allow luxury shuttle to be valid for lynching

[serxule]

im not the only person that agrees luxury shuttle is a massive change to game balance as a whole: if you have an ID you have to go out of your way to make sure you have enough money by the time the shuttle arrives, if you dont have an ID or cant have one you're pretty much fucked over as the main bulk of the luxury shuttle is surrounded by invincible walls/windows

this has only become a problem as a certain someone has been buying it every single round, and majority of players get pissed about it from what i see

luxury shuttle should count as something like disco inferno, if it gets bought, the buyer is valid to get lynched, because they both force you to either prepare for the shuttle or go out of your way to make sure you'll survive on the shuttle, with the only difference being that antags might have a better time on disco inferno

[Fikou]

L

[TheLoLSwat]

it is 500 credits man go make some money instead of spending the whole round bugging security

[The_Silver_Nuke]

Huge agree. Especially if you are incapable of owning money like some kind of baddie then you're screwed out of one side of the shuttle. At least the Raven shuttle with all the turrets isn't entirely impenetrable. Plus, spamming one particular shuttle round after round after round has in the end usually gotten it locked behind an emag.

[Agux909]

What a dozen rounds in a row with Lisa in it do to a mf.

[Turbonerd]

If a specific person is doing something annoying every round, just ahelp them. I don't think making something valid over a trend in a specific server from a specific person is good policy, as some rules lawyer would eventually use that to valid someone in a time where the trend died and the purchaser was unaware of it.

A minor riot from would make more sense if you want to resolve it IC.

[Misdoubtful]

I mean...

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Headmin_Rulings

Buying terrible shuttles

Allowed, but the crew is also allowed to mutiny/lynch

Addendum: Buying (bad shuttles) when the crew is saving up for a more expensive shuttle or has agreed to make a BYOS could be cause for mutiny.

Clarification: Inciting a lynch mob and defending yourself lethally is self-antagging. Non-lethal self defense is generally fine, in the same vein as resisting a valid arrest.

It's less about which shuttle someone buys, and more the grief caused by buying that specific one. The Birdboat Shuttle isn't a traditional "grief" shuttle, but buying it when the crew is saving up for a more expensive shuttle or has agreed to make a BYOS could be cause for mutiny. Shuttles that are emag-locked are typically used to grief the crew, as are the Arena and cult shuttles.

This thread brought up a lot of valid points.

It made me realize that I plainly dislike grief shuttles on a fundamental / game level,
but that's an issue with the codebase itself, and it's not worth attempting to handle administratively due to this nature.

As a result, we've decided to revert the ruling back to its prior form, with some very minor tweaks for clarification's sake.

In summation:
Buying a grief shuttle is allowed, but lynchable / liable to mutiny.
Buying a shuttle when most of the station has agreed to another shuttle (such as BYOS) may be cause for mutiny.
Inciting a lynch mob and defending yourself lethally is self-antagging. Non-lethal self defense is generally fine, in the same vein as resisting a valid arrest.
Buying a grief shuttle when the station / the pods are destroyed is a dick move and may also get you in trouble with admins.
This policy may expand beyond the captain as well, obviously, and serves as a general "grief shuttle" guideline.

So if it screws the majority over, causes "mass grief", lynch em. If people are rich, who cares. If security can't keep the few poors down? Damn that sucks. All depends on the state of the round.

Side note: It'd maybe be kinda interesting if the same shuttle couldn't be bought two rounds in a row or something so there would be shuttle diversity.

[bastardblaster]

L

[Farquaar]

Who cares what the lazy poors think? Just earn some money if you want the first-class experience. Or don't spend it all on chips and soda pop before you know what shuttle is coming.

[Shellton(Mario)]

God just make some money for 1 fucking round and stop crying when someone does a minor thing to inconvenience you. This isnt happening every single round just deal with it and move it. Are you really mad about not being able to go on the 2min waiting screen to go to the next 2-3min waiting screen. If you are just take a pod

[MooCow12]

It already does make you valid for lynching because its a powergamer shuttle that limits EVERYONE such that it can prevent antagonists from using some of their abilities.

I dont know why everyone here keeps saying "its 500 credits' 500 credits doesnt delete the magic anti teleport zone that the luxury shuttle has or allows you to take your pets to the front of the shuttle, the 500 credit cost is the least of your fucking worries.


If you are a xenobiologist making pets or cytologist making cytology mobs or roboticist making borgs/posibrain mechs you 100% have every right to lynch whoever buys the shuttle.



Unironically, luxury shuttle can be bought to hard counter nukies (cant blow it up), malf ai, kudzu, spiders, xenos, void heretic spells (their teleport abilities dont work on shuttle so pretty much your entire kit that is designed around combat is useless), cultists (teleport hand and rune doesnt work anywhere on the shuttle so you cant use it to gather more sacrifices for last minute summon), experimental teleporter (traitor item) and probably more im missing.


TLDR: Its not the paywall, 500 credits isnt that much, its the mechanics that force the paywall or the lack of ability for certain types of entities to even be able to pay.

[Agux909]

[SkeletalElite]

The luxury shuttle is not a grief shuttle, so no.

The poor section is perfectly serviceable, access to the rich section is not required.

[Hoxha]

the luxury shuttle by itself is fine, the only thing the poor section is really missing out on is a medical room. i think the primary issue is the fact that its almost completely antag-proof and some people take advantage of this to buy it round after round after round, which at that point is just powergaming

[serxule]

L

[NamelessFairy]

Personally I already consider it a grief shuttle worthy of killing whoever bought it. If it didn't carry the risk of being executed for buying it it'd end up being bought even more often than it already is since it nullifies or greatly reduces the risk for a large portion of antagonists for a extremely low price.

[MooCow12]

Oh wizard and ninja, i think luxury shuttle stops ninja katana jaunt and wizard teleport spell (which has become a recent trend , ive seen alot of wizards maxing out their teleport spell so they can just constantly teleport away from combat)


Another 2 antagonists that have potential to be extremely screwed over by lux shuttle.

[Pandarsenic]

Personally I already consider it a grief shuttle worthy of killing whoever bought it. If it didn't carry the risk of being executed for buying it it'd end up being bought even more often than it already is since it nullifies or greatly reduces the risk for a large portion of antagonists for a extremely low price.

[Farquaar]

I dont know why everyone here keeps saying "its 500 credits' 500 credits doesnt delete the magic anti teleport zone that the luxury shuttle has or allows you to take your pets to the front of the shuttle, the 500 credit cost is the least of your fucking worries.

Step 1: Get dog crate
Step 2: Drag pet into dog crate
Step 3: Carry dog crate onto shuttle

Skill issue

[MooCow12]

I dont know why everyone here keeps saying "its 500 credits' 500 credits doesnt delete the magic anti teleport zone that the luxury shuttle has or allows you to take your pets to the front of the shuttle, the 500 credit cost is the least of your fucking worries.

Step 1: Get dog crate
Step 2: Drag pet into dog crate
Step 3: Carry dog crate onto shuttle

Skill issue

you cant fit most cytology mobs into a dog crate and given many of them take alot of effort to make thats a pretty big nono that you cant keep them with you, they are literally your prize possession what you spent 40+ minutes going between departments to make.

[bobbahbrown]

hello serxule,

it appears you have been mislead. please do not make joke threads in policy discussion, while they are made in good jest it is frowned upon by the community!

all the best,
bobbah 'bee' brown

[Farquaar]

you cant fit most cytology mobs into a dog crate and given many of them take alot of effort to make thats a pretty big nono that you cant keep them with you, they are literally your prize possession what you spent 40+ minutes going between departments to make.

Step 1: Get a sentience potion
Step 2: Give it to your cytology pet
Step 3: Give money to your cytology pet to drag behind them as they enter the gate

Bam, your freaky friend is now chilling with you on the coolest escape shuttle in the galaxy.

[TheLoLSwat]

It already does make you valid for lynching because its a powergamer shuttle that limits EVERYONE such that it can prevent antagonists from using some of their abilities.

I dont know why everyone here keeps saying "its 500 credits' 500 credits doesnt delete the magic anti teleport zone that the luxury shuttle has or allows you to take your pets to the front of the shuttle, the 500 credit cost is the least of your fucking worries.


If you are a xenobiologist making pets or cytologist making cytology mobs or roboticist making borgs/posibrain mechs you 100% have every right to lynch whoever buys the shuttle.



Unironically, luxury shuttle can be bought to hard counter nukies (cant blow it up), malf ai, kudzu, spiders, xenos, void heretic spells (their teleport abilities dont work on shuttle so pretty much your entire kit that is designed around combat is useless), cultists (teleport hand and rune doesnt work anywhere on the shuttle so you cant use it to gather more sacrifices for last minute summon), experimental teleporter (traitor item) and probably more im missing.


TLDR: Its not the paywall, 500 credits isnt that much, its the mechanics that force the paywall or the lack of ability for certain types of entities to even be able to pay.

>grab pet
>pick up pet
>put pet in bag
unless luxury stops you because you have a pet in your bag

[HeyHey]

L

[san7890]

I've been talking about adjusting the balance on the luxury shuttle with several miscellaneous people in my capacity as a maptainer over the last year or so, and I think I've hit a head with it. As such after consulting with my fellow headmins (none of my fellow maptainers reached out with objections to it), I'm going to be disabling this map configwise as that is an option allocated to server operators.

The reason why I feel so strongly about this shuttle was an experience I had back in July/August of last year, where this shuttle was purchased. Through some method of luck (playing a Head of Staff), I managed to be one of the few who made it into the first class section. As the shuttle was in transit, the "poor section" exploded... and I immediately felt a profound amount of sadness. I was only protected from death (in a time when it didn't matter) because I managed to accrue 500 credits and was just sitting at a table. No one else around me was really speaking or laughing about how they were rich and protected, and I really thought "Damn, I wish I had died in that explosion!" Death/losing is fun to me, and I wish I had been turned into gibs on that shuttle so I can jokingly mald over it in deadchat, rather than just really sit in silence for the last few minutes of the shift. Granted, a lot of it would have been what I could have made out of it (e.g.: roleplaying being rich), but I really felt like a lot of magic was drained out of it when I realized that I was in an imprenetrable-to-everything box.

There's been murmurs of reworking it in the mapping scene, but no one has ever fully proposed an alternative. Some ideas that might be nice would be:

• Having a sparse shuttle that you have to purchase amenities in.
• Ensmallening the "rich" section further (I don't really like this because I think having an imprenetrable-anything is so injurious to what I like about this sandbox game)

I like some aspects about the shuttle like being able to laugh at poor people while you swallow down Foie Gras, but the imprenetrability of is just way too rigid for my tastes (I like a lack of rigidity in my maps, personally). I think any rework would be an improvement, but I doubt people will ever get started on a rework until something compels them to do it (like having it be removed from the servers).

I believe it should not be re-added until it has had a proper rework approved code-side/map-side that is not as injurious to the round (derailing everything to focus on MONEY so you can sit in the hugboxed balance-skewed imprenetrable box for five minutes), as well as something that I just don't like conceptually as someone who has been tasked with staring at maps. As the game grows, we have to keep going back in a self-fulfilling cycle of making the imprenetrable box even more imprenetrable, and I don't like this feedback loop that continues ad nauseum (and I'm already quite sick of it, see https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... 1378263566)

Another stipulation that I might be okay with is making this shuttle locked behind an emag, because I think compacting everyone into the poor's compartment just so you can annihilate them with a bomb is fun. I do personally want to see more design-wise thought put into it before it comes back, though.

Small Summary:
- If you want the shuttle back as-is, it should be locked behind an emag. (would be even nicer if emag-locked shuttles were a config itself so I wouldn't have to remove it fully)
- If the shuttle were to be reworked (strongly supportive of this), it should remain in the general shuttle purchase catalog.

Of course, future headmin terms can think otherwise and re-enable it at will. It would be appreciated if they reach out to maptainers/maintainers regarding this should that come up- but it's ultimately whatever since it's your ship.

I explain my methologies from the "design" aspect a bit better here: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... 1404617590