Make drones more available

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:14 pm #62427

I think we should remove drone shells from robotics, and just give them a little port to click in robotics that automatically makes them.
Waiting for someone to get the research AND to give enough of a shit to make them is annoying. They are harmless, and it allows people to continue to play after death.

deathOPplsnerf

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:18 pm #62430

>harmless

I wish.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:22 pm #62432

Reaaaaaalllyyy, someone shooould go back and look at the mommi thread, I think it had some really good ideas about how to keep them in check while making them available to everyone

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:52 pm #62445

Or the mice from bay.

Gloriously questing for cheeze.

But in what way are drones harmful? they are not allowed to interfere!

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:04 pm #62451

The ease of access and the """""""""""""VAGUE""""""""""""" laws don't stop an enormous amount of people from doing stupid shit like dragging bodies on/off the escape shuttle, uploading AI laws, firing lasers down the hallway, walling off hallways...

Snakebutt · Post by **Snakebutt** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:05 pm #62452

Harmful from shitlers badly interpreting laws. Harmful from stealing everything not nailed down.

Balut · Post by **Balut** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:12 pm #62454

Sounds like bans and badmin overseeing are in order?

Also mousemode would be pretty fucking awesome.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:14 pm #62455

Oh don't get me wrong, I love banning drones. It makes me feel like a big guy.

Post by **Vekter** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:30 pm #62658

Adminhelp people being stupid asshole as drones please~

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:26 pm #62692

Yeah, the rules are actually less vague than even the AI laws if you could just define being officially.
I've been assuming "being" is lizards Humans, Cyborgs and AI.
So.. everything that can be player operated, don't fuck with it in any way, dead simple.

And if you don't want to have to enforce it after it has become widely available, limit players to ONE drone per round, and make it so that players walking over a drone cause it damage, that'll keep them out of the fray, and in the maintenance hallways!

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:30 pm #62695

Falamazeer wrote:I've been assuming "being" is lizards Humans, Cyborgs and AI.
So.. everything that can be player operated, don't fuck with it in any way, dead simple.

Still incorrect. Ian is a being, mice are beings, constructs are beings, the blob is a being.

If its not the station itself or another drone, just don't mess with it.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:31 pm #62697

Wait, drones cannot hunt down mice?

I never thought I'd say this, but now their Bayquivalents are actually more fun.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:39 pm #62699

Ok then Saegrimr, that makes sense too, But what about the idea of people crushing them with their feet?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:40 pm #62700

Sounds more annoying than anything, but it would keep them out of the primary halls for sure. I'd give it a threshold like 2-3 steps.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:42 pm #62708

Yeah, I was thinking 2-3 squishes, And maybe slow them down a little so they can be handle IC easily.

Basically nerf, Then make it much more available to anyone.
People have asked for something to do after death since the beginning of time, This seems workable, so why make it cost resources and time to bring someone who got ganked back in?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:55 pm #62709

Its kind of a recent thing to be catering to the dead. Sure we picked ghosts for random admin dickery and spawning in threats, but to just be able to jump back into the round and affect it significantly at will is huge. Also a huge responsibility to not go metagrudge the dude that killed you and stuffed the body somewhere.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:26 pm #62718

That used to be the problem with borging and cloning too.
Has that actually happened? Someone being a drone to dick with their murderer?

The worst I've seen was a drone helping sec by forcefeeding holy water to cultists.
And that got handled via PMs telling him to stop I believe.

Balut · Post by **Balut** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:12 pm #62781

That sounds like some intense drone-ban action.

Also I still want Space Valhalla.

Post by **Vekter** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:54 am #62912

I don't see why they need a nerf when everything you've brought up is all actionable with a drone ban.

If someone is violating the drone laws (Don't fuck with anything that's not a drone, don't harm anything, fix the station), we can ban them. We shouldn't be nerfing because people are breaking a rule, we should be cracking down on law violations.

A being is LITERALLY ANYTHING that moves that isn't a drone. If it's a mob and not a drone, don't fuck with it. Plain and simple.

Snakebutt · Post by **Snakebutt** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:50 am #62928

how about a drone awareness day on the station, on an extended/slow round admins spawn like 20 drones in the vault for ghosts to use. If it turns into an absolute nightmare with several bannings, we shouldn't do this. If it goes surprisingly well with some kind of super autism castle/station branching off the main one, maybe the playerbase can handle having free use of drones and we can figure out a way for them to be available.

soulgamer · Post by **soulgamer** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:50 am #62929

Vekter wrote:I don't see why they need a nerf when everything you've brought up is all actionable with a drone ban.

If someone is violating the drone laws (Don't fuck with anything that's not a drone, don't harm anything, fix the station), we can ban them. We shouldn't be nerfing because people are breaking a rule, we should be cracking down on law violations.

A being is LITERALLY ANYTHING that moves that isn't a drone. If it's a mob and not a drone, don't fuck with it. Plain and simple.

Pretty sure simple bots dont count as beings

>cue drones killing beepsky and medbots every round

Post by **Jacquerel** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:16 am #62955

Nobody would actually have a leg to stand on if they tried to appeal being banned for killing beepsky as a drone though, the tg rules are for the spirit of the law not the letter for that exact reason.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:23 am #62977

plus those ARE beings
drones are only sentient in an ooc sense, IC they basically have the mental capacity of beepsky
but drones are counted as beings, which is why there needs to be an exception so they can interact

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:08 pm #63108

Also, "Interfere"
Would it be a violation to follow people to creep them out? but do nothing in no way to interact with them besides that?
Or to follow the HoS playing Darth vaders theme on the violin just for the laugh?

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:15 pm #63112

The moment their behaviour changes as a direct result of an action you have taken, I think, you have interfered.

Not by rules definition, though.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:30 pm #63244

Falamazeer wrote:Also, "Interfere"
Would it be a violation to follow people to creep them out? but do nothing in no way to interact with them besides that?
Or to follow the HoS playing Darth vaders theme on the violin just for the laugh?

by actively acknowledging their existence you are interfering with them
youre supposed to act as if the only living things in the universe are drones and only drones, everything else is invisible to you and you should go out of your way to avoid contact

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:03 pm #63403

The problem might stem from thinking of drones in AI terms. Drones are not AIs. Drone chat aside, they are not sentient. They have "laws" because that's the only real way to direct player behavior, but otherwise they are machines. Mindless repair machinery. Would your alarm clock chase you around? Does your radiator acknowledge your existence?

Post by **Jacquerel** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:07 pm #63405

just think of drones as glorified roombas and you should have the right idea

Not-Dorsidarf · Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:37 pm

The above, but subract "Glorified".

You're a roomba with a toolbox.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:03 pm #63456

Ok, All fair points, Thank you.

As I have found no way, Am I correct in assuming the laws are unchangeable for drones?

Remie Richards · Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:07 pm

miggles wrote:everything else is invisible to you and you should go out of your way to avoid contact

While good, that's also a little bit contradictory, if you're actively avoiding them, you are ALSO acknowledging their existence.

Rough guide:
Human walks past you
You do not stop what you are doing and run
You do not stop what you are doing to interact with this thing
if it picks you up, you walk back to where you were working and continue working

Vigilare · Post by **Vigilare** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:14 pm #63463

so can you not kill space carp as a drone

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:17 pm #63476

Falamazeer wrote:Also, "Interfere"
Would it be a violation to follow people to creep them out? but do nothing in no way to interact with them besides that?
Or to follow the HoS playing Darth vaders theme on the violin just for the laugh?

Maybe here's a better approach to drone laws, ask yourself: are you building, maintaining or repairing the station? If no, don't do it and fucking get back to building, maintaining or repairing!

If these things are really so hard to cope for many people, I think we should cut the fluff on drone laws and just change them to:
1. You can ONLY build, maintain and repair the station.
2. Don't fucking do ANYTHING ELSE than build, maintain and repair the station.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:22 pm #63524

Well, They have been declared actionable by admins, so can coders perhaps consider making them more widely available? or more ways of playing after death? space Valhalla, Mouse quest for cheese, Drones, etc etc

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:25 pm #63527

Falamazeer wrote: Or to follow the HoS playing Darth vaders theme on the violin just for the laugh?

I dearly, dearly wish to do this now.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:36 pm #63532

I don't think anybody would really complain about a drone playing a violin, unless you stole it from someone.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:16 pm #63547

Vigilare wrote:so can you not kill space carp as a drone

No. You cannot kill space carp as a drone. This also goes for xenos, slimes, space clowns, Ian, ANY BEING. How is this hard to understand?

ThanatosRa · Post by **ThanatosRa** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:32 pm #63553

I still don't feel bad about the rare times I play... because I always try to push for R&D to research for drones, so I, as a roboticist, can start pumping out drones.

JJRcop · Post by **JJRcop** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:53 pm #63561

Maybe getting rid of laws and instead re-writing the rules in an OOC manner would be a good idea.
Like, this is what I was thinking:

You are a maintenance drone, a pre-programmed "weak AI" robot designed to maintain and repair the station, improve if you choose, to the best of your ability.
You can NOT:
Interfere with other players, or mobs, the exception is other drones.
Attempt to expressly assist anyone in accomplishing whatever they set out to do, your only priority is the condition of the station.

These rules will be enforced by game admins and moderators.

That's what I'm thinking, it could be worded differently, I guess.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:40 am #63688

I did once suggest making it so that drones can not see other mobs, not sure if its possible to do this whilst still letting them see other drones though.

Remie Richards · Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:04 pm

Malkevin wrote:I did once suggest making it so that drones can not see other mobs, not sure if its possible to do this whilst still letting them see other drones though.

if Ninja code produced one good thing, it's probably how to display atoms/mobs to only one or specific mobs. (This is used for the Ninja AI Hologram)
If this was added however, I'd probably remove the ability for humans to pick them up, because it suddenly becomes completely unfair.

Post by **Jacquerel** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:10 pm #63785

I think making humans invisible to drones just opens up a world of "oh I didn't know someone was using that tool I grabbed off the table, I just thought it was free for use

"

Somejerk · Post by **Somejerk** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:47 pm #63799

Jacquerel wrote:I think making humans invisible to drones just opens up a world of "oh I didn't know someone was using that tool I grabbed off the table, I just thought it was free for use "

Shouldn't drones have that thought process anyways?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:01 pm #63851

Jacquerel wrote:I think making humans invisible to drones just opens up a world of "oh I didn't know someone was using that tool I grabbed off the table, I just thought it was free for use "

That's literally what should happen

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:05 pm #63872

>drones are being rampantly abused by lots of people
>ask to make them even more available to everyone
>"Lol admins just do your jobs and crack down on the bad ones"

We're doing our jobs by protesting this change.
The overwhelming majority of people don't understand what they're supposed to be doing as drones.
I've even seen other admins fuck it up. People use drones as a second life to run around the station goofing off messing with other players and only rarely for their intended use.

If drones were an experiment or temporary addition I would say so far they've failed. People have been abusing them rather than using them as intended.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:08 pm #63873

kosmos wrote:
If these things are really so hard to cope for many people, I think we should cut the fluff on drone laws and just change them to:
1. You can ONLY build, maintain and repair the station.
2. Don't fucking do ANYTHING ELSE than build, maintain and repair the station.

It's this. It's not hard.

1) Fix things.
2) If there is nothing here to fix go look for things to fix.

Do not collect hats, do not draw shit on the floors, do not build additions to the station, do not "upgrade" things, do not choose a person on the station to buddy up with...

You're a semi-autonomous repair bot. If you are not repairing things you should be finding things to repair. If you are not entertained doing those two things exclusively do not jump into a drone chassis.

Razharas · Post by **Razharas** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:49 pm #63882

Their laws say impove the station, notion that they should not upgrade things like machinery directly contradicts with their laws(in fact scientist upgrade machines outside science so rarely i fully support drones doing it)
And i dont think drones bring too much problems, im on sybil obsing every day for considerable amount of time and compared to usual player abuse drones are pretty much non-existant

Somejerk · Post by **Somejerk** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:18 am #64374

An0n3 wrote:
kosmos wrote:
If these things are really so hard to cope for many people, I think we should cut the fluff on drone laws and just change them to:
1. You can ONLY build, maintain and repair the station.
2. Don't fucking do ANYTHING ELSE than build, maintain and repair the station.
It's this. It's not hard.

1) Fix things.
2) If there is nothing here to fix go look for things to fix.

Do not collect hats, do not draw shit on the floors, do not build additions to the station, do not "upgrade" things, do not choose a person on the station to buddy up with...

You're a semi-autonomous repair bot. If you are not repairing things you should be finding things to repair. If you are not entertained doing those two things exclusively do not jump into a drone chassis.

3. Your goals are to build, maintain, repair, improve, and power to the best of your abilities, You must never actively work against these goals.

Is this law going to change if you don't want us to do that when we decide to play drones?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:42 pm #64381

As long as there's a drone console with the drone fabricator that anyone can use to blow the fuck up out of drones that are assholes, sure.

soulgamer · Post by **soulgamer** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:57 pm #64390

We need a Drone Master Control Console that does three things.

1. Shows the location of every drone and what they are holding
2. Allows you to remote deactivate drones individually (no mass deactivating)
3. Allows you to send a message to all drones such as "Robotics is in need of reapair" or "The station requires an additional cloner" so as to direct drone work.

Make the board printable from R&D with the same tech requirements to build drones. Maybe let the AI do this by default? I also think that at high levels of research you should be able to make a Drone Fabricator that you load with materials and when a ghost clicks it places them into a drone. Sort of a set it and forget it machine for roboticists.

Now if only we can have regenerating sheets of metal and glass for drones so they dont have to loot stuff to get it. Anymore I just end up gathering crates from maint and dragging them to cargo. I then order crates of supplies for drones with the points gathered.