Poll: Adding a Population Cap

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:41 am #66130

Bottom post of the previous page:

I thought the second server was just for those who didnt want to play on the overpopulated Sybil server, why would it have different rules? Hell, even if it did, how can a headmin not know about it?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:56 am #66139

We shouldn't bar people from connecting to the server. An assistant cap is much more productive. If they can't join, either the HoP can do his job and open up non-assistant slots, or they might choose to go to basil. FORCING people to go to basil is immensely shit and will only fuck over basil. I'm begging you, don't do that, it's not a good idea. It's a bad idea just like renaming basil to badger, or making it 'server 1' in an attempt to populate it. This is coming from someone with game server hosting experience.

Either that or we can use /vg/'s panic bunker code and redirect people to baystation

Loonikus · Post by **Loonikus** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:01 am #66141

And how does that solve the overpopulation issue? Boxstation simply is not designed to hold as many players as it often does, regardless of what job said people hold.

Either we must switch from Boxstation to a larger station or the population must go down. Since a large number of people would rather jump off a cliff than play something other than Boxstation, that narrows down our choices.

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:45 am #66148

Why not use

Spoiler:

and make a map that isnt stupidly large length-wise but has more space than box?

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:50 am #66162

If people don't get to play on Sibyl and take that as an opportunity to grief Basil they'll get banned from both.

We're not going to let you poor Basil players get turned into the center attraction of a Brazzers video.
Both servers share rules and a ban DB for a reason. That you prefer playing on one is your own deal, good for you. That you don't want others playing on your server is selfish and a horrible reason for not balancing things.

People keep saying "TRUST US IT WONT WORK DONT DO IT" but really you just don't want more people in your clubhouse. At least be honest about it or come up with a concrete reason beyond "I HAVE A BAD FEELING".

Also player cap vs. assistant cap?

Why not both?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:31 am #66175

An0n3 wrote:Also player cap vs. assistant cap?

Why not both?

Because a player cap would potentially leave 30 assistants and no engineers/science/security/etc.

An assistant cap would reach the arbitrary player cap while also filling up roles that aren't catering to worthless greyrainbowshirts

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:32 am #66176

A player cap should only apply to Assistants.

This is so we can fill up every other station roll.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:21 am #66188

If assistants get capped then "assistants" will start appearing in other roles, doing nothing of merit in relation to that role and eating slots. Last I checked "dereliction of duty" is still an IC thing, so I'd say the odds of it improving with time aren't good unless sec officers go full blown hall monitor mode and start jailing people for being outside their workspace for no reason (Unless of course they're eaten by assistants as well). Alternatively, if you start admin enforcing "doing your job" I can see things getting a lot less fun very quickly.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:31 am #66192

Incoming wrote:If assistants get capped then "assistants" will start appearing in other roles, doing nothing of merit in relation to that role and eating slots.

And those people will quickly start to find themselves banned/job banned unless all that's left is assistant.

capi duffman · Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:51 am

Saegrimr wrote:
Incoming wrote:If assistants get capped then "assistants" will start appearing in other roles, doing nothing of merit in relation to that role and eating slots.
And those people will quickly start to find themselves banned/job banned unless all that's left is assistant.

Exactly this, if you play as a shitler, eventually there will be only assistant left, and you get the only fate a shitler deserves.

While I don't think the cap will work as we hope, whining about the decrease in quality won't solve the problem, so I say we go for it and check the results in a couple of months.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:21 pm #66266

It's really fucking satisfying when someone has to adminhelp because they're banned from assistant and there are no job slots left.
Wow I guess we just have too many people present who actually want to play the game.
Guess you're stuck observing or playing a different game huh?

Capping assistant at something like 10 (just throwing out numbers) makes sure that the station isn't 60 assistants all fucking around.
Even if nobody wants to play assistant there shouldn't be more than that 60-70 people on the station anyway.

Capping both would work just fine.

Like Saegrimir said, someone picking up another job role just to run around and act like an assistant is a lot more obvious and likelier to wind up getting banned for it.
Not that being a piece of shit as an assistant is protected or encouraged, it's just that much more obvious when it's a medical doctor or engineer doing it.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:46 pm #66994

We should start a project where box is completely remapped exactly the same way but expanded 1 or 2 tiles for everything. Everything would be exactly the same but bigger and it would be hilarious if no one told anyone and it just appeared one day.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:55 pm #66997

An0n3 wrote:How can you say it's bad when we've never even tried it?

This is not a good argument btw.
Don't do this.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:30 pm #67010

NikNakFlak wrote:We should start a project where box is completely remapped exactly the same way but expanded 1 or 2 tiles for everything. Everything would be exactly the same but bigger and it would be hilarious if no one told anyone and it just appeared one day.

I've vaguely wanted to do bigbox for like a year.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:29 am #67111

Alright time to put down my thoughts since I'm in bed and on my phone and I got time.
Pushing people onto another server that has a different playstyle and culture is not healthy. Historically people joined #2 from #1 after they saw how different it was. Let it stay this way. I think truthfully and certainly that #2's population will repair itself, you just have to give it time. forcing a dispora for the wrong reasons will not be healthy whatsoever, #2 will just become sybil. I don't think that's not what the regulars there want, but that's what you're forcing them to become because you're not patient. This will only damage the game as we(I say this as if I've recently even played lmao) will without a doubt get around 20/30 afk characters as people just hang around in #2 to wait for slots to open up in #1.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:45 am #67118

Open up a 3rd server and have it run ministation. The little metagang you guys have can stay on there. Regardless, something needs to be done about the overpopulation that happens on Sybil.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:57 am #67124

Do something about it, just don't shit up someone else's experience because you and 30 other people are forced to become assistants.

Also nice meme fuckface.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:26 am #67146

As i understand it, the second server was made to deal with the overflow from the first server. Not to become a place for people like yourself to berate the players from the first server by calling them stuff like "sibylshitters". Basil is underpopulated, Sybil is overpopulated. The solution is clear.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:51 am #67156

We have had two servers for a very, very long time. Many people specifically enjoy the differences between the servers. Forcing people onto the smaller server destroys that.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:55 am #67158

Nobody is being forced to join the second server. If there are no slots open on the first then you can just observe. Are you saying we should do nothing about the 30+ Assistants we have during peak times?

danno · Post by **danno** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:13 am #67171

Alex Crimson wrote:As i understand it, the second server was made to deal with the overflow from the first server. Not to become a place for people like yourself to berate the players from the first server by calling them stuff like "sibylshitters". Basil is underpopulated, Sybil is overpopulated. The solution is clear.

shut the fuck up oh my god
this has never been something that has been restricted to just people who play on server 2
don't give me that "holier than thou" shit, you are equally as garbage as everyone else who plays here. we all are. don't try and fool yourself.

this isn't supposed to be a discussion about fucking "server superiority"

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:16 am #67175

The fuck are you talking about?

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:33 am #67183

The replies to this thread gave me cancer.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:00 am #67208

danno wrote:
Alex Crimson wrote:As i understand it, the second server was made to deal with the overflow from the first server. Not to become a place for people like yourself to berate the players from the first server by calling them stuff like "sibylshitters". Basil is underpopulated, Sybil is overpopulated. The solution is clear.
shut the fuck up oh my god
this has never been something that has been restricted to just people who play on server 2
don't give me that "holier than thou" shit, you are equally as garbage as everyone else who plays here. we all are. don't try and fool yourself.

this isn't supposed to be a discussion about fucking "server superiority"

no dannos im pretty sure you are way more garbage than everyone else

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:34 am #67211

Alex Crimson wrote:As i understand it, the second server was made to deal with the overflow from the first server. Not to become a place for people like yourself to berate the players from the first server by calling them stuff like "sibylshitters". Basil is underpopulated, Sybil is overpopulated. The solution is clear.

This. Sorry to blow up your fantasy Basil Bro's but they weren't created to have different experiences with different values. People segregated themselves for all sorts of reasons. The only reason we have two servers is to handle a massive number of players. This false pretense that there is supposed to be a difference between the two playstyles is only working out to the detriment of both servers.

Running into one server and saying "We claim this land for our playstyle if you don't like it you're misusing our space" is just the dumbest, most entitled, and selfish shit. They share rules, bans, admins, game modes, and sometimes even have the same map. There's nothing stopping someone who plays on one server from playing on the other. There's no whitelist or application or test. You will not be deemed "not basil enough for basil" or "not sibyl enough for sibyl".

Stop pretending this is an intended thing. It's a misconception people try to force. Nothing more.

EDIT: Actually I should say it's a misconception people have really successfully forced to the point where people from Sibyl don't play on Basil because they figure it's a big circlejerk (and they're not entirely wrong) and people from Basil don't play on Sibyl because they think it's a big griff fest (and they're not entirely wrong either). We should ideally have two servers that a compromise between both, with an even distribution of players.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:59 am #67235

It wasn't meant to be different but it is. Let me put it into your terms since you're donkey fucking brain doesnt get it @ Alex. Imagine if one day all admins decided to force sybil to play like #2. Would you enjoy that? 90% of people wouldn't, and that's okay, but for the love of god don't force people to join another server for the wrong reasons.

Saying that they're not different is disillusioned because guess what they are. It's why most people who try it dont like it, because unfortunately we've attracted the "I just want to fuck with game mechanics and play the game whilst having minimal human contact" and that's also okay, but that explains why #2 has slowly being going down, because the old roleplaying people have left and there's been nobody to replace them. If you legit think that there's still a metaclique you're so out of tune that it's not fucking funny. Any resemblance of metafriends or cliques, which didn't even exist lol, died a long time ago amigos.

Vigilare · Post by **Vigilare** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:34 pm #67257

there isn't really a 'play like #2'
people on basil play differently just because we don't have 90 people on at once
it's rare we even hit 30

if sybil was going to 'play like #2' they'd have to remove most of their players... who'd probably then go over to basil... so the servers would just be reversed

sybil = high pop = more events, action etc = more fun.. but also more dying --> out of the round more --> less fun
basil = low pop = less dying, rounds are longer because no loose singularities --> more rp... but also less events, action etc --> nothing goes on sometimes --> less fun

although they weren't made for different playstyles, that's how they've come about, simply because of the amount of players
like if you renamed basil 'billybob' and sybil 'sillysue' the playstyle would still be the same. people would just whine in ooc about the name change.

it wasn't intended to be like this but that's how it is. not saying sybil is griff mcgriffson, but it /is/ faster-paced than basil; since exciting things happen more, players have less of a chance to sit down and talk without either missing something important or being eaten by a singulo.

I can't speak for how sybil regulars view basil regulars, but from what I've seen there isn't some sort of server war or anything; in the end we're all spessmens, we just prefer different types of spess

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:43 pm #67263

if sybil doesn't roleplay in higher pop rounds it's a problem we should fix with sybil not erect walls between roleplayers and the shitters. people should be choosing server based on map, not roleplay/population, ideally both servers would hit the sweet spot of roleplay and !fun!

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:26 pm #67268

ColonicAcid wrote:It wasn't meant to be different but it is. Let me put it into your terms since you're donkey fucking brain doesnt get it

And the only response here is "deal with it".

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:16 pm #67277

Saegrimr wrote:
ColonicAcid wrote:It wasn't meant to be different but it is. Let me put it into your terms since you're donkey fucking brain doesnt get it
And the only response here is "deal with it".

wow friend i have a similar response to yours.
"shut the fuck up and go play on #2 and then come and tell me that it's not different and it would benefit from players that necessarily don't want to be there."
but what am i saying lol of course you won't you would rather stay here and say stupid uneducated shit that you have no idea of.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:53 pm #67284

ColonicAcid wrote:"shut the fuck up and go play on #2 and then come and tell me that it's not different and it would benefit from players that necessarily don't want to be there."
but what am i saying lol of course you won't you would rather stay here and say stupid uneducated shit that you have no idea of.

You drove yourself into some sort of perceived enclave, then hiss and spit at idea of other people playing on your server.
Are we really gonna get into the connection time dickwaving? I've logged 10 rounds on Basil in the last three days, you've logged 10 rounds total for all servers since January 1st. What happened to your "rarely plays" title again?

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:04 pm #67286

I never got one faggot.
It really doesn't matter though, 10 rounds is absolutely dickall, which once again is besides the point because not a few posts up I said I hadn't played in a while.
I'm not hissing and spitting m8, you were a dickhead with your passive aggressive "DEAL WITH IT LOL" and i was a dickhead back.
Be a shitcunt to me and I'll double your bet and be a shitcunt back. I put that in the simplest terms so that even you could understand it.

Perceived enclave? There is nothing here being perceived and I'm not in a enclave, what I've said is absolutely correct, #2 is completely different to sybil gameplay wise, stating that it isn't is once again you pretending it's something which it is not.
Yes, we came from the same ancestors as to monkeys, but that doesn't mean we're monkeys now. Things evolve, you either evolve with them or you get left behind, that's basic shit right there. You appear to still think that #2 is a server for the leftovers of sybil. It was that yes, I never denied that, but you're out of fucking whack if you say that's what it is now.
Well if this gets through yeah that's what its going to become and you will ostricise the regulars at #2 but I don't think any of you really care about that so whatever, do it, I'll be here playing other shitty video games waiting for the time to say "I told you so."

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:13 pm #67290

I also want to state that I never said we don't people from Sybil, stop misquoting me you shitheads, I said that FORCING people to join basil for the WRONG reasons is bad for the server. That fucking goes by itself I don't really need to explain why do I?

Find me one direct quote of anyone saying that we don't want people from Sybil. The thing that has been said is we don't want Sybil's backflow, and yeah, that's true once again because it links to the above statement.

Pls get reading comprehension.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:25 pm #67293

ColonicAcid wrote:Things evolve, you either evolve with them or you get left behind, that's basic shit right there.

So "evolve", and deal with it. Or get left behind.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:26 pm #67294

No my compadre this isn't evolution this is forced prohibition.

There is a difference.
But epic mang that's two passive aggressive statements in one page. I think this may be a new world record.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:32 pm #67297

ColonicAcid wrote:But epic mang that's two passive aggressive statements in one page. I think this may be a new world record.

There's no aggression here. I'm telling you that no matter how much you cry about it, the fact wont change that the servers are currently identical in every way (except when metastation hopefully gets added back later), and to treat them as "COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES THINK OF MUH FRIENDS ITS NOT THE SAAAAME" is just asinine.

So again the only real option here is to deal with it, or go play some other shitty video games as you stroke your chin waiting for the day "something" happens to gloat about.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:46 pm #67299

You're making assumptions there. I never said it wasn't the same game. I merely said it was different mindsets that play in them.
This is true.

So I uh woosh... do you hear that?
It's the sound of the point going over your head so high it could orbit the fucking moon.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:49 pm #67300

ColonicAcid wrote:You're making assumptions there. I never said it wasn't the same game. I merely said it was different mindsets that play in them.

ColonicAcid wrote:what I've said is absolutely correct, #2 is completely different to sybil gameplay wise, stating that it isn't is once again you pretending it's something which it is not.

something something reading comprehension

Or is "gameplay" somehow not related to the game now?

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:53 pm #67301

I don't see how saying it's got different gameplay means it's a different whole game.

Bay is different gameplay, but that doesn't mean we have stopped playing ss13 and instead we started playing furry shitfuck simulator.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:44 pm #67376

I am reasonably certain that Bay is exactly that.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:52 pm #67384

Jesus Christ, I rarely play on Badger anymore (because no meta, and a prefer a little busier), but having played there for a very long time, and played sibyl for a long time also IT'S OBJECTIVELY DIFFERENT. I cannot see how anyone go go between the servers and not see this.

This is not some server 2 elitism, or some server war bullshit, it's just two states in the same country with different accents. All they are arguing, is that people that CHOOSE to play on sibyl regardless of pop, do so because they don't want to play on badger, and people that play on badger regardless of pop, do so because they don't want to play on Sibyl.
It's pretty straight forward.

Loonikus · Post by **Loonikus** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:34 pm #67432

Even if it sucks ass, it wouldn't hurt to try it.

Again, the way I see it, SS13 as we know it is simply not designed for 70+ people. The map isn't big enough, the gamemodes don't support it, it just doesn't work as intended. Thats all there is to it folks, something has to give.

ABearInTheWoods · Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:28 am

I'm just going to point out, for the sake of pointing it out:

Basil/badger is server 1.

Sybil is server 2.

Keep that in mind at all times thank you.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:13 am #67542

no matter how hard you try to make that the truth it never will be
nobody refers to badger as server 1, the attempt to make badger into "the first server" did fuck all, and the server addresses are still exactly the same

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:23 am #67545

Yep, most people refer to Sybil as Server 1 and Basil/Badger as Server 2 despite attempts to the contrary.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:29 am #67554

The change was so naïve it's kind of cute in a retarded sort of way. As if changing the names would sort anything out.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:18 pm #67562

I'd still rather have an assistant cap than a player cap so that (as lots of people have been saying) you can have the job roles filled out. Otherwise you will get lots of assistants crowding out people who would actually fill station jobs.

I like highpop rounds, but apparently everyone else hates them? I guess I don't have a massive objection to playing on Basil if I understood the map a bit better.

flazeo25 · Post by **flazeo25** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:40 pm #67649

If there is gonna be assistant cap could we tie it to amount of security in round which would be hos, warden, officers and decteive:
0 sec = 3 assistants
1 sec = 5 assistants
2 sec = 7 assistants
3 sec = 9 assistants
4 sec = 12 assistants
5 sec = 15 assistants
6 sec = 17 assistants
7 sec = 19 assistants
8 sec = 21 assistants
all sec = unlimited or as many assistant as pop cap allows.

So it only work for security arriving so there be no 15+ assistants and 0 security a round.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:36 pm #67680

flazeo25 wrote:-numbers snip-

So Security should be outnumbered in odds of 2.6ish on the higher end. Not bad.

It'd be a good way to regulate, and actually incentivize Security play - Basil is plagued by NoSec

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:02 pm #67696

I wouldn't mind sec being tied to assistants. Security are assistants with guns who can't be antags anyway.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:54 pm #67717

paprika wrote:I wouldn't mind sec being tied to assistants. Security are assistants with guns who can't be antags anyway.

Captains are all-access assistants who can't be antags
HoPs are all-access assistants
HoSes are all access assistants with tons of shiny gear who can't be antags
Scientists are assistants with explosives
Doctors are assistants with drugs
Engineers are assistants with free tools and a black hole
Cargo techs are assistants... with free supplies
etc

Should we implement a population cap on the servers?