[Cheshify] Tartersause - banned for iffy escalation

[tartersause]

BYOND account: Tartersause
Character name: Marcus Zimmerman
Ban type: Banned from all servers
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason: Banned by host: You, or another user of this computer or connection (Tartersause) is banned from player here. The ban reason is: Another instance of iffy escalation. As an assistant, shoved the HOP because they were refused a silver ID. This was quickly escalated in them trying to kill the HOP with a broken bottle, and later ahelping to tell admin they'd be killing and round removing the HOP. This ban (BanID #65533) was applied by cheshify on 2023-04-16 21:16:27 during round ID 203903. The ban is for 1 day and expires on 2023-04-17 21:16:27 (server time)
Time ban was placed: 2023-04-16 21:16:27
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 203903
Your side of the story: Upon beginning round 203903 I had decided to be a magician, I retrieved a black jumpsuit from the shuttle and looked to obtain further accessories. I had tried to access the service hall, presuming it would have the amenities that I would require. I however lacked appropriate access, and entered the HoP line. I asked the HoP for a silver id with access to most of general, meaning service. He summarily refused but I pressed the matter, telling him to "give me my id" and "do it" where he then asked me to leave the line. I refused, the individual behind me was aggravated by my holding up of the line. He had stated that he would "beat my arse" upon which I told him to "do it". When he came out, I observed that he had equipped himself with at telescopic baton, and I shoved him. He then stun attacked me twice, but on his third attempt he hit a firelock. As I recomposed myself I had armed myself with a space beer bottle, which I threw at him. I first shoved him 4 times, as a third individual entered the brawl, the person who was behind me in line had begun attacking me. I armed myself with the broken space beer bottle, and began attacking both of them while shuffling down from the HoP office to I believe science.

They had incapacitated me and I was hauled off to the brig, and given a sentence for resisting arrest and assault. I threatened to kill the HoP and was tracker implanted, following my release I had ahelped. Having been warned 2 times previously for failed escalation, I sought approval from an administrator to escalate. I put forth the idea of "sending the HoP to the morgue" and reformatted to "sending the HoP to the medbay". I've been unable to locate exact ahelp logs but I believe it went as such.

Cheshify I believe questioned why I had attacked the HoP in the first place, saying I had attempted to kill the HoP with a beer bottle, and told me to take a "break". Following Cheshify's advice I left the game and was banned.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I had been warned regarding my escalation practices previously, and I believed my behavior had improved up until this incident. I tried to tell Cheshify that I had entered myself into a bad situation, and that it was a 2v1. I didn't immediately arm myself with the beer bottle, still choosing to shove while the HoP attempted to stun me. I only armed myself when I found it necessary, despite my attempts to tell Cheshify that I was at a severe disadvantage and it was only for defensive purposes. Cheshify continuously accused me of attempting to "kill the HoP with a broken beer bottle" despite the HoP never reaching under 70 health during the entire encounter. All in all I believe I escalated appropriately.
Anything else we should know: I have been banned from other servers such as Goonstation which was permanent, I however appealed successfully. I was banned on Bee for something I don't remember, and banned on Yog for self-antagging.

[Cheshify]

Posting the ticket here first. The HOP had disconnected, and I didn't have a chance to talk to them.

NSFW:

i will send hop to medbay for refusing name change?
tartersause ➡ Admins
2023-04-16T20:48:26
Can you elaborate?
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:49:31
i ask HoP to give me silver id with name "The Great Bizarro" he refuse, come out with telescopic baton. whack me with his friend and other people get in on it. so now i will send him to medbay morgue
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T20:50:03
I'll just talk to the HOP.
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:51:07
no, i kill him do not let him know is metagame
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T20:51:18
Don't kill him, because that doesn't make sense that he just beat you without reason.
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:51:40
yes it does, i drop charges, i take ic ok
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T20:51:54
Don't kill him.
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:52:12
maybe he go crit, no tell him
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T20:52:21
I'm telling you not to escalate against him until I look into this.
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:52:37
Okay so he battonned you because you shoved him, then you attacked him with a broken bottle? Why did you do that?
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:53:36
he had his friend with cable restrains, he wouldve taken me to jail
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T20:53:53
it was a 2v1
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T20:54:05
You're not making any sense, you shoved him, he retaliated, so you think that it's okay to try to kill him with a beer bottle?
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:54:41
i didnt try to kill him. there were 2 of them and i wasnt going to be able to retaliate with fists
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T20:55:05
You didn't need to "retaliate" when you started the fight.
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:55:32
he escalated it into a chase so i needed to defend myself
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T20:55:52
You shoved him, he tried to cuff you, you ran away and started beating him to death with a bottle of beer, then you chased HIM. When you started getting hit back, you said "HELP HOP KILLING ME".
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T20:59:41
i wasnt beating him to death? he wasnt on the floor? what about the second guy as well
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T21:00:16
You were stabbing and chasing him with a beer bottle. Please take a break.
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T21:00:36
he was chasing me
tartersause ➡ cheshify
2023-04-16T21:00:44
Client disconnected
➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T21:03:43
Cheshify has created a temporary 1 day server ban for Tartersause.
cheshify ➡ tartersause
2023-04-16T21:16:29
Resolved by Cheshify
cheshify ➡ Admins
2023-04-16T21:16:30

[Cheshify]

Here's the parsed log link: https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-203903/

And relevant fight logs.

NSFW:

[2023-04-16 20:41:43.545] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) shoved Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,124,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:44.257] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,126,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:45.362] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 90) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,125,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:47.292] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) attempted to handcuff Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) (NEWHP: 90) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,124,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:47.456] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) failed to handcuff Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) (NEWHP: 90) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,124,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:51.452] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) has thrown the space beer (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,125,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:51.555] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) threw and hit Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) with the space beer (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,125,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:51.558] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) splashed Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) with /datum/reagent/consumable/ethanol/beer (1), (NEWHP: 90.2) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,125,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:53.282] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) shoved Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) (NEWHP: 90.2) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (133,128,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:55.162] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) shoved Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) into Bartholomew Davis (NEWHP: 90.2) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,128,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:59.527] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) shoved Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) (NEWHP: 90.2) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,126,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:02.277] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) shoved Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) (NEWHP: 90.2) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,124,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:04.197] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) attacked Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) with broken space beer (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 84.3) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,123,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:05.227] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) shaken Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) (NEWHP: 90) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,124,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:05.432] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) attacked Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) with broken space beer (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 78.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,124,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:07.450] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) attacked Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) with broken space beer (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,123,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:08.959] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) attacked [firelock] with the broken space beer (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,118,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:09.917] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) attacked Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) with broken space beer (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 72.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,115,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:10.332] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) shoved Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) (NEWHP: 90) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,115,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:11.276] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) attacked [��Aft Central Primary Hallway omni air vent V5Cdh] with the broken space beer (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,117,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:11.944] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 90) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,116,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:12.089] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) kicks Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 90) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (133,116,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:12.091] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) shoved Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) (NEWHP: 90) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (133,116,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:13.992] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) shoved Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 90) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,114,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:14.004] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,115,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:14.918] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) shoved Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,114,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:15.754] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) shoved Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,114,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:16.693] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) kicks Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,114,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:16.694] ATTACK: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) shoved Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,114,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:18.741] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:23.658] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:28.688] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:33.989] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:38.142] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:42.285] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:49.012] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 82.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:53.872] ATTACK: MxNimbus433/(Aurora Beck) attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with broken space beer (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 73.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,111,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:55.852] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 73.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:56.808] ATTACK: Royalderg/(James Bluefront) shoved Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 73.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,112,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:57.322] ATTACK: MxNimbus433/(Aurora Beck) kicked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) (NEWHP: 73.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,111,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:59.973] ATTACK: MxNimbus433/(Aurora Beck) grabbed Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) passive grab (NEWHP: 65.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,111,2))
[2023-04-16 20:43:00.074] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) stun attacked Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 65.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (134,113,2))
[2023-04-16 20:43:04.533] ATTACK: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) pulled from MxNimbus433/(Aurora Beck) with Jeff Gaiman (NEWHP: 34.8) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (137,105,2))
[2023-04-16 20:43:04.534] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) grabbed Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) passive grab (NEWHP: 65.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (136,106,2))

[Cheshify]

So why I approached a ban in the first place is due to a few reasons. Firstly, you have an existing note history related to bad escalation where you'll escalate a nonlethal argument into a lethal encounter.

2023-04-16 00:07:37 Had another bad escalation fight where they attacked someone as chef for flimsy reasoning, this time beating someone by tabling them over and over for insulting their pizza. Did not crit this time, but this should not happen again.

2023-04-11 22:06:45 As a chef, with minimal escalation began a fight with another player for not super good reasoning. Continued to beat them once they were in crit. Slightly misrepresented their actions in PM's

The ticket opens with you telling me that you'll be killing the HOP because "i ask HoP to give me silver id with name "The Great Bizarro" he refuse, come out with telescopic baton. whack me with his friend and other people get in on it. so now i will send him to medbay morgue." Checking the logs, I see the case isn't that he just refused and came out to attack you, but you goaded him into a nonlethal fight that you elevated to lethal once you started stabbing them with a beer bottle.

Say logs of the fight.

NSFW:

[2023-04-16 20:40:18.527] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "HOP TO HOP LINE" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,126,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:31.906] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "alright" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:33.657] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "give me a silver id" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:36.441] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "What do you need?" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:37.728] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "Why?" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:42.016] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "set the job name to The Great Bizarro" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:45.025] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "just do it" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:48.215] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "I" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:53.067] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "Do NOT trust you" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:40:53.900] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "and then give me access to everything in general" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:02.429] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "IM THE AMAZING BIZARRO!" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:02.437] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "So" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:03.152] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "How about you..." (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:04.898] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "Go to hell" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:11.799] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "i am the amazing BIZARRO!" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:24.299] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "give me my id" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:25.503] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "If uou don't get out of line" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:29.360] SAY: Piston Bronze/(Ethan Ol) "I'll beat your arse" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-04-16 20:41:31.282] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "do it" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
--- The Fight Occurs Here ---
[2023-04-16 20:42:16.490] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "HELP" (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,114,2))
[2023-04-16 20:42:21.730] SAY: Tartersause/(Marcus Zimmerman) "HOP IS KILLING ME" (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,112,2))

This doesn't very much give me the impression of good escalation, since you've escalated from an unreasonable demand (a silver ID), to a fight that you start with shoving, to hitting them with a beer bottle, to being arrested and later telling me that you'll be round removing them.

[tartersause]

i don't believe i exactly goaded him, he began the conflict via his threat of "beating my arse". most of the fight was shoving, i only found the need to use the broken beer bottle once the other guy got in on it and started coming at me. in the ticket i later reformatted to "sending the hop to medbay", not round removing him. once he knocks me onto the floor other people start kicking me, and one even i beiieve said he'd steal my money.

i took the hop up on his threat and he came out with a telescopic baton, so i shoved him multiple times. threw a beer bottle at him. never used anything lethal nor tried to "kill him"

[Cheshify]

The fight just doesn't sit well with me, I dislike that you tried to take this issue into murdering the HOP long after escalation ended, and that you escalated from "wanting an ID" to "stabbing the HOP with a beer bottle", but that is somewhat more natural. I do appreciate the reasoning you've provided, but with your history of escalation, I'm not sure if removing the ban is warranted.

I had been warned regarding my escalation practices previously, and I believed my behavior had improved up until this incident. I tried to tell Cheshify that I had entered myself into a bad situation, and that it was a 2v1. I didn't immediately arm myself with the beer bottle, still choosing to shove while the HoP attempted to stun me. I only armed myself when I found it necessary, despite my attempts to tell Cheshify that I was at a severe disadvantage and it was only for defensive purposes. Cheshify continuously accused me of attempting to "kill the HoP with a broken beer bottle" despite the HoP never reaching under 70 health during the entire encounter. All in all I believe I escalated appropriately.

I don't know if "being at a severe disadvantage" is necessary grounds to start escalating lethally in a fight that you yourself started, but I recognize that sometimes fights just happen. I suppose the issue is the misrepresentation the fight, and later telling me not to talk to the HOP because you were going to kill him yourself for escalation that had long since ended. I think the note has merit as a learning tool for how escalation works, so I'll be keeping that, but I do think your ban has been enough of a break.