our naming policy in that wording.

Said policy has a very fuzzy line where "wacky space station in the future" allows for fantasy names and combinations you probably wouldn't find in real life. It allows for puns and cunning word plays.

Pepper Oni. Don Keedix. Gay Johnson. Beautiful, beautiful names. Utterly inspired. Totally fit within a wacky speace station in the future.

To me, a name like John Maintenance is an "I'm not even trying to pretend that tgstation's LRP servers aren't NRP and I'm doing my own unique part to drag it down to that level" tier of name. It's not only below minimum effort, it's no effort.

I'd be fine for you to use it when you roll Clown, Mime, Wizard or Nukies that have intentionally more relaxed naming policies and are intended for players to be able to express their inner shitpost in a more in-universe way.

[cheeser0mancer]

To me, a name like John Maintenance is an "I'm not even trying to pretend that tgstation's LRP servers aren't NRP and I'm doing my own unique part to drag it down to that level" tier of name. It's not only below minimum effort, it's no effort

ok i agreee with names like pepper oni and don keedix being great and funny names, but seriously? john maintenance being what you described it as? hurts my feelings, and at no point did i even have any thoughts like what you described john maintenance name being a tier of, like i actually felt it was a cool and witty name, but i guess thats subjective.

[cheeser0mancer]

also the game is still telling me the guest banned by host thing and its 1 am where i am, and im tired so ima go to sleep, will prob be active again 14-16 hours from now (i havent slept in a day, i have been fuelled by monster energy for the past 48 hours, i look like a crackhead in the mirror)

[WineAllWine]

also the game is still telling me the guest banned by host thing and its 1 am where i am, and im tired so ima go to sleep, will prob be active again 14-16 hours from now (i havent slept in a day, i have been fuelled by monster energy for the past 48 hours, i look like a crackhead in the mirror)

Have a nice sleep!

[cheeser0mancer]

ok so now im awake again, hello hi, and i from here i assume i just wait on a headmins official opinion on this?
edit: hurray game works now

[cheeser0mancer]

update, i am now appearance by the trial corbun-whatever the fuck cause he cant handle a trialmin joke during an ahelp where i asked him what he thought were acceptable names. didnt even use the names he said not to do and just appearance banned me permanently, and additionally banned me for one hour telling me to "cool off" even though at no point in the ahelp (until he announced to me that the was gonna appearance ban and 1 hour ban me) was i angry.

uaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh aaaaaaaaaaaaugh dsuiognvpuaitagh

[cheeser0mancer]

this must be how the jedi felt when they got order 66'ed fr fr

[WineAllWine]

update, i am now appearance by the trial corbun-whatever the fuck cause he cant handle a trialmin joke during an ahelp where i asked him what he thought were acceptable names. didnt even use the names he said not to do and just appearance banned me permanently, and additionally banned me for one hour telling me to "cool off" even though at no point in the ahelp (until he announced to me that the was gonna appearance ban and 1 hour ban me) was i angry.

uaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh aaaaaaaaaaaaugh dsuiognvpuaitagh

The ban you're talking about has expired. I'm not a fan of how that was handled given this is an ongoing appeal. It can take a while for headmins to get through to these.

I'm going to ask that other admins don't get involved in this until it's resolved. In the meantime, you can use the name John Maintenance

[kieth4]

Let's see if we can come to some kind of compromise without us having to review this. Is there no world in which you'll change your name, can you think of nothing else?

[Timberpoes]

They're currently perma appearance banned by another admin for taking the mickey in an ahelp that was trying to figure out the more appropriate as-close-to-inappropriate-as-possible name, so the point is somewhat moot right now.

[kieth4]

[cheeser0mancer]

i made a trialmin joke and the trialmin was so unbelieveaby balled on by my superior sense of humour that they felt cornered by my sheer sigma energy and banned out of panic. IM JUST BUILT DIFFERENT FR FR

[cheeser0mancer]

anyway jokes aside in the note they gave (which they made a !!! note like for real come on you use !!! for like murderboning and that level of shit) here is the copypasted note for the appearance one i speak of


2023-04-27 16:22:02 | Sybil | Round 204553 | Conrad Thunderbunch | 441h Living Playtime


Banned from Roles: Appearance permanently - Ahelped to ask about suitable names. After having options "John McMaint", "John Maintson" and "Gray T. Ide" refused, proceeded to discuss in circles about it, refusing suggestions and advice from other admins I consulted with. Decided to stand his ground. I don't think they'll be able to reach a middle ground.

side note, they didn't think of john McMaint, i did, i suggested as a name shortly after the trialmin joke that utterly decimated their fragile trialmin ego and made them have ww2 flashbacks of their dad going out to buy milk, actually within the same message of the trialmin joke i came up with the John McMaint name, so weird taking credit for the name I CAME UP WITH (shame on you conrad thundercock), also the Gray T. Ide name although they also say this was an option during the ahelp i started they said it was back, im getting mixed messages here conrad do you like the name "Gray T. Ide" or not? additionally, if my only marginally better than gold fish memory states they were gonna end the ahelp because "it was getting to the point they had to scroll" and then i made the trialmin joke (take this with grain of salt i have only a marginally better memory than a goldfish as stated previously), mind you the round was still on going they didnt have to round end delay or anything shuttle wasnt even called, dunno if an ahelp being long is a reason to end it with "do what i want or i smite you ree" and if it is tell me. additionally and the only name here he actually came up with was john maintson, smh.

this message may appear somewhat snarky and your damn right it is i have decided to mix jack daniels and monster energy together and i am fully convinced that i could fist fight a tiger that knows martial arts and win right now, in short i am in a state best described as WAAGAGAGGAA REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE NYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM DFSKZGJBHGJKOSIYFBIOTG

[Timberpoes]

I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.

[cheeser0mancer]

whats a trial player

[Timberpoes]

A miserable pile of notes.

[conrad]

I would comment, but I am still shellshocked from the sheer sigma grind energy and endless flashbacks from my dad getting milk (he'll be back soon). I believe I should wait for the resolution of this appeal, before discussing the appearance ban, which should be done in a separate appeal anyway, as to not hijack this thread.

[cheeser0mancer]

also kieth yes i was willing to go with john mcmaint but as you saw in my previous previous post conrad thunderbunch perma appearance banned me, and i am mad about it, i just played a round and was forced to be a moff, thank god i trammed myself and based miner summoned a elite lavaland mob and made portal to station and killed himself shortly after, killing everyone as a herald was quite therapeutic.

[cheeser0mancer]

anyway conrad do what timber said you betrayer of your own word smh

[Vekter]

also kieth yes i was willing to go with john mcmaint but as you saw in my previous previous post conrad thunderbunch perma appearance banned me, and i am mad about it, i just played a round and was forced to be a moff, thank god i trammed myself and based miner summoned a elite lavaland mob and made portal to station and killed himself shortly after, killing everyone as a herald was quite therapeutic.

It's generally considered to be within an admin's rights to punish you harder if you're being rude to them.

Asking for another admin is also against the rules, even if you're talking to a trial admin.

[cheeser0mancer]

Asking for another admin is also against the rules, even if you're talking to a trial admin.

i dont remember ever asking for another admin during my ahelp with conrad tho? seriously where do you guys get this stuff

edit/addition: making a trialmin joke, and in my opinion not a very insulting one (if i remember correctly didn't even use any bad language within the trialmin joke but goldfish memory here so say if im wrong and i did) and not personally insulting the admin themselves, i'd personally give this a insult severity rating of 4/10 could be more insulting

[iamgoofball]

Asking for another admin is also against the rules, even if you're talking to a trial admin.

just wanna clarify here, asking for a different admin isn't against the rules as that would imply our players are supposed to pretend admins are not human and thus incapable of bias

waiting for the other admin to look away and then intentionally trying to find another admin who isn't aware of what the last admin said is what's actually against the rules

see: headmin rulings exact text on the wiki:

Admin shopping is defined as going to different admins until you get a favorable ruling. It's highly frowned upon, don't do it.

source: i wrote the policy thread that got the adminshopping ruling made

[cheeser0mancer]

I still don't see the relevancy of this to the appeal as i never once asked for another admin, so are you saying this as a friendly reminder or something else?

[Vekter]

I still don't see the relevancy of this to the appeal as i never once asked for another admin, so are you saying this as a friendly reminder or something else?

I can't respond to this in an effective way without breaking peanut rules. I misconstrued your "joke" about Conrad being a trial admin as an attempt to ask for another admin.

Asking for another admin is also against the rules, even if you're talking to a trial admin.

just wanna clarify here, asking for a different admin isn't against the rules as that would imply our players are supposed to pretend admins are not human and thus incapable of bias

waiting for the other admin to look away and then intentionally trying to find another admin who isn't aware of what the last admin said is what's actually against the rules

see: headmin rulings exact text on the wiki:

Admin shopping is defined as going to different admins until you get a favorable ruling. It's highly frowned upon, don't do it.

source: i wrote the policy thread that got the adminshopping ruling made

You are correct, I misconstrued what cheese was saying.

[cheeser0mancer]

ok anyway lets forget about the conrad stuff and concentrate on this appeal now, ill do the appeal on the appearance ban placed by conrad once this one is over (as conrad said, to not hijack this appeal, but thats kinda already happened at this point so rip i guess)

[cheeser0mancer]

anyways continuing the appeal in the peanut post people made about this appeal i think sinfulbliss, necromanceranne made pretty good points for me that im gonna steal borrow.

Pointless to be honest. Maintenance could very well be a last name for a spaceman that’s worked in several generations in maintenance, sorta like “Carpenter” or I don’t know “Smith” except the spaceman equivalent.

I really don’t find the name excessively OOC personally.

There is a 550 year gap between the in-game date and present date. A similar time gap between when those names came into common use and today.

Best not assume history is a continuous development forward and upward from point A to B, but more of a wibble-wobble of innovation and decline, varying throughout the globe. And, in the hypothetical future of living in space, galactic scale variance of circumstance could result in this practice re-emerging. Especially with the advent of cloning tech and temporal weirdness.

Ok i will now tell you the lore of my john maintenance character's name that i totally did not just come up with on the spot i swear:

Over the span of 500 years, as humanity reached space, in their space stations, there were people who largely worked in maints, over the generations, much like how in olden times people who were blacksmiths got the last name "smith" and those who were carpenters got the last name "carpenter" etc. some of those people who worked in maints and maintenance related jobs eventually, somewhere in the period of 500 years, ended up having their surnames become things like "maintenance", "McTide", "Tecchie" and "Engin", as a large number of those who scoured the depths of maintenance worked in the position of assistant, and other jobs who may go through maints often, such as cargo techs and engineers.

A vast majority of these people who got these maintenance related names may have been nameless clones who were created when cloning technology was still being experimented with, and those who through teleportation, time, bluespace or other such types of incidents involving these mentioned, may have by odd space shennanigans ended up with lost memories and given themselves new ones, ended up having the timeline messed with so they ended up wit different names, or other such happenings ended up with these maintenance related names

[cheeser0mancer]

also refer to this passage from the regal rat tg wiki page that i copy pasted https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Regal_Rat

"According to all known laws of station engineering, maintenance should not exist. Stations constructed during humanity's initial bout into the stars had their power grid and ventilation systems laid completely under the floors of their hallways, a fact corroborated by the excavation of ancient stations. The reason for their sudden, and continued ubiquity is unknown. Extensive cataloguing by Nanotrasen historians have demonstrated that power grid security does not increase with the presence of maintenance, rather, it decreases due to the ease of deployment and concealment of some Syndicate devices.

Nonetheless, maintenance continues to be a signature feature of Nanotrasen stations. The reasons behind this are unknown. Leaked documents of questionable validity have asserted that Nanotrasen engineers have been afflicted with a madness, persay, of maintenance construction. Even when the dimly lit, cramped, safety hazards of the corridors are not specified on design documents, even when supervisors are posted (who also, inevitably, no matter how noble or steadfast their character, succumb to believing that maintenance corridors are a necessary part of the station), even when stations are built by machine intelligences, all Nanotrasen stations uniformly maintain the common characteristic of maintenance linking the various departments of the station.

The document offers few hints of what may drive these delusions. It details the sometimes obsessive habits of Assistants on Nanotrasen payroll to mill about, doing nothing in particular within the confines on maintenance. It cites statistics, highlighting how the frequency of murders, muggings, eldritch activities, and xenobiological contamination increases from anywhere between threefold and tenfold within maintenance as compared to the regular hallways of the station. It highlights how creatures, their home planets often separated by thousands of parsecs, have spontaneously manifested within the premises on one Nanotrasen station's maintenance.

As for the cause? It's left up in the air, but recent developments have shown assistants making sacrifices to the "maint gods", with common invocations being for "dies of fate", "skeletal trombones", and "tabling armor". Most concerning of all, some of these prayers appear to have been answered. And as of late, the piles of trash that accumulate seem to have been stirring..."

This passage, which is the first passage that is in the regal rat/rat king wiki page also suggests that maintenance is some kind of supernatural force, and that it may even be a creation of "maint gods", or some other kind of divine and/or demonic influence, so whats not to say that there are also cults about maintenance that when you enter, you must change your surname, or even your entire name to something related to maintenance, as to "be closer to the gods of maintenance" i don't know about you but this sounds like something a cult would do, forgetting about your past self and becoming more focused on whatever your cult/religion is related to, any TLDR: Maintenance is some kind of super natural force and thus i think it wouldn't be weird for those whose ancestors or they themselves have interacted or have even been apart of groups who come into close contact with this supernatural stuff may have their names be altered, through them changing it themselves or through super natural means.

[cheeser0mancer]

also when i do the conrad appeal (mentioning that again, even though i said lets forget about it for now, augh) im probably gonna copypaste some of the above stuff i just talked about into there because i think its some good points.

[cheeser0mancer]

John is literally one of the most common names in the world, is it that odd to see a john?

[Pumpkin0]

If the problem is with it being adjacent to the 'John Fortnite' 'John Ultrakill' 'John X' kind of memes, maybe a first name change would work wonders here? Bruce Maintenance would be a cool name.

[cheeser0mancer]

alright so, the whole "John X" meme is because, as i said, its one of the most common names of the world, so i personally think it being just a normal common name is higher priority than the whole John X meme, but i am willing to change the first name a bit as long as its still very close to john, as i have been playing with the john maintenance for a good bit now (around 2 months if my fucked sense of time is correct) so some people recognise me within sybil.

[kieth4]

This appeal has become an absolute fucking mess so let's sweep this up and deal with it. I will reach out to both admins who are involved and get this sorted out. If you are uninvolved stop commenting.

[cheeser0mancer]

Dayum right kieth, fuck it lets go for a 2 page appeal fr fr

[conrad]

Ok, so Kieth4 has requested that I take over, momentarily, on this appeal, since the appearance ban I placed kinda renders wine's note moot. Whenever I say "you" in this post, I mean cheeseromancer, by the way.

I'm gonna post the ahelp in its entirety, and comment on it later.

First, here's the ahelp. It's big, so I'm putting it behind a spoiler tag.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

whats a better name, John Maintenance or Gray T. Ide
cheeseromancer ➡ Admins
2023-04-27T15:37:24
Both of those names are awful. Your current name is actually cool.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:38:07
bruh Gray T. Ide tho
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:38:35
Names that are very blatantly "Inspired By The Videogame" with no rhyme or reason are tagged as NRP, hence why they are bad. It's like being called "Steve President" in real life.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:39:18
and by awful do you mean awful in a funny way or like awful awful
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:39:31
Awlful awlful. John McTide is still bad, but it's funny.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:40:17
how is john mctide diff from gray t. ide if anything i think gray t. ide is better cause its like a play on words
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:40:46
mind you a really shit play on words but still
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:41:03
'cos McTide is a beliavable name. I think of a fancy scottish gentleman. Gray T. Ide just stinks of lazy.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:41:42
ok i guess this is a matter of opinion then, since i personally think just putting mc before tide is lazier than gray t. ide, and personally like gray t. ide more since its within the realm ofpun names like pepper oni and gay johnson
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:43:14
It's a combination of factors. A name that's awful, lazy and way too inspired by the videogame gets tagged as NRP. John McTide is an actual real name, it's absolutely fine. What do you think of, say, Grayson McTider?
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:45:26
WAIT ACTUALLY THERES A REAL GUY CALLED JOHN MCTIDE?
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:45:51
Not John, but Mary, which means McTide is an actual IRL family name.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:46:26
bruh
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:46:37
you fucking bamboozled me for a sec there shame on you
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:46:49
I'm not even joking, totally real
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:48:43
bruh lmao
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:49:13
also is what you said about gray t. ide your personal opinion or admin stance?
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:50:20
Ok, so, that's tricky. It's just "my opinion". What I am saying is, by definition admin stance. But, that being said, I checked. General admin stance is that it's awful. Don't use it.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:55:34
I mean't to say "it's NOT just my opinion" but I ate words lmao, soz
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:55:51
ate your words? so admins actually said its ok?
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:56:16
No no I mean that I mistyped lmao. Forget what I said. It's both my stance, the rules as written and, for good measure, the stance of other admins.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:57:05
so how about John ''Gray'' T. Ide?
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T15:57:31
The issue is with the "T. Ide" bit. Also the smack to the face "Gray" in the middle of it. I suggest embelishing that part, instead of just adding "john" to it.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T15:59:35
so john ''john'' T. Ide?
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:00:00
Are you being serious?
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:00:53
no you said add a ''john'' to it i thought thats what you meant
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:01:18
I meant making it beliavable, RATHER THAN just adding John in front of it. Johnny Tiderson, Greyson McTide, those are names that are beliavable. T. Ide is...painful to look at, not my words.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:02:58
well i feel that t. ide is within the same realm as tiderson tho
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:03:32
I'm afraid that it's the consensus with admins that it doesn't fall even within the standards of LRP for names.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:05:12
hm well fug
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:05:26
so how about john McMaint?
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:05:36
Hm, how about John Maintson?
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:07:20
John McMainteNICE
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:09:00
Ok the ticket is starting to create a scroll wheel on my screen. I want you to either settle with John McTide, which is fine, or take one of the names I suggested. I think I'm being pretty generous here.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:11:58
minor issue: TRIALMIN HAHA NO AUTHORITY HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA LOL DEEZE NUTS#so ima go with john mcMaint that okay?
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:13:15
Right, so first I would like to thank you for this ticket! It's massive, so I can now parade it as a sign of pride. Also, yeah, it seems we're heading nowhere. So I'll be applying a permanent appearance ban on you. Also, it seems you need to cool off some, so I'm gonna give you an hour for that.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:17:58
BRUH
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:18:14
BRUH THE FUCK
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:18:21
IM ASKING QUESTION AND JOKING A BIT AND YOU BAN ME THE FUCK BRO
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:18:44
Conrad Thunderbunch/(Ricky Paxton) has created a permanent role ban from 1 roles for Cheeseromancer.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:21:57
i hate you so much
cheeseromancer ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-04-27T16:22:20
Client disconnected
➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:24:48
Conrad Thunderbunch/(Ricky Paxton) has created a temporary 1 hour server ban for Cheeseromancer.
conradthunderbunch ➡ cheeseromancer
2023-04-27T16:24:48
Resolved by Conrad Thunderbunch
conradthunderbunch ➡ Admins
2023-04-27T16:24:48

Let me explain why I placed both of the bans.

The appearance ban was placed due to the fact that we couldn't agree on a name. Granted, I did suggest John Maintson, which I regret since it's still dogshit, and it's almost the same as John McMaint. When pressed for a name, you went with the trialmin joke.

I think it's more than reasonable, considering the ahelp lasted 45 messages, and about 50 minutes, that when you dropped the trialmin joke when pressed to pick a name, combined with the fact I was well aware of this appeal at the time (remember dude, admins talk), I simply assumed you were trolling and wasting both of our times. I believe I was more than generous with that ahelp, as we spitballed names for almost an hour to try and help you get something that worked. That's why I placed the hour server ban.

See this appeal for something very, very similar (and quite recent).

I am more than willing to lift the appearance ban, if you can come up with a character name that isn't awful, as we discussed in the beginning of the ahelp. Names you yourself have used or suggested that I am more than satisfied with are Mickey "Main" Terrrance, Graham Tideron and John McTide.

If the concern is brand recognition on Sybil, I'm even willing to go with Johnny Maintenance since that sounds like a kickass rockstar-turned-wageslave stage name.

Bear in mind, I'm not gonna sit here and spitball names again. You managed to make a complete fool out of yourself in this appeal in my view, and I lost interest in this. So if you're gonna come up with a name, you better stick with it and put the matter to bed if you want this appearance ban lifted. This is especially true due to adminshopping. You're not being clever going after a trialmin when an admin notes you. Here is the headmin ruling if you need a reminder.

[cheeser0mancer]

Ok,
1. ADMINSHOPPING? WHAT? ?????????????????????????????????
2. i just wanted to see names i could use while the wine appeal was going, so i asked in ahelp, and you responded
3. dunno about this, its prob admin discretion since nigh fucking everything is on ss13, but i feel you wanting to end an ahelp, which keep in mind you didn't have to even answer in the first place, another admin was also in the server at the time of this ahelp if i remembe correctly, because its getting long (45 messages and 50 mins is pretty long yeah) feels like you really just cant be bothered with being an admin, but maybe thats just me feeling that.
4. your jordans are fake
5. fool out of myself? i asked about names so i could see if they were acceptable so i could know that those names were okay and that i could use them while the wine appeal was underway, and then you making an ultimatum since it was getting a bit long (gonna sound like an asshole saying this but fuck it, its not like you have anything better to do, after all you chose to respond to my ahelp and choose to be an admin), and then me making a trialmin joke and you banning for an hour and perma appearance just because i didn't agree with any of the names you proposed and tried to ask about why you thought the names i suggested were bad, didnt even use the names you said not to use you just banned, although you did say why you placed the appearance ban, im personally feeling it was done because i MIGHT use said names you didnt like, and i feel shit like that is on the same level as quality control bans.
6. i still have yet to see final headmin ruling on the name john maintenance, which i admit it is not looking good for me but heres hoping.
7. gonna sound like an asshole (cheese sounds like an asshole 2: electronic boogaloo) saying this but i could care less about your satisfaction with muh character names.
8. gonna sound like an asshole saying this again (cheese sounds like an asshole 3: revelations) and it really isnt helping my case here speaking like this (in fact its likely making it worse but fuck it) but your really insisting on your """"""generosity"""""" here huh? i beg thee to get off thy high horse your highness, tis' not a horse but a fucking donkey thee are riding my liege
9. Johhny maintenance is a pretty good name and its very close to john maintenance so i like it yeah, if the headmins final ruling is that i cant use john maintenance as a name ill use johhny maintenance since its pretty good.

edit: 5-addendum. you said this appeal not the ahelp with you auuuuuuuuugh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah i have the reading comprehension of a lobotomized fetus at times rtgklstgnlksdzfg

[conrad]

Allow me to quote Timberpoes' own post, on this thread, on the rules clarification for naming policy.

Excessively OOC names fall under rule 3. Make a minimum effort to have your name fit in a setting involving a wacky space station in the future. A firstname lastname minimum is required for humans and felinids; other species may instead choose to use the default names assigned to them, such as those given through random names, or otherwise any name that is species-appropriate. Honorifics and nicknames are allowed as long as only one additive is used at a time, i.e "James Williams Jr." or "James "One-Eye" Williams". Admins may get involved if your name is dumb and can approve or disallow names at their discretion while in-game.

As you can see, naming policy is by admins discretion. In spite of this, it's quite rare for people to get bwoinked by names, since it isn't that hard to decide on a decent name.

Considering your response, I have no reason to believe you're capable of making that decision, so I'm keeping the appearance ban. Feel free to open a separate appeal if you want to further discuss this out of wine's thread. In the meantime, I'll throw the ball back in the headmins' ballpark to settle the note.

[cheeser0mancer]

Considering your response, I have no reason to believe you're capable of making that decision, so I'm keeping the appearance ban. Feel free to open a separate appeal if you want to further discuss this out of wine's thread. In the meantime, I'll throw the ball back in the headmins' ballpark to settle the note.

9. Johhny maintenance is a pretty good name and its very close to john maintenance so i like it yeah, if the headmins final ruling is that i cant use john maintenance as a name ill use johhny maintenance since its pretty good.

If the concern is brand recognition on Sybil, I'm even willing to go with Johnny Maintenance since that sounds like a kickass rockstar-turned-wageslave stage name.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Misdoubtful]

This thread is a disaster, this appeal is a disaster and the vast majority of it is just shitposting. How many people need to tell you that the names you have chosen aren't acceptable for you to finally get it? This all just comes off as dense. Conrad gave you an out and you responded with whatever you responded with.

Enough of this, enough pushing boundaries, enough jokes, and enough testing the limits continually trying to weasel things in.

You didn't try to see if names were acceptable, you pounded sand when told they weren't and refused to take no for an answer.

You want a clear answer?

The name and the names you've argued into the ground are not acceptable, and will never be acceptable per naming policy as it is, and you've proven that you clearly can't be trusted to even come up with a reasonable name for yourself with simple understandable justifications.

We are all in agreement on this one. Appeal denied.