Vekter

[Vekter]

Bottom post of the previous page:

straight L admin

You're banned, you don't have rights.

[TheFinalPotato]

can be kinda straightlaced but has balls. pretty based.

[Vekter]

Always the admin to server hop and deal with stuff when no other admins are on, God bless you.

TRUE

I know neither of you mean it like this but if you read this the wrong way it sounds like "has no life or nothing better to do"

[Super Aggro Crag]

evilest admin

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

He's pretty decent. Last ticket I had with him he treated me very politely.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Vekter was the admin who had the balls to permaban the guy who had been harassing me for weeks.

Treated me like a human in the ticket, when a lot of other people in the community act like I'm the creature from the black lagoon.

Is a huge credit to the admin team.

[Pumpkin0]

he works really hard, and I respect that a lot
of all the admins he's the one I think is most ready to buckle down and get things done when they need doing and that's pretty cool

[LeekiLoku]

"seems like a IC issue"

But other than that vekter is a good admin, very formal in tickets and know his shit.
All other mins should strive to be vekter.

[conrad]

Unbeliavably based.

[Timonk]

happy 9 or 10 years being a tg admin or something

[Vekter]

happy 9 or 10 years being a tg admin or something

Off and on. This stint will have been 3 years in June.

[Armhulen]

surviving that long as an admin is really a statement in of itself to quality adminning.

[mrmelbert]

There is not a single admin which gets more stuff done than this guy, incredible commendable work

[BeeSting12]

happy 9 or 10 years being a tg admin or something

Off and on. This stint will have been 3 years in June.

MSO saw that three year streak and had to reset it to an hour.

[Timonk]

MSO saw that three year streak and had to reset it to an hour.

man i wish you were an admin again because you had a funny pfp
that or reacquire that pfp for old times sake

[BeeSting12]

MSO saw that three year streak and had to reset it to an hour.

man i wish you were an admin again because you had a funny pfp
that or reacquire that pfp for old times sake

For some reason the old image was still uploaded but the forums wasn't showing it. Should be fixed now.

[Timonk]

Thank you

[dessysalta]

Well-coordinated talks and conversations out of game, but feels really aggressive in game/OOC. I seldom ahelp gimmicks or ideas I have because I feel like they'll be shot down, and with remarks like "if you dust him I will fuck you up" among other things I've heard and seen I feel much less inclined to pitch ideas or attempt gimmicks as a player around Vekter. I'm not sure if I'm just misreading the tone or not. Otherwise, great admin.

[Vekter]

Well-coordinated talks and conversations out of game, but feels really aggressive in game/OOC. I seldom ahelp gimmicks or ideas I have because I feel like they'll be shot down, and with remarks like "if you dust him I will fuck you up" among other things I've heard and seen I feel much less inclined to pitch ideas or attempt gimmicks as a player around Vekter. I'm not sure if I'm just misreading the tone or not. Otherwise, great admin.

So it's important to note that, in that specific situation, I was told by one party that you were in the process of dragging someone to the SM to throw them in. I was trying to impart urgency to it and get you to stop before you actually did it, because sorting out the issue OOC is easier than bringing someone back if they're dusted.

I admittedly could have been less aggressive about it. Don't feel like you can't talk to me though, I'm open to ideas for gimmicks in general. I was just being aggressive in that one instance because I didn't want to have to clean up some huge mess due to someone's IC actions.

It's something I can definitely work on in the future, though. Good feedback.

Also ignore timonk, we taught him wrong on purpose as a joke.

[Kassori]

deleted

[PanoplyOfTenAndThree]

Hello,

The events I'd like to talk about mostly relate to round 204075, though some relevant communications did occur in 204072.

However, I would first like to set some background. I've been involved in various RP communities for a long time; rather than games that tie mechanics and RP together, mostly freeform writing communities or those building on top of a game not particularly designed to accommodate it. And with this, I've seen quite a lot of drama. So - should a newer-to-RP person ask for advice, one thing I like to especially emphasize is the need to communicate and set expectations with those they'll be RPing with. Among new and veteran writers alike, by far the most common source of anything from OOC tension down to spectacularly explosive tirades and feuds can be traced back to this: failures to communicate. Differences in expectations (and failure to set those expectations).

So, let's take a look at 204075. What happened is this:

• Communication that Dynamic would not be used (stated in the round prior, 204072).
• Communication that there would be no events. (This may have been a typo, but it was not corrected; also in 204072).
• Roundstart "Green Shift" announcement (In the round itself, 204075).

But then what happened? A chaos round with a surfeit of antagonists and destruction. And I recognize that some events did not go the way they were intended but that's not what I'm here to give feedback about - instead, it's about communication and expectations.

Now, I want to mention that this topic does not carry much personal investment for me. If an admin is taking a hand in running a round, I'll be surprised if it lasts more than 30~40 minutes. I've never seen an admin override to give a nice, long, peaceful round about construction projects or whatever. But I have the experience base to draw from and conclude this. Not everyone does.

Given the above communications, I don't think it's fair to dismiss the Green Shift announcement as "they shouldn't have believed it." For a start, it's commonly used as a baseline to set expectations - someone in command will announce if it is green, yellow, orange, red, or black, and players get an idea of what they're in for.

And then in context of the other communications, it seems very reasonable that someone not as aware of the Manuel administration's tendencies would conclude it's going to be a calmer round. And then when it is a very high chaos round. Well, we're at the crux of the issue - expectations were not set correctly.

And to your question in the following round, 'what can you do to make people not get pissy?' Communicate. It doesn't take much. One thing I've seen another admin do is, simply, vote for "Chaos round?" with yes or no. But a vote doesn't need to take place - simply inform players that next round will be a chaos round. Communicate - do it right and even if it's concise - not everyone will like it - but it will set expectations. Those that truly abhor that kind of round can at least brace themselves, or perhaps dip out until the next. In any RP community, setting expectations can go a long way towards ensuring players have a positive experience, even if IC events are anything but positive.

Please forgive me for the very blunt nature of this post. It's not my intent to attack or cause negative feelings in any way - I simply want to be very clear about what I think are the most important parts of what went wrong, and specific, actionable feedback to address it. In this way I hope that both the involves admins and players can have a better time, next time.

Thank you for reading and considering.

[Vekter]

The intent behind that event was as follows:

1) Spawn revs.
2) Hope the revs win (I did nothing to intentionally tip the scales here. I get that the system throwing the greenshift alert may have had a hand in them winning, but I'll address that below).
3) Send 3 "Nanotrasen lawyers" to the station to bargain with the new leadership structure after the revs win.
4) Reveal, at some point, that the "lawyers" are actually deathsquad members sent to destroy the station.
5) Let what happens happens.

The general idea was to generate either interesting RP or combat content. Either the crew actively tries to bargain with the lawyers, at which point they eventually show that they aren't here in good faith and all hell breaks loose, or the crew tries to kill the lawyers and they go mask off immediately. There were a few issues that prevented this from happening the way it should have:

1) The way we create and summon antagonists was changed significantly at some point during the Dynamic switch. We used to simply hit a button to cause the event to run and give out antag roles to those who have them enabled. The new system requires us to either set the round type at round start (which I was concerned would make the game say "Round type changed to Revolution", which it used to do) or to force extended. For whatever reason, someone at some point thought it was a good idea to have the game go "Hey! It's a green shift! Nothing bad will happen Have fun!". This function is built into the game's event system and cannot be disabled without changing the round type before the game starts. I cannot stop it, I can't turn it off, I can't force it to say something else. So when I failed to set it to revolutionaries, the game told everyone nothing bad would happen, and I had no real way of telling everyone "Oh no, that was a lie" without it sounding stupid and making me look even dumber. This is why the greenshift alert played and why I couldn't do anything to prevent it from playing.
2) The revs won waaaaaaaaay faster than I had anticipated, so I didn't have time to really lock down what gear I wanted to give the deathsquad when they came on. This resulted in a few crewmembers seeing them and panicking, causing a lot of chaos despite the fact that I explicitly made an announcement saying they would be there. Some people don't listen but I didn't make it easy on them. It's worth noting that these guys weren't wearing deathsquad armor and instead had suits and riot armor on, which I thought was fitting. People saw their names and assumed they were deathsquad, which is an understandable concern.
3) One of the lawyer deathsquad guys just outright started shooting people. I'm trying to find out who that was so I can note them and not give them an event roll again. That sucked and they suck for doing it. I explicitly told all three of them to keep up the charade until things actually went off, but they almost immediately started shooting at the closest crewmember.
4) I explicitly said "there isn't going to be an event" because I didn't want people to think there would be some grand Nations-style bullshit going on. It was a rev round. That was it. That's not an event. The only "event" anything was me sending people to the station after the revs won.
5) Not directly related but another admin (who I'm not throwing under the bus because they already apologized) spawned a blob despite me explicitly telling the others that I was turning off antags for a specific reason. That definitely added to the chaos.

The reason I got pissy in OOC next round is that I always get this feeling when I run an event that doesn't go well that people want to take their frustrations out on me. I don't like that, which is why I don't run events very often. People get really shitty in OOC after a bad event and I should have just stepped away instead of responding like I did. I apologize and I'll try to be more calm in the future.

To answer your specific concerns about communication: I don't think I failed at communicating at any point in time during this exchange save for after the round had ended and the next one had begun. I explicitly stated the following:

1) I am turning off dynamic next round.
2) I am not running a specific event.

I noted this twice, once at the end of round 204072 and again at the beginning of round 204075. I maintain that it is not my fault if players expect one thing and get another when I haven't presented them with any expectation aside from "There aren't going to be latejoins this round". My only actual mistake in running the round was fucking up the antag spawning and causing the greenshift notification to go off. I will admit that I could have been clearer, but I'm not sure what else I really could have said or done in this situation aside from properly setting up the round before it started.

Also, as an aside, if I could remove the greenshift thing, I would. People see that and immediately assume nothing bad will happen and that everything is nice and safe, so when someone inevitably does something that causes conflict, they immediately fly off the handle and adminhelp us saying THIS PERSON IS BAD AND DOING BAD THINGS ON MY GREENSHIFT HELP.

[vect0r]

I wasn’t there, but maybe next time have a centcom alert that goes:
“Haha ops, our threat advisory was wrong, we in fact do have some threat, blue alert y’all.”

[Vekter]

I wasn’t there, but maybe next time have a centcom alert that goes:
“Haha ops, our threat advisory was wrong, we in fact do have some threat, blue alert y’all.”

Yeah, probably. At the time, my thought process was something like, "Well, they know I'm fucking around with it and players shouldn't expect a greenshift to have no threats whatsoever".

[vect0r]

I wasn’t there, but maybe next time have a centcom alert that goes:
“Haha ops, our threat advisory was wrong, we in fact do have some threat, blue alert y’all.”

Yeah, probably. At the time, my thought process was something like, "Well, they know I'm fucking around with it and players shouldn't expect a greenshift to have no threats whatsoever".

As a player, if I hear “no events” and get a green shift, I would assume that it would be a green shift, and plus, not everybody joins from the start of the shift.
Also, getting a green shift even when OOC I know it’s gonna be crazy, my IC character doesn’t, and RPing somebody who thinks it’s a green shift when I get a “OOC Vekter: WHOS READY TO FUCKING BALL, and role playing with people who’s characters clearly know some shit is going down.

[PanoplyOfTenAndThree]

Sorry for the delay in responding, didn't realize there's no reply notifications.

Now, respectfully, I must disagree that there were no communication issues. I do see all the more now that it didn't quite go as intended. I also understand than admins can be a bit of a lightning rod, particularly when an event doesn't go well for their character.

Aside from the original suggestions, I'd agree that - if nothing else - some sort of "This will not be a greenshift" notification would probably help. We could even borrow the terminology from an existing report - "Central Command has received information that suggests threats beyond today's threat advisory."

My assumption under those circumstances fit the situation - that it would likely be a short and not peaceful round. However, that's something I reach based on patterns of past experiences, not based on what was communicated.

Your note about 'true' greenshifts still drawing complaints really just feeds back to the main issue I tried to highlight with my first post - setting expectations. But arguably that's more of a game problem - as a green shift doesn't equate to no conflict, as you point out, but that expectation gets set. But that much isn't our problem (maybe devs could tweak the verbage if they wanted to).

For something like the original round under discussion, however, that's more under our control. Just a nudge of some kind towards "Hey, this isn't going to be a peaceful round." Will it solve every issue of someone getting mad? No, probably not. But if people expect something closer to "war ops" instead of "no antags", I think their expectations would have been tuned much more appropriately, and the chance of someone getting upset about their expectations seeming to be betrayed would be much less.

Once more, this isn't intended as anything like "You did a bad thing!". I see this sort of thing happen over and over and over again in every type of RP community, particularly for DM/GMs and event runners/organizers and so on. It's a common and human thing, and it's definitely better that people try to organize these things rather than do nothing at all just because there will certainly be a few bumps along the road.

But I do sincerely think it could be improved for next time.

And once more, thank you for reading and considering.

[Lacran]

Really good admin. Kinda mid map tastes though

[Super Aggro Crag]

i got bwoinked by vekter today and it went pretty well imo he did a realy good job today

[Kassori]

Ignore me

[Vekter]

I hate this admin with every fucking fiber of my being.

I'm sure you can do better than that. What do you hate about me? I'm always open to feedback.

E: We talked this out in Discord, everything's cool.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I meant to list this on the same day, but was going to wait for the round to end and forgot to get to it after.

Vekter did some fun little tweaking and changed the airlock sounds on a Manuel round. They were funny, but a little on the silly side. Perfectly reasonable and nothing wrong with it, Manuel's not exactly a bastion of Super Serious In-Depth Roleplay most of the time.

For reasons unknown to anyone, this angered the vocal minority on server at the time, who got a bit hostile about it. Despite this, Vekter stayed perfectly calm and polite about it, changing the sounds to still be something different, but less silly.

I mostly wanted to leave this feedback as a show that people did still enjoy the original attempt to do something fun, and not to let the vocal minority win out. Keep up the good work

[Drag]

Imagine assuming admins wont press buttons when its a green shift, thats your fault man

Vekter is a great admin, always comes up to bat when needed.

[Zeckle]

Needs to relax their OOC bias for and against certain people

[Vekter]

Needs to relax their OOC bias for and against certain people

Who do you think I'm biased for or against

[Timonk]

Needs to relax their OOC bias for and against certain people

Who do you think I'm biased for or against

People of a certain stance on rules

[Vekter]

I can't promise anyone that I like every player we have on the server, but I can promise you that I don't let my personal feelings on someone impact how I apply the rules to their situation. I strive to be as impartial as possible and, if I feel that's not possible, I can and have handed issues off to other admins.

It's impossible for me to like or get along with every player, but I can and will treat them the same in an administrative manner. For example: Sinful and I do not get along but I have regularly not punished them for situations where they were reported for breaking the rules but had not done so.

[Timonk]

I was joking yo

[Antheus]

Vekter is great. Both dealing with issues regarding other people, and issues I have caused. 10/10 great admin who does not get paid enough for the shit they deal with.

[DrAmazing343]

Shame we couldn't keep ya! Vekter has retired.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Vekter has been re-interred onto the golden throne for another long term in service to the tgstation empire.

[Vekter]

I'm back, bitches.

[kinnebian]

i thought i made a feedback on this
vekters probably one of the moral pillars of the admin team
god bless

[Deathrobotpunch1]

Sometimes has bad takes but overall a goodmin

[dessysalta]

I just don't like how they (Vekter) handle even minor altercations; from misunderstandings to ignorance, they seem to opt for overly-blunt, possibly rude and occasionally hostile remarks or dispositions. I don't feel compelled to pitch gimmicks and events to them because of that. My latest interaction on /TG/ some months ago was purging two AIs for what were, in my head, roleplay purposes—and having missed or forgotten you can't just do that. Vekter came out swinging by quoting logs, doubling back when they were wrong, and then announcing to the server someone (key word; they didn't announce my ckey or character by name, which I'm thankful for) was being noted at the end of it all. I agree I was out of line, but the method of handling the interaction (being terse in conversation, replying with (I'll say fairly intimidating) direct logs and what felt like accusations, and failing to see a player's thought process behind what led up to the mistake) just doesn't sit right with me; being misunderstood and put on the spot are both things I can't handle very well, and it's for these reasons I can't mesh with Vekter as an admin outside of blatant rule violations.

► Show Spoiler

From what I remember off the top of my head about the ordeal, a single person had died as a result of the AI minutes before round end and only as a result of harassing the purged AI and I constantly—they weren't kept from being revived to my knowledge, either. If there was anything more to that I wasn't ever informed and wouldn't have a way to find out.

Earlier on in this thread I mentioned that their abrupt, aggressive phrases in ahelps ("if you dust him I will fuck you up", etc.) make for a generally unapproachable demeanor, and I can only say these feelings of mine were exacerbated with this more direct interaction. I genuinely did want to see how two non-lawed intelligences would interact with each other in (what I thought was) a narrative setting capable of housing them—ending with a medium severity note that reduces what I say to a quote and assuming I made no effort to understand what the issue was makes me less inclined to try anything that involves roleplaying if it means possibly making a mistake, especially when I've been involved in much higher risk events and seen them through to completion without any hiccups.

I don't think Vekter is a bad person, I just don't feel understood or empathized with as a player.

[Vekter]

I just don't like how they (Vekter) handle even minor altercations; from misunderstandings to ignorance, they seem to opt for overly-blunt, possibly rude and occasionally hostile remarks or dispositions. I don't feel compelled to pitch gimmicks and events to them because of that. My latest interaction on /TG/ some months ago was purging two AIs for what were, in my head, roleplay purposes—and having missed or forgotten you can't just do that. Vekter came out swinging by quoting logs, doubling back when they were wrong, and then announcing to the server someone (key word; they didn't announce my ckey or character by name, which I'm thankful for) was being noted at the end of it all. I agree I was out of line, but the method of handling the interaction (being terse in conversation, replying with (I'll say fairly intimidating) direct logs and what felt like accusations, and failing to see a player's thought process behind what led up to the mistake) just doesn't sit right with me; being misunderstood and put on the spot are both things I can't handle very well, and it's for these reasons I can't mesh with Vekter as an admin outside of blatant rule violations.

► Show Spoiler

From what I remember off the top of my head about the ordeal, a single person had died as a result of the AI minutes before round end and only as a result of harassing the purged AI and I constantly—they weren't kept from being revived to my knowledge, either. If there was anything more to that I wasn't ever informed and wouldn't have a way to find out.

Earlier on in this thread I mentioned that their abrupt, aggressive phrases in ahelps ("if you dust him I will fuck you up", etc.) make for a generally unapproachable demeanor, and I can only say these feelings of mine were exacerbated with this more direct interaction. I genuinely did want to see how two non-lawed intelligences would interact with each other in (what I thought was) a narrative setting capable of housing them—ending with a medium severity note that reduces what I say to a quote and assuming I made no effort to understand what the issue was makes me less inclined to try anything that involves roleplaying if it means possibly making a mistake, especially when I've been involved in much higher risk events and seen them through to completion without any hiccups.

I don't think Vekter is a bad person, I just don't feel understood or empathized with as a player.

Your screenshot link is broken.

I can't remember anything about this interaction because I think it was at least a month or two ago. For what it's worth, I've been working on not doing things like "if you dust that body I will fuck you up" and being more approachable as an admin.

Feel free to appeal that note and I'll take a deeper look at what happened. If the situation is as you described it, we can talk about removing it.

[dessysalta]

I appreciate the response, really. I put in an appeal and I hope if nothing else I can better understand the motivations behind it. (I also fixed the screenshot in this thread.)