Ban Max Fattkins From HoP

[Falamazeer]

Your byond account: Falamazeer
Your character name:
Their character name: Max Fattkins
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Tolstovskiy
Server and time:

Logs and/or screenshots:

Spoiler:

This is Max Fattkins!
He is wearing a head of personnel's jumpsuit.
He is wearing a head of personnel's cap on his head.
He is wearing an armor.
He is carrying an energy gun on his armor.
He has a satchel on his back.
He is holding a folder in his left hand.
He has PDA-Max Fattkins (Head of Personnel) about his waist.
He is wearing some brown shoes on his feet.
He has a sunglasses covering his eyes.
He has the head of personnel's headset on his ears.
He is wearing Max Fattkins's ID Card (Head of Personnel).
*---------*
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "Say Max, I need access"
You remove the ID from the PDA-Ziggy Two-Shoes (Assistant).
Max Fattkins says, "Here's the form, start beggin heads"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "Got a cyborg upload, I need access to blow them"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "Dude, Ai is nuts"
Ziggy Two-Shoes asks, "Are you fucking kidding?"
Max Fattkins says, "Hm"
Max Fattkins says, "I wasn't infromed"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "I just fought my way clear of a sec borg, you JUST watched a janiborg fuck the hallways"
Ziggy Two-Shoes asks, "Are you blind, or intentionally being fucking stupid?"
Max Fattkins says, "Yeah, these cries seems to be true"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "Give me my access"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "The radio is also dead"
Ziggy Two-Shoes has thrown the paper- 'Additional Access '.
Max Fattkins says, "I'd say security can manage"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "Make it happen"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "Dude, I have the board right here"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "My god, you are dense."
Max Fattkins asks, "Well, why the hell did you steal it instead of letting security do their job?"
Ziggy Two-Shoes exclaims, "Are you shitting me? they are DEAD!"
Max Fattkins exclaims, "Go give it to nearest officer!"
Ziggy Two-Shoes exclaims, "Go look at the brig!"
Harry Dresden stammers, "F-Fuc-c-ck-k-k-k"
Ziggy Two-Shoes exclaims, "GO LOOK AT THE BRIG!!!"
Harry Dresden stammers, "H-Hey-y H-HOP-P! F-F-F-Fuc-c y-y-y-you."
Max Fattkins says, "Nah, I don't want to leave my post"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "You got ONE warden left last I checked, do your fucking job"
Max Fattkins says, "I'm doing it all right"
Ziggy Two-Shoes exclaims, "This station is dying, Now let me fix this!"
Greenesmells presses a button on the Nuclear Fission Explosive toy
Max Fattkins asks, "Just some assitant?"
Max Fattkins says, "I don't think so"
Ziggy Two-Shoes exclaims, "I HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THIS STATION NOT GOING NUCLEAR SAME AS YOU!"
Max Fattkins says, "I didn't get any orders from captain to give everybody who asks access for no reason"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "Just RD access, just that, enough to stop the borgs"
Max Fattkins says, "Just give the board to scientists, I wouldn't want to you to raid RD's office"
Max Fattkins says, "See"
Max Fattkins says, "Sec officer"
Max Fattkins says, "Let me through"
Ziggy Two-Shoes says, "You are handing this fucking station to the AI"

Description of what happened:
His OOC key is Tolstovskiy, He plays Max Fatkins, and every round he plays HoP he will not do anything without triple stamped approvals from other heads, it's getting old, and it ruins rounds, he doesn't care what is happening around him, and won't even lift a finger to do his job unless you make him

During this, we both watched assistants and other slipping, as a janiborg blew by spraying everything, and he was unfased by the realities around him.
The radio was dead, the captain was dead, engineering was eaten, sec borgs were murdering, and I couldn't do shit about it, because I couldn't blow the motherfucking borgs.

Why they should be banned:
This is dereliction of duty on its highest level, The only difference between what he does, and the people who just log out when in important posistions, is that he cannot be replaced easily.
Job-ban from HoP until he learns to pay attention to the radio and respond.

[Allohsnackbar]

I was Harry Dresden, the Chaplain, who swore out the HOP after getting slipped by space lube about 4 times, which was sprayed by a Janiborg right in front of him.
Earlier in that round, I wanted him to change my job name to Jedi Master, which he refused to do because I couldn't "Do any force tricks"
When the captain came in, he brokered a compromise after being ordered to change it, with me deciding instead to be a Jedi Knight so the captain would agree. The second the captain left, he was like "oh, I changed my mind" and changed my job name to "Padavan"
Overall seems to be deliberately giving peole a hard time, with paperwork and refusals to do harmless job name changes without being a dick.

[Amelius]

It's true, he does ask for stamped papers all the time, everytime, and roleplays as an overbeauracratic HoP. That's perfectly fine, however. Hell, granting access to security, engineering, or science without asking the heads in some manner is proof of a shitty HoP (minus during emergencies) - either by asking for a stamp or contacting them yourself. At least in the former case, you give traitors / antagonists the opportunity to steal the stamp or spawn one, and profit from it, so the former is 'better' for rewarding usage of a very rarely used item by all but perhaps the clown.

Asking for stamps from all 3 departments in order to get research access is abject lunacy, however. Anyone with that access can and should be able to have their stamp count, and those that don't are irrelevant. Why does the CE need to stamp a paper for someone to have R&D access? Denying harmless titlechanges is just being a cunt though, but, again, he isn't obligated to give you them in the first place, only granting and removing access with any sort of security measures he wishes to emplace. If it was a nuke ops or blob round, he isn't obligated to hand out all-access to everyone, and, in a similar sense, he isn't obligated to give you R&D access if the AI is rogue.

I suppose it might be nice to note that he plays HoP all the time, so that sort of behaviour gets pretty tiresome after a while. Still very valid, as is an overbeauracratic QM that does the same, imho, though. His job is to ensure that everyone who acquires additional access is both permitted it, and that it is reasonably safe to do so - not to act like an access pez-dispenser for validhunters.

[Ahammer18]

1. Okay, so I edited in all of your info into the actual template, rather than deleting it and telling you re-do it. (Any additional info that you could add would be great)

2. Nothing here warrants a jobban. He didn't really do anything that violates da rules of da server.

[lumipharon]

This seems to go from 'roleplaying bureaucracy', to rule 1 'being a dick', when he's going out of his way to allow borgs (that he can apparently see) to murder people and shit, by not letting them get blown/locked down.
That's really just fucking people over 'because lel'.

[Timbrewolf]

Concurring with Ahammer. This is stuff that could be resolved in-character by talking to the Captain and trying to get him fired and replaced.

If the station is going to hell and the HoP isn't giving you access to something, put on your big boy pants and go break in. The RD's office has a ton of glass windows around it purposely to make it easier to break into in such situations.

One person says he is ignoring the other heads to give out access whenever he feels like it and another person says he makes people go get stamps from everyone? Which is it?

As long as he isn't:

1) Giving everyone all access like crazy
2) Making a ton of clowns/mimes
3) Flooding people into other departments without asking
4) Usurping the captain's authority constantly

...then he's not really doing anything wrong. He can be a HoP and decide not to give anyone access to anything. That's his choice as the guy with that job.

"Not giving me all access during malf" is not interfering with you. There are other avenues that might be more difficult to pursue but are still open to you. Just because he see's one rogue borg does not mean he suddenly has to start giving everyone access like crazy.

[lumipharon]

Pretty sure blowing borgs is access restricted. Either that or OP, judging form the logs, believed so.

[Timbrewolf]

Pretty sure blowing borgs is access restricted. Either that or OP, judging form the logs, believed so.

It turns out you do need access to the terminal to do it now. I'll look into this some more. If OP can post the day/time when this happened I'll dig up logs of their conversation.

[Allohsnackbar]

Happened earlier today, 1-2 PM?

[Jeb]

Concurring with Ahammer. This is stuff that could be resolved in-character by talking to the Captain and trying to get him fired and replaced.

The radio was dead, the captain was dead, engineering was eaten, sec borgs were murdering, and I couldn't do shit about it, because I couldn't blow the motherfucking borgs.

[Timbrewolf]

I was referring to the rest of the complaints. During a normal round if he's being stingy with access you should talk to the Captain about it.

In a crisis situation where the Captain dies, the HoP becomes the acting captain. He was in charge and decided not to give a particular player access he wanted that could've helped the situation. I can't say for sure whether he was purposely aiding the AI by preventing people from getting access, whether he just did a poor job as the HoP in this case, or if he had perhaps already given someone else access to get that same thing done without looking into the logs.

I'll look into that.

[baverage]

I have also had bad experiences with Max Fattkins as HoP and I would absolutely say that how he plays HoP reaches the level of a rule 1 "Don't be a dick" violation. I mean the only suggested (and not always viable) work around to him denying important access changes in emergencies is smashing into places? Is that really the kind of behavior that should be okay? And he can be very petty with denying simple access/title changes for no real reason or without excessive work from the player.

Playing HoP badly can have a huge effect on many players round and fun, I mean isn't there a policy thread discussing how HoP needs to be held to a higher standard going right now with 70% of people saying yes? This is a prime example of why, because a bad HoP like him can bring down the whole station. A bad HoP isn't just one who gives out all access, one who doesn't give out reasonable access changes for no real reason is just as bad.

I think a good benchmark is whether or not other people's rounds would be better if this person was not playing and in every round I've played with him the answer is yes. The only difference between having him and no HoP at all is with him you have more frustrated players (and in some cases rounds ruined, like in OP) and no chance of getting a real HoP.

[AdenAbrafo]

I've ran into Max IC as well. He does the aforementioned things every time he is the HoP and he gives just about everyone a difficult time, even after they've run around to get the three stamps. Usually when HoPs do stuff like this it should stay an IC issue but he's signing up as HoP often and going out of his way to be a dick to everyone. The three stamp thing is ridiculous and makes no sense if not to just screw people over for the sake of screwing people over.

Concurring with Ahammer. This is stuff that could be resolved in-character by talking to the Captain and trying to get him fired and replaced.

2. Nothing here warrants a jobban. He didn't really do anything that violates da rules of da server.

Usually going to the Captain in-character can work but that is assuming the Captain is proactive, not a total knob and living. I'd also beg to differ about him not violating the server rules as he is being a dick basically every round.
There's also this, and from what everyone is reporting it seems to be exactly what he is doing.

Repeatedly wrecking havoc on other players' experience without otherwise contributing anything of actual value to the game will not be tolerated.

[tolstovskiy]

Regarding round OP talking: I think it's clear from conversation that I wanted him to cooperate with security instead of trying to be "one man army". I asked him to give board to security, which he refused saying that they're all dead, which was a lie(intentional or unintentional, ask OP) because hos was running circles in hallways and by the end of conversation there was a sec officer in the line. I granted the officer all access and informed him about board that OP claimed to have. I had no information about any dead heads and I tend not to trust the words of assistants asking for access. I DID realize that it was real malf AI round during our conversation cause I've spent whole shift in my office and comms turned out to be dead all this time(janiborg using lube in front of my office).

Regarding my play style as HoP: I use two types of forms, for Additional Access and Transfer. Both forms just need signature and stamp from affected head of department, i.e. you just need to come up to CE ask him if he allows you to become engineer then ask him to sign and stamp the form, there I even ignore obviously forged forms if it's crafty enough. The only time when you have to run around asking all heads is when you ask for all access, even in that case you can just get captain to sign and I always inform people about it. Sec always get maint from me without forms, and on low sec pop rounds they get access to departments. Transfer to cargo and service department is form-free. I usually stop using forms when there's red alert or just bad situation but i still won't give you all access on blob rounds cause AI can just bolt open armory and way to blob for you(and Good AI always does that).

The only people that get butthurt about the forms are the ones that don't have time to interact with other players cause they need access for validhunting and such. People should also finally realize that heads can give access to their department. Of course, if you just want to make grenade in chemistry and run away, good luck convincing CMO.

[Falamazeer]

That wasn't the HoS, it was the warden, the last man alive from the team that I was aware of, And even during normal shift times it's fucking impossible to get you to do your damn job, I've in the past asked for a transfer, and you told me to get stamps, and refuse to use the command radio for its intended purpose.

The only transfer I ever got from you, or access change of any kind was when I insisted I be under your direct command, Chef, botany, clown, mime, janitor, or bartender. So I wouldn't have to go get a fucking stamp.

You routinely do this, And changing situations do not seem to affect you, as you continue to be a pencil pushing asshat.
The most frustrating part is that you won't use the command line to ask, It's easy for a HoP to get ahold of the other heads, but it's more difficult for an assistant.

Jobban he post-haste

Also, sorry for not following the format, I don't FNR all that often as OP.

Edit: Oh, and for additional information, the round was about 20 minutes before my original post, But this has been an ongoing problem, He consistently does this, every round I've ever seen him play HoP, I bitched about it OOC after round on the first time I had to deal with him, and was told that if I see max in HoP line, just keep walking, so apparently he'd been doing it even longer than I had seen.

[Bombadil]

I was the RD that round i wasn't aware I failed to blow the janiborg but HoP is worthless

[mikecari]

I honestly have nothing wrong with Max Fattkins. He's a good head of personnel, albeit a bit bureaucratic, but at least he cares enough to not let clowns and greyshits run around with all access. I'd rather have him as the head of personnel rather than one of the aforementioned assholes. He's given me access to places before because I gave him a good reason to, which is what all the complainers in this thread should do instead of trying to bash his skull in. You nerds need to learn how to talk to people rather than validhunting all day.

[Kangaraptor]

I honestly have nothing wrong with Max Fattkins. He's a good head of personnel, albeit a bit bureaucratic, but at least he cares enough to not let clowns and greyshits run around with all access. I'd rather have him as the head of personnel rather than one of the aforementioned assholes. He's given me access to places before because I gave him a good reason to, which is what all the complainers in this thread should do instead of trying to bash his skull in. You nerds need to learn how to talk to people rather than validhunting all day.

You realise the core of this complaint is Max refusing to give out access that was necessary in an emergency, right?

Which is not okay no matter how you spin it.

[Ikarrus]

It depends. Just because it's malf or blob doesn't mean you can suddenly meta trust everyone so you can maximize your win potential. On the other hand if the HoP is outright denying any and all access requests, that is worth talking to if it's done in excess.

Bu as far as I'm concerned, asking people to go theough an excessively buteaucratic process is the same as outright denial, and is something I nyself do frequently to people who can't take "no" for an answer.

[Kangaraptor]

It depends. Just because it's malf or blob doesn't mean you can suddenly meta trust everyone so you can maximize your win potential. On the other hand if the HoP is outright denying any and all access requests, that is worth talking to if it's done in excess.

Bu as far as I'm concerned, asking people to go theough an excessively buteaucratic process is the same as outright denial, and is something I nyself do frequently to people who can't take "no" for an answer.

It's not about 'meta-trust', it's about any sane individual realising that even if x is your enemy, it's also in x's best interest to help you fight the big bad blob or big bad AI because if that big baddie wins, everybody else loses. AI wins? You get a face full of nuke, blob wins? You're turned into biomass. While I can agree (and, hell, I like to see it) with the idea of being a bureaucratic HOP, I don't agree with ANY HOP going out of their way to work against people trying to help save the station in what is essentially a life or death situation for anybody and everybody on the station.

Strictly from an RP perspective, preventing people from helping the station is working against NT and, from a rules perspective, trying to obstruct people from helping the station in a time of crisis in such a way as a non-antag shouldn't be allowed. Hell, what's next? Tazing and arresting an assistant for taking the captain's ID off his corpse to try and chase down the nukeops that just stole the disk is okay 'because it's not okay to meta-trust people'? Because that's basically what's going on here. Besides, we let everybody meta just about anything else barring getting info from observers, so why is the line going to suddenly be drawn here?

[Ikarrus]

OP, falamazeer isn't even your BYOND key.

In any case, I don't feel that this ban request is compelling enough to warrant a ban from me.

[Falamazeer]

He's done it many many times since then, and continues to do it in any situation, Make an effort next time you think about it to go through his line if you should notice.

Also, Who cares if my byond key isn't my forum name? I made my byond key in 2011, And we've wiped forums since then, Twice.
I'd change my byond key to match, but then I'd have to ask for a note transfer, and it just seems like effort not worth spending.
If it helps, byond key is wootanon. though I don't see why it should matter.

[peoplearestrange]

Closing request as both headmins have commented to say it's going no where.

PM if this was unfinished or done in error etc.