[MRP] Kill gun cargo once and for all

[vkalls]

Bottom post of the previous page:

What is gun cargo?
Gun cargo is when a non antag player mass purchases guns from cargo without any real reason. Sometimes it can include declaring independence or shooting antags or people they generally dislike, but it doesn't have to.
What is wrong with gun cargo?
Cargo mass ordering guns and distributing them throughout the department, or even just one person, makes it a lot harder to do things to cargo as an antag. It also leads to validhunting or cargo personnel "accidentally" coming upon an antag and blasting them. It's also arguably powergaming, as they are prepping for a hypothetical threat they do not know exists yet.
How can these issues be solved?
There are two main ways to solve gun cargo, you can either flat out ban non-antags from mass ordering guns without any real reason or you can force or rely on security in game to solve these issues by arresting cargo who order guns in unwarranted situations. Option 1 may seem like a boring and restrictive solution, but I believe it is a necessary solution, because option two has not worked much of the time to this point. I see plenty of rounds where security does try to arrest cargo for ordering guns, which normally results in a raid and people in cargo self antagging. However, I also see many rounds where security does nothing and cargo runs rampant with guns, sometimes even distributing them to the crew.
What I want from this thread.
Personally, I want to see gun cargo defined as powergaming in the rules. Some admins enforce it under powergaming rules, some don't. I've had admins tell me both that it isn't powergaming until cargo uses the guns and that cargo shouldn't order guns at all. I personally don't agree with having to use security to deal with these issues. About 50% of the time, security won't do anything about it, or they will get shot at and have a whole situation with gun cargo. While conflict does breed RP, I think gun cargo is ultimately harmful to the RP and environment of the round. Antags should drive conflict, not non-antags. I also don't think we should FORCE security to deal with this type of situation. Let me know what you think or if you have any better solutions.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Played a few cargo rounds today, guns ordered 2/4 rounds (Once classic guncargo, once to make a gunshop). was good fun.

[Armhulen]

Played a few cargo rounds today, guns ordered 2/4 rounds (Once classic guncargo, once to make a gunshop). was good fun.

That seems like a fine ratio esp. since gunshop is pretty unique

[Farquaar]

Played a few cargo rounds today, guns ordered 2/4 rounds (Once classic guncargo, once to make a gunshop). was good fun.

Please tell me that the gunshop was like this when security came

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Sadly the gunshop was still finalising its first sale when blob was called and the qm left me in charge before running off to fight it (I decided that not dying to a) blob and b) lynch mob for hoarding, was more important than charging for the rest.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Sadly the gunshop was still finalising its first sale when blob was called and the qm left me in charge before running off to fight it (I decided that not dying to a) blob and b) lynch mob for hoarding, was more important than charging for the rest.

QM picked the wrong replacement.

It was an emergency which means demand was going up!

[cacogen]

If you can't even trust cargo to be good capitalists with the guns they got by taking advantage of an easily exploited system then what is the point of the headmins allowing this to continue on MRP? And if that happened on an LRP server then it still applies because Manuel's userbase is of a similar standard at the moment

[Vekter]

Yeah, I don't really see this as an issue anymore. Guncargo is pretty rare with the recent changes and we already don't really allow it in cases where it gets out of hand. If Sec comes for the guns at cargo, cargo has to give them up.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

If Sec comes for the guns at cargo, cargo has to give them up.

cringe

[Not-Dorsidarf]

If Sec comes for the guns at cargo, cargo has to give them up.

I'll die before ill see this enforced, cargonia forever

[cacogen]

Security are such bullies about this as well. They just take the guns for themselves, regardless of whether cargo has done anything with them. I'm crying right now

[Domitius]

This thread seemed to have been auto-locked so opening the gates again for further discussion or until a formal response.

From personal experience if I have a cool weapon I look for an excuse to use it. Across a majority of our player base I see the same thing and honestly I completely understand, these are cool ass toys to muck around with. It is incredibly fun to unload a bolt action into somebody.

I believe there is space for gun cargo/cargonia to exist in MRP but only when it's done in a way that includes productive engagement with the rest of the station and isn't them just locking down. Honest attempts of the former style have been done incredibly successfully and in a great way but drawing the line between these two can be tough.

I don't know if this problem needs additional policy as the roleplay rules already cover bad faith attempts and the main rules already address that doing the same thing over and over can excuse an admin to step in and ask you to slow it down. If new policy were to be set I don't think it would solve anything honestly.

TL;DR:
-Existing policy covers bad gun cargo
-New policy would probably just change the problem and not solve anything
-If you love gun cargo memes genuinely try TGMC. Their cargo has a butt ton of guns and ammo and they are actively used which is really satisfying.

[RaveRadbury]

Policybus discussed this and the headmins made a ruling on it but the thread didn't get updated.

There should be an IC reason behind the decision to purchase guns, such as a traitor attacking cargo and should not be flimsy like, "We're bored". Gimmicks are still fine, provided they're done in good faith and aren't just a veiled excuse to valid hunt or distribute guns to the crew. Additionally, if security is confiscating your weaponry for a legitimate reason you can't just kill them, as that is them doing their job.

[Domitius]

Policybus discussed this and the headmins made a ruling on it but the thread didn't get updated.

There should be an IC reason behind the decision to purchase guns, such as a traitor attacking cargo and should not be flimsy like, "We're bored". Gimmicks are still fine, provided they're done in good faith and aren't just a veiled excuse to valid hunt or distribute guns to the crew. Additionally, if security is confiscating your weaponry for a legitimate reason you can't just kill them, as that is them doing their job.

Oh boy are my cheeks red now.

[Pandarsenic]

I feel like that policy call solves the real trauma I have about guncargo: When cargo declares "Guns for everyone" and sec goes "Fucking sweet, we'll come by to unlock the crates for you. What kinds did you get?"

[Jimmius]

Posting the ruling given by Coco in policybus just to close the thread:

There should be an IC reason behind the decision to purchase guns, such as a traitor attacking cargo and should not be flimsy like, "We're bored". Gimmicks are still fine, provided they're done in good faith and aren't just a veiled excuse to valid hunt or distribute guns to the crew. Additionally, if security is confiscating your weaponry for a legitimate reason you can't just kill them, as that is them doing their job.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.
Jimmius: Yes.